Payload Mk 11

[nowtelse2do]

Lot lighter materials used now, eg, plastic bumpers, aluminium wheels, lighter engines (not cast iron) NO SPARE WHEEL *-) etc.

 

Dave

[Guest pelmetman]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-12-04 7:00 PM

 

The rationale used was that a 4250kg motorhome was no less safe or difficult to drive than a 3500kg motorhome towing a 750kg unbraked trailer

 

It does seem logical that a 4250kg van would be safer, than towing the extra weight in a unbraked trailer :-S.................I ended up selling my braked box trailer as it exceeded my GTW, and replaced it with a unbraked trailer *-)............

 

Although I have had Horace's brakes completely overhauled with new cylinders ;-)

[donna miller]

Personally I can't see what all the fuss is about, if you need a larger payload, get a larger vehicle with a higher GVW. Providing you passed your test before 1997 and are under 70, then you are licenced to drive a vehicle (regardless of its purpose) up to 7500kg.

In my opinion (and that's all it is before anyone kicks off) nobody over the age of 70 should be driving anything over a standard 3500kg van anyway, whether for vocation or recreation.

With regards to tachographs, they only need fitting if the vehicle is used commercially, not for private use.

Now don't get me started on those people who believe they are ok driving a 12 tonne RV on a standard car licence (we'll keep that for a separate thread)

[bob b]

My Rapido is rated at 3300 GVW and I've been thinking of uprating it to 3500 GVW for a while now. I've fitted the Dunlop air suspension units to the rear axle, so presumably it would just be a 'paper exercise'.

Does anybody have an idea of the cost of such an exercise? 

[Guest JudgeMental]

bob b - 2012-12-04 7:26 PM

 

My Rapido is rated at 3300 GVW and I've been thinking of uprating it to 3500 GVW for a while now. I've fitted the Dunlop air suspension units to the rear axle, so presumably it would just be a 'paper exercise'.

Does anybody have an idea of the cost of such an exercise? 

 

it all depends.........these people will tell you over the phone. Have your V5 at hand when you call

 

http://www.svtech.co.uk/

[Mel B]

Another view is that if the 'cut-off' weight was increased from 3500kg to 4000kg say, what do you realistically think would happen? I think the manufacturers of motorhomes would rub their hands with glee and the unladen weight would increase as this would mean they wouldn't have to buy so much expensive 'light weight' materials etc to use in the construction of their motorhomes, but somehow I don't think that any money savings would be passed on to the customers ... so who, in reality, would benefit? :-S

[Mel B]

bob b - 2012-12-04 7:26 PM

 

My Rapido is rated at 3300 GVW and I've been thinking of uprating it to 3500 GVW for a while now. I've fitted the Dunlop air suspension units to the rear axle, so presumably it would just be a 'paper exercise'.

Does anybody have an idea of the cost of such an exercise? 

 

It would probably just be a paper exercise as you suggest, and cost around £260 or so, do the paperwork for SVTech and they'll let you know.

[colin]

Just to throw something else 'in the pot' and a bit of testing to wind up brian ;-)

 

I wonder how many overload their cars esp. with camping gear, I'm sure we must have been on (or over) the limit many times, how many have taken their car to be weighted do we think?

[rupert123]

bob b - 2012-12-04 7:26 PM

 

My Rapido is rated at 3300 GVW and I've been thinking of uprating it to 3500 GVW for a while now. I've fitted the Dunlop air suspension units to the rear axle, so presumably it would just be a 'paper exercise'.

Does anybody have an idea of the cost of such an exercise? 

 

Last year about £250 from SVtech. Phone them they are very helpfull and will tell you what they need.

[bob b]

Many thanks for the responses.

[crinklystarfish]

As has been said, and as per previous thread, people are generally free to drive whatever size and weight of vehicle they want.

 

The current regime of having to prove enhanced competence to drive anything over 3.5t seems fair enough to me, as I said before, there are plenty of people currently driving physically large trucks up to 7.5t who have only ever demonstrated competence in a car - this is abject nonsense.

 

If you want / need to drive over 3.5t and are currently doing so on grandad rights, you are fortunate.

 

Grandad rights but few grandad responsibilities.

 

If your 'van has insufficient payload, pick another, carry less useless clobber, up / downplate to suit needs and enjoy.

 

All free choices and all within a reasonable, workable, and harmonised legal framework. If you get to 70 and are 'forced' below 3.5t, is that really such a bad thing?

