mikejkay Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Anybody tried using an ordinary yale type door lock on a locker door? Any reason why it wouldn't be possible? I have a lock where the tongue is reversible. The door thickness is about 40mm. Would the door be hollow? or filled with compressible lightweight foam? I would hate to drill a hole only to find that the construction of the door precludes the fitting of the lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 An ordinary 'Yale-type' lock for a house door would be operable from both sides of the door, but presumably that capability won't be necessary for your motorhome's locker door. As far as locker-door construction is concerned, the norm for a coachbuilt motorhome would be for the material used to be identical to that employed for the main bodywork. For a Chausson, I believe that would mean the locker-door's outer skin would be GRP, the inner skin would be plywood, and there would be polystyrene foam between the two skins. There MIGHT be a void somewhere within the door material, but I doubt it. I've seen Yale-type locks on motorhome entrance and cab doors, though I don't recall seeing them on locker doors. In principle it should be straightforward to do: in practice there's plenty of scope for getting it wrong. If you are confident you can do it, then go ahead. If you've got doubts, don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 The throw or travel on the lock mechanism may not be enough to be secure given the often large gap that can be around the inside of a locker door - check before drilling? Also the inside facing of the door may not be strong enough to securely hold the lock's retaining screws without an extra layer of reinforcing? Other than that seems straightforward enough bearing in mind that you will only get one chance to drill a large hole in the right place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Wouldn't it be far simpler and no damage to the van just to fit a Fiamma frame lock ? They cost about £20-30. but involve no drilling of the vans structure. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Rayjsj - 2012-12-22 6:25 PM Wouldn't it be far simpler and no damage to the van just to fit a Fiamma frame lock ? They cost about £20-30. but involve no drilling of the vans structure. Ray Of course it would Ray - but if the poor guy wants to do it the hard way who am we to put him off!! PS - When I fitted a Fiamma lock a few years back it did need fixing holes if only to stop it falling off - or do you mean there a new one that uses a different fixing method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I have seen a Fiamma lock simply pulled away by hand as the bodywork distorted. The "flap" is used as a lever. They are better than nothing but in my opinion, they are ugly and not very secure. I used these:- http://www.saundersonsecurity.co.uk/acatalog/info_AS1999.html I had to lengthen the keys and pack the lock away from the door a bit. The bolt goes 6" over the door edge and is hardened. I fixed them to a metal plate that is fixed to the inner door using "Rivnuts". All you see on the outside is a nice chrome escutcheon. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 I have bought a Fiamma lock for the habitation door and which has a substantial fitting that bolts through the sidewall with four bolts. The Fiamma frame lock appears to use two self tapping screws and does not seem to be anywhere near as substantial a fitting. By the way, the locks are nearer £40 each than £20. As I already have the Yale I just thought it worthwhile to investigate using it. I can gain access to the inside of the locker door so I could simply use a sliding bolt (or two) but I would then have to unbolt the door from the inside every time that I wanted to use the locker. I would still be left with the weakness of self tapping screws into thin ply. A specially fabricated stainless plate on the outside of the locker door would solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 These Asec Garage Door Locks look interesting. Could you please be a bit more explicit about the fitting. Why and how did you have to lengthen the keys? I can't see how Rivnuts could be used to secure a metal plate to the inner door. Could you explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 This "poor guy" is just looking for an economical solution to a problem. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what you do about cab door (Ducato 130 multijet) security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 hallii - 2012-12-22 9:10 PM I used these:- http://www.saundersonsecurity.co.uk/acatalog/info_AS1999.html I had to lengthen the keys and pack the lock away from the door a bit. The bolt goes 6" over the door edge and is hardened. I fixed them to a metal plate that is fixed to the inner door using "Rivnuts". All you see on the outside is a nice chrome escutcheon. H mikejkay - 2012-12-22 10:58 PM These Asec Garage Door Locks look interesting. Could you please be a bit more explicit about the fitting. Why and how did you have to lengthen the keys? I can't see how Rivnuts could be used to secure a metal plate to the inner door. Could you explain. From looking at the locks and reading what hallii has said, I think that the keys would need to be lengthened as the locker door on a motorhome is thicker than a domestic garage door (which they are really intended for) otherwise the keys wouldn't reach the lock mechanism itself that would be mounted on the inside of the locker door. As for Rivnuts, this video shows how they're installed - by using several to attach a metal plate it would make quite a strong fixing point for the locks, it may also be advisable to use some adhesive as well to be doubly sure that the plate is well attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 mikejkay - 2012-12-23 12:02 AM This "poor guy" is just looking for an economical solution to a problem. