rp272 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 At the beginning of September we went on the Friendly Clubs escorted 'Western Adventure' tour. We were in a rented RV for 8 weeks (including a 3 week extension to see California) visiting about 8 states and even more National Parks. It was an amazing trip. http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/travelabroad/worldwide/usa/usa-escorted-tour/western-explorer/ One thing I did like about the American RV (there weren't that many) was the 'City Water' connection. This is a hose connection that links in to the fresh water plumbing after the storage tank and pump, directing mains water directly to the taps. I would like to fit such a connection to my AutoTrail Delaware and wonder whether anyone else has done something similar. I guess that I would need a non return valve to prevent filling the water storage tank and possibly a pressure regulator although I don't think UK/European mains water is as 'strong as in USA. I would welcome any thoughts and suggestions. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Not sure when you could use such a system in the UK or on the continent. Do you mean that you would always need to be parked next to a permanent fixed water supply ? (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 It's a great idea, but it has drawbacks. Mains water pressure is pretty significant in terms of finding leaks and causing damage. When we go to bed, or when we go out, we turn the pump off. Our reason for doing this is that on one unfortunate occasion a leak went unnoticed and the escaping water flow flooded the van. Thank G-- we were not connected to the mains. Think carefully before you go down this route of a mains connection. Hilux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodach Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 When I was in Shetland a couple of years ago caravans came into Lerwick site from the "country" areas for the weekend. Many of them simply connected a hose to the nearest tap and ran a hose into their caravan and left it there for the duration of their stay. Everyone else was expected to cart water from any distant tap that happened to be free. I did not bother to query this practice since I was only on this site for a short stay anyway.A bit antisocial but as a foreigner I thought best to let the matter rest. The internal arrangements are unknown but I presumed a tap on the inward end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 To do it would mean a fully service pitch ( expensive ) and rare in the UK, or to hog a tap to yourself, don't think that would go down very well. As antisocial as it sounds I can understand caravanners doing it, with all that pushing and pulling Aquarolls, that's another reason not to be a tugger, much prefer my 4/5 days onboard supply :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I'm sure it can be done, I guess Cak Tanks might have the parts, but I've only stayed on one site in UK that had 'Super Pitches' (I think thats what they are called). The water pressure in UK can be just as strong as US, don't know if your vans plumbing will be up to it, but of cause you could fit a pressure regulator. IIRC all the rv's we've used filled the tank as well but with what you're proposing you will have to do that separately. With regard to leaks we did have one rv where the toilet leaked, took a while to work out why the waste tank kept filling so quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 http://www.whalepumps.com/rv/product.aspx?Category_ID=10009&Product_ID=11&FriendlyID=Aquasource-Mains Pretty readily available in the UK - though as already mentioned, you would need a "service pitch" to make it viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Besides the Whale system Robinhood mentions, Truma markets a similar product permitting a leisure-vehile to connect directly to a mains water supply http://www.truma.com/uk/en/water-comfort/ultraflow-waterline.php Such systems are much commoner in caravans than motorhomes, as the latter tend to have adequate capacity on-board water tanks that make the idea of using separate water containers less attractive or necessary. There are diagrams on page 13 of this Australian .pdf showing how a direct mains-supply might be added to a motorhome's typical water system http://www.awardrv.com.au/dloads/pdf/productpdf_subcatid24.pdf and SHURflo makes suitable inlets http://www.shurflo.com/rv-products/rv-accessories/water-system-accessories/default.html To prevent the motorhome's on-board tank being filled, the connection to the existing system would need to be 'downstream' of the water pump (if a diaphragm pump were installed), or 'downstream' of the non-return valve (if a submerged pump were fitted). I'd be very wary of using a SHURflo inlet as the reduction in pressure is to 65psi/50psi. For a European-built motorhome, I'd want the pressure after reduction to be no higher than 25psi. The simplest/cheapest solution might be to use a Bullfinch water-inlet fitting http://www.homesteadcaravans.co.uk/bullfinch-water-inlet-point-with-pressure-limiter/ with a non-return valve in the hose joining the Bullfinch fitting to the existing water system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly58 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I would hate to think what the French would do if they found a motorhome permanently attatched to the one and only water tap on an Aire . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 There are some stringent regulations relating to any connection to the water mains, backflow protection, seperation from water tanks, types of fittings and a whole lot more. By making a connection to a tap the entire water system is subject to the regulations. You could make a complete seperate system to comply but I doubt that a M/H could be made to comply. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 kelly58 - 2012-12-22 10:37 AM I would hate to think what the French would do if they found a motorhome permanently attatched to the one and only water tap on an Aire . That was my point about where you would hope to use it. Your note about aires also applies to most campsites where there may be a one tap per 10 units or more. I'm sure a " permanent " connection wouldn't remain that way for very long. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Roger - my genuine question is: why? Why spend all that money, and strip out half your MH to fit a complete second water system? What is wrong with your existing setup? You've got a substantial onboard water store, you've got a pump, you've got taps and shower head. With our 125 litre freshwater tank, the two of us can go 4 or 5 nights when wild-camping, with a shower each per day, and one lot of washing up per day, plus flushing the toilet when necessary. We drink bottled water, which we carry with us in the big 5 litre containers. So, having to fill up via hosepipe once every (say) 4 days ain't a big problem.....or am I missing summat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I've stayed at a few places in France that would have allowed a motorhome to connect continuously to a mains water-supply without inconveniencing other people - for example, the campsites at Rosnay and Tinteniac and the aire-camping-cars at St Jean-sur-Mayenne. But, as already been said, the ratio of water-supply points to pitches is normally quite low. Adding a 'city water' inlet wouldn't interest me as far as my own motorhome is concerned, but it seems easy enough (and not too expensive) to do and Roger's normal usage of his Delaware (staying for long periods on campsites?) may make it worthwhile