 

 

 

 

[derek pringle]

Hi Al,

Would it not make things easier if a minimum percentage payload was introduced. As is now you can buy a large motorhome with all the storage space in the world and yet by the time you get on board with your wife a great chunk of your payload is gone, I accept an allowance is made for driver but do not think a great percentage of drivers would be under that limit even. I believe the vehicle should have at least a minimum percentage payload so anybody and everybody would have a realistic idea of what they could at least carry. eg 3500 kg vehicle would have minimum of 525 kg if the limit was set at 12.5% and so on depending what % was decided upon. I do believe that other than forums like this payload is not discussed enough, particularly in dealers showrooms, where once an individual makes the mistake they can not go back.

This system would mean builders would have to look to modern lightweight materials for the manufacture but these things are out there.

cheers

derek

[crinklystarfish]

If people didn't buy 'vans with insufficient payload manufacturers wouldn't make them.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Unfortunately,it's as pointed out by the OP in the frozen thread...

A good many..

a) Aren't aware of the issue

 

or/and

 

b) Just don't care anyway!... :-S

 

We know someone who bought their first van a while back and prior to the purchase they'd asked for our advice and views.Payload was something I kept banging on about(..especially as they were a family of 5)..But you could almost see 'em, glazing over..They were far more interested in the colour of the curtains and cushions! *-)

They've ended up with a 7.5mtr+,UK manufactured overcab van,which has a ruddy great big tail overhang..

...and to this day,it hasn't been near a weighbridge!

 

I think a lot of people have a "..we fully load the car up..and we don't weigh that..so what's the problem..?" type of approach. :-S

 

(..of cause there's always the "..Oh..it doesn't apply to me.." or "..I won't get pulled..." ;-) )

 

[derek pringle]

crinklystarfish - 2012-12-05 9:57 AM

 

If people didn't buy 'vans with insufficient payload manufacturers wouldn't make them.

Hi,

I think this is part of the point I made in my post,that is , a lot of buyers do not know what payload they are buying when they make their purchase. Most people learn by experience/other peoples experience or simply mistakes and as we all know anything to with motorhoming is expensive so a certain amount of built in protection would be very useful, dont you agree.

cheers

derek

[pepe63xnotuse]

I must be honest,like a good many other "newbies",I was oblivious to the fact that "payloads" were an issue for MHs,until I started looking on forums.. :$

..and it's only since having our current van(which we've had for 3 years now,)that we've taken to checking "GVW" and axle loads...

 

With this in mind,I can't think of any valid reason why a dealer,shouldn't be able to display a "Weight in current trim" figure for the vehicles he is selling.

(...What with these portable "weighing pads" that are available,just how hard can it be for them to get their goods weighed,prior to putting them on sale?..).

 

Unless of cause,they don't want to risk getting lumbered with a ruck of MHs with unworkable payloads..? ;-)

 

 

 

 

[DuxDeluxe]

It would be nice to see every van on sale at a dealers put over a weighbridge so that real world weights can be seen/displayed but somehow I can't see this happening..... It might be a tad embarrassing and make some vans impossible to shift.

 

As before, I think that every van owner should put the van in loaded condition across the local public weighbridge (how hard is that?) and see if they are legal or not. We can debate the relevance of 3500kg or whatever max weight until the cows come home but it won't change the law in the foreseeable future, so we might as well comply with it or risk being prosecuted

[Guest JudgeMental]

Precisely...I think it madness to buy a van without weighing it. or reading a proper review where this is done...German mags very good at this, they even weigh each wheel so you know exactly what you are dealing with.... just have to add weight of specific extras which are normally in brochure anyway

 

if a dealer refuses to produce a weigh bridge ticket go elsewhere...You can buy the portable scales now for a few hundred pounds I believe, so there is no excuse really

[Rayjsj]

crinklystarfish - 2012-12-05 9:22 AM

 

As has been said, and as per previous thread, people are generally free to drive whatever size and weight of vehicle they want.

 

The current regime of having to prove enhanced competence to drive anything over 3.5t seems fair enough to me, as I said before, there are plenty of people currently driving physically large trucks up to 7.5t who have only ever demonstrated competence in a car - this is abject nonsense.

 

If you want / need to drive over 3.5t and are currently doing so on grandad rights, you are fortunate.

 

Grandad rights but few grandad responsibilities.

 

If your 'van has insufficient payload, pick another, carry less useless clobber, up / downplate to suit needs and enjoy.