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what you do about cab door (Ducato 130 multijet) security. Suggestion: Fit heosafe key operated internal deadlocks, and also Harrison locks or Vanlocks external deadlocks. Google for websites and details. I have fitted both to our MH and am VERY pleased with them, both from an obvious initial visual deterrence point of view, and also from a serious burglar entry-attack-prevention point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 AS MelB has said, the garage door locks are bolted to a metal plate, the heads of the bolts are recessed into the door to give a flat plate. The metal plates are Rivnutted to the door using 6 or so bolts/screws. Rivnuts can be fixed simply by using a bolt, nut and washer. I welded a length of 6" nail onto the keys to make them long enough. I had to pack the lock away from the door a bit so the bolt cleared the finishing trim etc. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 mikejkay - 2012-12-22 11:02 PM This "poor guy" is just looking for an economical solution to a problem. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what you do about cab door (Ducato 130 multijet) security. Previous forum discussion indicates that the factory specification of current-model Ducatos can include 'dead locking' of cab doors. Some relevant threads are here: http://tinyurl.com/c6zon79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 mikejkay - 2012-12-22 11:02 PM This "poor guy" is just looking for an economical solution to a problem. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what you do about cab door (Ducato 130 multijet) security. Sorry - no offence intended - we don't use anything other than the already factory fitted double locks on the cab doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 Unfortunately my cab locks don't dead lock. I am going to ask a Fiat dealer to check whether the deadlocks can be acitivated electronically when I have my next service. It would be the simplest and neatest solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 I get it now, bit slow on the uptake these days. The metal plate is larger than the lock allowing the use of several (6-8?) rivnuts thus spreading the load if someone tries to force open the door. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 MikeJay. What are you trying to achieve. Is it just a matter of replacing a lock or improving security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 Improving security. I have access to the locker from inside the van. The existing locker door locks appear flimsy and I am concerned about someone breaking into the van via the locker which is quite big. I know it sound a bit crazy to begrudge forking out £ 80 to £90 for a pair of Fiamma locks for a £30k van but that's the way my mind works. In any event, as someone has pointed out Fiamma external locks can be levered off. A Yale type lock and the garage locks discussed do not have this problem. I would fit a Yale type lock to the main door if I could but the Chausson door does not lend itself to doing this so I have had to make do with a Fiamma door lock. At least the one that I have bought bolts through the side of the van. The attachment of the door frame locks simply does not look adequate. I have been waiting for someone to point out that you cannot make a van impregnable and you are risking severe damage by trying to do so. Have to try though. I once owned a static mobile home and I fitted a letter box with a Stanley knife! At the time it occurred to me that a cutting hole big enough to allow someone to get in would be incredibly easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I have deadlocks on the front and habitation doors, the garage locks on the rear locker doors, a cat 1 alarm/immobiliser with panic button, window alarms, a gas and CO2 alarm and a smoke detector. Is it over the top? not for me, some may consider my item for personal defence somewhat extreme, but I am happy with it and would use it if needed. My point is that nothing is to extreme, it is what makes you feel secure, I would fit some stainless steel grids to the windows if I was allowed, but I am not, I am still working on it though! H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 As you have access to the locker internally a cheap option would be standard Chubb door deadlocks. The type with a multi spline brass key. This way there would be no drilling into the external panels and the locker need only be double locked when appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 24, 2012 Author Share Posted December 24, 2012 I've thought about these and they should be practicable as I can't believe that a thief would carry a