for him. Regarding hallii's caveat, it seems unlikely that connecting up a motorhome to a mains water-supply would be any less 'legal' than connecting up a caravan. The practice seems fairly common amongst caravanners and there's plenty of discussion about it on caravan forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 We have a Whale system others have mentioned and wish we could get rid of it, although selling current van so no great problem. This you can connect up to mains but have only done this once on a CC site, most of the time it is a pure pain and fills the tank pretty slowly. Do not bother with this system if you go ahead with your plan, personally cannot see any other system being any better than the Whale one so would not bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock312 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Hi We hired a RV in Canada a few years ago on a rally with 14 others,arrived on camp connected city water to wrong connecter,two were unmarked ,instead of connecting to mains storage,i had inadvertantly connected toilet storage tank,i went off 10 minutes later i heard frantic screams,it had filled the tank,then the toilet ,then went up vent pipe flowing all sorts of crap onto the roof,the toilet overflowed into van disgorging all its orrible contents about 3 inches deep. i spent the next 2 nights on the couch!!!!!! several others made the same mistake,no thanks i dont want city water connectors on my van thanks!!!! Happy Xmas, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rp272 Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 The American RV had a similar connection but on handover we were advised to ensure that it was only used after draining the 'black' tank and then only with the blade valve still open. I now understand the necessity for these instructions! We are off to Canada on a similar rally next May and will make sure we understand which connector is which. Happy Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rp272 Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 Thank you for all your thoughts, advice and suggestions. Having just relinquished our caravan after 4 years and in excess of 20,000 miles we are probably still thinking in caravan mode. I do so agree that making a permanent connection to a tap in an Aire would be very selfish and unfriendly. However we do intend to visit Spain next year for wintersun and will split our time between touring and staying on at a couple of sites for a longer period. A couple of years ago we took the caravan down to Marbella working our way eastwards along the coast to Barcelona. Half of the sites had both mains and grey water connections although at the time we were unable to make use of them. Subsequently I did take some 32mm waste pipe and pushfit connectors (bought at B&Q) which provided a very adequate drainage where facilities permitted. We never did get a mains adapter for our 'Water Hog'. I was not prepared to drink the water from our rental RV's onboard tank as it was impossible to be sure just how clean it might be. However taking water directly from the mains somehow seemed to be acceptable. A particular thank you to Derek with a host of practical ideas. I too like the Bullfinch water inlet option and if I decide to go down the mains water route this seems to be the most practical answer. Once again the Out and About Live forum has demonstrated that its members are singularly knowlegable, well informed and friendly bunch. Thank you one and all. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year's motorhoming to you all. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK5 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I think this should be easy to carry out. Prior to owning our current Swift Kontiki we had a Bessacarr Cameo caravan (built by swift) which had both, a external water connection to connect either a water pump in a aqua roll or direct to a mains tap, and also a internal fresh water tank, exactly the same as within our kontiki. I've wondered why a motorhome cannot be connected directly to a external tap while on site (not french aires), we occasionally go to sites like CC's Baltic Warf in Bristol right in the middle of the city and while there we dont move the van so a water connection would be very handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 When on a super pitch with drainage and water............I connect up the hose, stick it in the hole, turn it on every third day or so..............same with the drainage I have a length of drainage hose, I remove the drain tap push the hose over the pipe...... job done ;-) Why make it complicated? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 You are periodlically replenishing your motorhome's on-board water tank, with water being fed from that tank via an electric pump to taps/shower within the motorhome. The arrangement Roger is considering won't add water to the tank, but won't need a pump to feed water to the taps/shower as the mains water pressure will do that job instead. Retro-fitting a Whale Aquasource or Truma Ultraflow system would not be cheap (and both require a specialised hose), but DIY installing a simple regulated-pressure water inlet and non-return valve should cost about £40. The snag with the mains-connection idea is an obvious one - not only is a close-ish water-point needed that can be dedicated to supplying water continuously to the motorhome without affecting other people, but that water-point must have the type of outlet that will a) allow a hose to be connected to it and b) allow water to flow continuously from it. Basically, the water-point needs to have an ordinary 'garden hose' tap. While the two French campsites I mentioned earlier both have taps (I'm not sure what type of outlets the St Jean-sur-Mayenne 'aire' has now I think about it), plenty of Continental campsites/aires have water outlets that won't accept a threaded hose-connector and many (most?) have 'push button' outlets that are deliberately intended to prevent water being delivered continuously. I don't know what the general position is in the UK or Spain, but £40 for an additional capability that may prove to be usable only once in a while is still not going to break the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I'm curious to know what the OP, or anyone else would do about the gallons of grey water in their waste tank, would they let it dribble on to the ground, or cart it in buckets to a disposal point,all seems a futile exercise to me ! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Presumably the OP would follow pelmetman's procedure and link his Delaware's waste-water tank to the drainage-point of the 'super pitch'. The difference beween pelmetman's methodology and Roger's would relate to the connection to the water-point not to the drainage-point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Strachan Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Having suffered the failure of the Whale system on our van, it is not a system that I would recommend. To me its whole ethos is of caravaning, and not really compatible with motorhome living. The variety of different taps that are met on Aires means that on many occasions we have had to put water into a bucket and pump it into the van using the Whale Barrel system. Dont waste any money on changing is my advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Re the push taps..............I find a bit of string and a walking stick quite useful for fixing them so they run without having to hold them in ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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