 

All free choices and all within a reasonable, workable, and harmonised legal framework. If you get to 70 and are 'forced' below 3.5t, is that really such a bad thing?

 

 

 

 

It is if you have just bought a 'New' 3850kg Van which you intend to drive for many years (ie Spent the kids inheritance on it !).

[PCC]

The problem is that it's very easy to use up the payload. Lets imagine you're buying your dream motorhome and you want to accomodate 4 people:

 

180hp engine (50kg); air con (20kg); extra battery and solar (30kg); awning (30kg); a few other options say 20kg and thats 150kg gone just by ticking the options boxes.

 

Then we load it up with 4 people. The driver's included but let's say 150kg for the others. Plus personal effects say 50kg for everyone. That's another 200kg.

 

Did someone say bikes? Maybe 80kg. Food, wine etc, say 20kg. That's another 100kg, so we're up to 450kg. Add a bit more clutter and even with 500kg payload it's getting very close.

 

And what about the weight tolerance? That's supposed to be 5% of base weight, so a base weight of 3000kg could be up at 3150kg and the payload has been well and truly exceeded.

 

Lets face it, there aren't that many 3500kg motorhomes with a payload of more than 500kg and a lot have considerably less.

 

People with experience may well avoid the pitfalls, but I feel sorry for the inexperienced who buy at a show without any real understanding of the issues.

 

Peter

[DuxDeluxe]

You're right there. I got my first van without a clue about payloads and it wasn't until I started reading and participating on numerous forums that it dawned on me that there might be a problem. Luckily there wasn't but the rear axle was close fully loaded even with over 150kg to spare. Payload was a key feature to check on the new van. There was no real information on actual axles but I took a punt on the massive payload available overall and then weighed it fully loaded (fuel, gas, water in both tanks - worst case) with bikes on the Towbar not the bike carrier. Felt a bit smug with 400kg available at either end and a bit more overall so nothing to worry about.

 

As above, sadly I don't think that we will seeing a real time weighing at any dealers anytime soon but wouldn't it be great if they did. So easy with the portable wheel scales, as well. Thanks for keeping this thread on track as well.

[bob b]

I rang SV Tech earlier and the exercise costs £240.00 plus VAT. My rear axle is plated at 1900kgs and when uprated will then be plated at 2000 kgs, which is the maximum I can have. All of which makes me wonder if its going to be worth it.

I'm going to visit a weighbridge and see exactly what the situation is regarding my payload allowance. If its tight I'll probably have it done.

[Tony Jones]

Dealers certainly won't buy those portable scales (until customers start to insist on seeing weights for themselves as a condition of purchase - which won't happen anytime soon!)

 

And individual buyers won't spent a 3-figure sum on something they might only use once (at least, they'll hope so - no-one really wants to be running so close that you need to weigh every trip!).

 

So I wonder if there's a market for someone (possibly accessory makers, possibly clubs, or whoever) to buyu them and hire them out? That way, a prospective buyer could hire one for a few days and take it to the shows/dealers they visit.

 

Wouldn't THAT scare the salesmen!!!

[Guest JudgeMental]

surprised your considering uprating with out weighing it anyway..have you ever weighed it?

 

The rear axles can usually be OK its then front that reckes caopacity first in a lot of cases.

 

To be honest I weigh every van when I buy it (empty) and before every trip.

 

......................................

 

4 adults @ 3500kg a pretty tall order...A family of 4 more feasible. But all depends on the construction and distribution of weight in the van your considering..Many a hell of a lot worse then others. So just be weary when you go shopping for a new one...

[Guest JudgeMental]

Tony Jones - 2012-12-05 4:18 PM

 

Dealers certainly won't buy those portable scales (until customers start to insist on seeing weights for themselves as a condition of purchase - which won't happen anytime soon!)

 

And individual buyers won't spent a 3-figure sum on something they might only use once (at least, they'll hope so - no-one really wants to be running so close that you need to weigh every trip!).

 

So I wonder if there's a market for someone (possibly accessory makers, possibly clubs, or whoever) to buyu them and hire them out? That way, a prospective buyer could hire one for a few days and take it to the shows/dealers they visit.

 

Wouldn't THAT scare the salesmen!!!

 

Heavens above Tony! its £10 at most for a weighbridge ticket...and your planning on parting with 30-60K?no ticket, no buysees or swapsees...trundle oft to somewhere more enlightened..

 

if they don't want to play fair what other things are they covering up I wonder.. *-)