splined key around. I think that the key hole could be drilled right through the door so that the bolt could be operated from either side. I'm still left with the problem of not knowing and detail of the construction of the door which is one of the questions raised in my original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 As long as access from inside is easy my inclination would be have a keyhole just on the inside. Its a matter of balancing security and convenience. Its odds on the interior of both locker door and bodywork is a foam filled panel with either aluminium of GRP skin. The locker external aperture and door frame will probably be an aluminium or possibly plastic extrusion. If the frames are thicker than the panels measuring panel thickness is tricky. You may need to pad out with some blocks, then measure blocks and panel and subtract thickness of blocks to obtain panel thickness. See My PM to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 26, 2012 Author Share Posted December 26, 2012 Thanks to everyone for their contributions. After some measuring and "offering up" have answered my original question - an ordinary Yale type lock would not be suitable without hacking away part of the door frame as the "tongue" of the lock is too short. I am now left with some form of long throw bolt, either a simple one bolted to the inside of the door or a key operated one. Although rivnuts would do the job a better solution might be to use a cylindrical Chubb/Yale deadlock fitted into the door. Key operated splined shafts are available for these deadlocks but as far as I can see if you fit a key operated shaft then the bolt could not be opened from the inside. I am not sure whether or not this would be much of a disadvantage. Still cogitating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 mikejkay - 2012-12-26 5:11 PM Thanks to everyone for their contributions. After some measuring and "offering up" have answered my original question - an ordinary Yale type lock would not be suitable without hacking away part of the door frame as the "tongue" of the lock is too short. I am now left with some form of long throw bolt, either a simple one bolted to the inside of the door or a key operated one. Although rivnuts would do the job a better solution might be to use a cylindrical Chubb/Yale deadlock fitted into the door. Key operated splined shafts are available for these deadlocks but as far as I can see if you fit a key operated shaft then the bolt could not be opened from the inside. I am not sure whether or not this would be much of a disadvantage. Still cogitating. If you are planning to employ the type of mortice 'window' bolt suggested by George Collings earlier, and to fit the bolt within the locker-door itself, then you will need to consider whether the door's construction will be strong enough. While there was little doubt that a Chausson locker-door's GRP/polystyrene/ply sandwich construction would be OK for mounting a conventional Yale-type domestic lock, fitting a window-bolt is another matter. For domestic purposes, installing a mortice window-bolt will normally involve drilling a hole into solid wood to accept the bolt's body, with the metal 'keeper plate' into which the extended bolt enters also being screwed to solid wood. However, I'm not confident that a Chausson locker-door will have a substantial (or any) wooden perimeter frame, nor whether there will be a wooden frame around the aperture surrounding the door. You'd probably also need to inset both fixing plates (as one would with a wooden window) as the gap between a locker-door and its surround is usually quite narrow. There are, of course, water-ingress implications when holes are drilled into a door/aperture. You could fit this type of window-bolt into a block of material fixed to the rear of the locker-door (though you'd need to ensure there was adequate clearance between block and aperture when the door was opened), but I'm doubtful that the length of a 'normal' window-bolt operating key would then be long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 When we had a Rapido 709F we had an alarm put on it and the chap used the wrong type of fitting - he used one that you placed into the edge of the door (looked similar to the one in the below picture) and it became apparent later that he had caught the inner of the GRP door outer skin which eventually caused it to crack. At the time we weren't aware of this and it was replaced under warranty as a faulty door, we only reaslied later that the cracking started in the exact spot where the chap had drilled into the door for the alarm gubbins. If this can happen when putting in smallish alarm contact, I would hate to imaging what the consquences would be if you tried to install a long deadlock bolt - even if you didn't catch the skins, any movement of the bolt at all, such as when going over bumpy roads etc, or even someone 'trying' the door to see if it would come open, could make it to touch the skin due to the flexing of the door, and cause you the same problem. IMV I don't think that installing one of the type of deadlock bolts that George has suggested would be a good idea, as you could do some serious damage to your locker door in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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