Boxer no 5th gear

[naittaw]

Boxer 2.5 TD: Driving from Perth to Alnwick yesterday after Edinburgh 5th gear began to slip out. 0ccasionally at first but soon just wouldn't stay in. Holding the gear lever it feels as if it was being kicked out of gear rather than slipping out. I'll get back home on Monday to my locan garage (in 4th gear) but has anyone a clue from this description if I've got a serious problem. I'm due to leave for France next weekend.

[Ranger]

Hi naittaw, sounds like a problem that I think has been around for a long time. Thankfully I have a Renault that does not get that problem so I don't know, but a few Forum Members will be back to you on this one very soon I think.

[bognormike]

had problem exactly as you said last Sept on holiday in France; had to drive back in 4th!. Please pm me & i'll fill you in with details; DON'T LET THE GARAGES TELL YOU IT NEEDS A NEW GEARBOX! Probably £300 cost to repair.

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]naittaw - 2006-07-15 10:01 AM Boxer 2.5 TD: Driving from Perth to Alnwick yesterday after Edinburgh 5th gear began to slip out. 0ccasionally at first but soon just wouldn't stay in. Holding the gear lever it feels as if it was being kicked out of gear rather than slipping out. I'll get back home on Monday to my locan garage (in 4th gear) but has anyone a clue from this description if I've got a serious problem. I'm due to leave for France next weekend.[/QUOTE]

Search the forum archive under Fiat 5th gear.  (I know yours is badged Peugeot, but I believer the boxes are identical.)  Lots of informative entries.  It's a well known and documented problem.  Search also back numbers of MMM Interchange, I'm sure I saw a reference fairly recently to how long the standard fix should take, so giving an idea of cost. 

The 5th gear, if I remember, is housed in an extension to the gearbox (which I assume was originally a 4 speed box).  The extension can be removed, and the 5th gear replaced with new, all without removal of the whole box.  Provided this is the correct remedy for your 'van's partciular problem, therefore, all you need is a repair centre prepared to obtain the parts and get you through the workshop p.d.q. 

See recommended repairers in previous strings.  Inexperienced repairers, even if nearer to your home, probably won't be able to respond so quickly as those who've done it before.

Hope this helps and good luck!

[Derek Uzzell]

As previous posters have said, 5th-gear problems on 1994-to-2002 large engined Fiat Ducatos are well known. However, the types of problem reported vary (jumping out of gear, difficulty engaging 5th gear, total failure of 5th gear, etc.) As your motor is a 2.5 litre, your motorhome was probably built in the early 1990s, so your problem may be due to wear and tear. Conversely, it may be something simple: in fact I read a letter in a French magazine where the writer described a 5th gear fault exactly like yours and the cause was just that the lock-nut retaining the 5th-gear 'cog' had slackened off. You need to get the gearbox checked over ASAP, but, as bognormike says, rectification may be less expensive than you think.

[Don Madge]

[QUOTE]Derek Uzzell - 2006-07-15 7:07 PM As previous posters have said, 5th-gear problems on 1994-to-2002 large engined Fiat Ducatos are well known. However, the types of problem reported vary (jumping out of gear, difficulty engaging 5th gear, total failure of 5th gear, etc.) As your motor is a 2.5 litre, your motorhome was probably built in the early 1990s, so your problem may be due to wear and tear. Conversely, it may be something simple: in fact I read a letter in a French magazine where the writer described a 5th gear fault exactly like yours and the cause was just that the lock-nut retaining the 5th-gear 'cog' had slackened off. You need to get the gearbox checked over ASAP, but, as bognormike says, rectification may be less expensive than you think.[/QUOTE] We had exactly the same problem many years ago, would not stay in 5th, lack of oil in gerabox, it's worth a check. the oil had leaked from the area of the speedo cable. Don

[Clive]

The new Sevel engines released very recently had new Sevel gearboxes to go with them. Hopefully this is a problem of the past. C.

[jlough]

I had this problem last year. Fifth gear is external to the gearbox and can be replaced without dismantling or even opening the gearbox. There was some wear on the 5th gear cogs and a little movement in the synchro bearings but nothing that would normally cause any problems but fitting new parts solved the problem. Parts cost about £300. Good luck!

[salu]

Fiat Bessacarr come back from France last week with only four gears fifth started jumping out half wat through the holiday, booked in to Garage next week, Fiat dealership said they had only known this to happen twice, i think they new a lot about it for it only happening twice! Our Van is six years old with 20,000 on the clock. Its a shame that Fiat wont admit to a problem Cheers Lawrence

[naittaw]

The outcome of my initial posting as follows - Van in to workshop Monday morning. Opened up to reveal 5th gear without removing gearbox etc as advised in earlier postings. No visible sign of trouble. Gearbox expert called in. He reported that the wear would not be obvious. New parts ordered (local Monday holiday so no real action exoected until Tuesday). Thursday - new parts delivered and reassembly begins - expected to take less than 3 hours. Wrong part delivered ! Friday - Correct part delivered and assembly complete. Van collected at mid-day. The real bonus apart from getting the van back in time for a family holiday, is that the one year warranty that came with the van, and that was due to expire at the end of July, paid out in full - £500 I believe. The van has only done some 37,000 miles. Surely gearboxes are not wearing out at that rate ? I spite of the wrong delivery which was not the fault of the repairer, North Street Motors, Kelty, Fife pulled out all the stops to get be on the road by this weekend. Full marks.

[Brian Kirby]

Well, that's good news.  The root of the problem is not likely to lie in the number of miles your van has covered so much as in the number of miles per year it has done, and how long it has remained idle between trips.

Without impugning it's credentials, I'd guess a 2.5TD Boxer would now be a few years old.  37,000 isn't even a decent year's mileage for a van and I'll bet yours hasn't done much more than 6,000 per year - and has at some time stood idle during the winter! 

Had the van been used daily, it seems probable the gearbox wear would not have arisen.  However, with the 5th gear incorporated as a "bolt on", it seems to have become fairly generally accepted that it needs to be kept in use.  When it is idle for long periods, the oil drains away from this part of the box.  Then, on starting, and until the gearbox oil warms up and circulates freely, the cogs run with inadequate lubrication, hence suffering increased wear.

The moral, it seems, is to keep the vehicle in use all year round.

[naittaw]

Brian, I think you may be right. We use our van all year round but after purchase we discovered a strange history from the maintenance log. It has been regularly maintained but the record does suggest that it may have been idle for some time. It's "S" reg. I hope that now the work has been done, and with our regular usage, all will be well in the future. Anyway, off to France tomorrow. Thanks everyone for your interest.