"This House will not fight for King and Country"

[George Collings]

I have to agree with you Anthony regarding we do not have the problem of recent large scale immigration but I do have friends who live in places like Nottingham who feel they are now a minority in their own country. We drove thrugh Luton a few years back and all that was missing were the sacred cows laying in the road like I had seen in India.

 

I lived in Malaysia in an Indian run but multi racial orphanage working as a volunteer back in the 1960s and have seen all sorts of racial discrimination. Its not a pretty thing.

 

Dont misunderstand me, I belive allowing mass immigration was totally misguided.

 

 

[antony1969]

You have to laugh when people talk of how immigrants are integrating into our communities , where do these people who post such dribble live ? some leafy " Midsomer " village where the closest they may get to an asian would be a chicken korma dinner at the local .

Pakistanis do not integrate , do not want to and as time goes on there younger generations of there own choice become more and more isolated from the rest of us .

 

 

[antony1969]

Further to my previous post I would like to add before the usual bigot name calling etc starts that I have the same feelings regarding Brits who flit to France and Spain to live in little Britain and don't attempt to learn the language , try the food or integrate with the locals .

[Skyliner]

 

Thankfully the last few posts have taken some of the bitterness out of this debate . On when was I first aware that mass immigration had been thrust upon us I can recall vividly was in the early

50s when cinema newsreels began to screen Liners bringing lalrge numbers of Jamaicans arriving at Southampton - many having been encoured to to work on London Transport etc. In latter years there was the Uganda crisis where the lives of Asians had been threatened by Idi and began arriving here en masse but in this instance we were fully sympathetic - having no objections. It was probably a few years on when realised that the immigration issue was getting out of hand when it was understood that many immigrants were entitled to have their fathers mothers and extended families arrive - many of their elderley entitled to claim OA Pensions from the moment they stepped on UK soil. (could be corrected on this aspect if untrue)

IHowever interest and concern increased when at first it may have been only a myth - but was later to prove a fact that the Labour Govt had a deliberate policy of encouraging mass

immigration on the basis that more immigrants - equals more votes for Labour !

For those with short memories references to the disgraced - some may say treacherous - Labour immigration Minister - one Beverley Hughes substantiates this fact - In addition other suspictions came to light - This time not fully proven - but with very strong suspicions that documents had been discovered confirming Labour had set in place a policy confirming intentions that mass immigration would be encouraged - while slyly deceiving the public they held the opposite intentions.

Laour had always denied this but have only themselves to blame if no one any longer beleives them

on the immigration issue.

 

Next came rumours and reports that with the Govt claiming the population was under something like 65-million - that some 75-million National Insurance numbers were in existance - and while

may not have been substantiated and seems to have disappeared from the radar - left the

feelings with some that this was another area worthy of further investigation for the truth.

- since both Govts had form for deceit and dishonesty on their estimates and figures and s left for others to ponder if was just a myth - or had any substance.

 

If we accept that the world is overpopulated - and the UK likewise - or fast approaching that

undesireable prospect then with some 65 - 80 million souls in the UK (who beleives Govt figures

any more) the one commodity GB no longer needs en masse - are people ! However as stated earlier there is nothing we can do about overpopulation as our Govt in its wisdom has handed control of British borders over to the corrupt EU !

 

(correcting spelling of 'eligible' in an earlier post before taken to task again)

 

[Brian Kirby]

antony1969 - 2012-12-30 5:56 PM

 

You have to laugh when people talk of how immigrants are integrating into our communities , where do these people who post such dribble live ? some leafy " Midsomer " village where the closest they may get to an asian would be a chicken korma dinner at the local .

Pakistanis do not integrate , do not want to and as time goes on there younger generations of there own choice become more and more isolated from the rest of us .

The problem is, Antony, you have already said that it is only the Pakistanis with whom you have a quarrel. So, your first line should surely read "You have to laugh when people talk of how PAKISTANIS are integrating into our communities.............

 

However, IMO, even this is too generalised. It is quite clear that many others of (mainly) Muslim faith have no intention of integrating, and would prefer the UK to change to meet them, rather than them changing to meet the norms of their host community. This is not entirely unique to Muslims, some highly orthodox Jews also fail to integrate, and keep within their own communities despite having lived in UK for many generations. However, what they do not do, is expect the rest of the UK to adopt their faith and practises and, at least within the UK, they do not physically attack their host community.

 

In reality, there are many Pakistani immigrants who have melted quietly into the UK background, and who are as angered and frustrated (and frightened) as you or I, by the behaviour of the religious extremists among their compatriot co-immigrants. It is the extremists we should concentrate upon, rather than taking broad swipes at immigrants in general, or at Pakistanis in general. Another Wiki link (sorry! :-)) on British Pakistanis here, http://tinyurl.com/6jvbsbz from which it is clear that many have been in UK for generations, some since the 17th century. Some are at the highest levels of business, commerce, and government, so they should not all be tarred with the same brush.

 

But, it seems many remain poor, and are poorly educated, which I suspect is the main reason they have failed to integrate. They have been able to survive in what almost amount to Pakistani ghettos, and have difficulty (more especially the women) with communicating in English elsewhere. There seems to be no proper vetting of, or qualification for, entry to the Muslim clergy, leading to quite remarkably ignorant people being allowed to preach bile in Mosques. The gullible and poorly educated, as has been true with religious teachings throughout recorded time, are easily swayed and cannot be disabused by the rest of us, because what we say is not understood, and they have been persuaded that we are more or less at war with them. An impression that is not much helped by the likes of the National Front!

 

I very much agree with George, that one of our greatest mistakes has been to provide translation services in place of teaching English - and not just for Pakistanis. No-one can integrate into, or even conduct normal life in, a country whose language they can neither speak, read, write, nor understand. Lacking the English language, many seem to remain virtual slaves of their own people, condemned to working in highly dubious sweat-shops. If even basic safety instructions cannot be understood, apart from any other considerations, they are a danger to themselves.

 

We need to identify, and somehow sort out, the extremists and the misfits, and give them the option of integrating and learning English and British social norms, or leaving. By staying, they do neither themselves, their compatriots, nor the rest of us, any good.

[nowtelse2do]

Skyliner - 2012-12-30 6:49 PM

 

(correcting spelling of 'eligible' in an earlier post before taken to task again)

 

Don't know who pulled you up on your spelling, but if someone has don't worry about it, there's only about 3 or 4 on here who are not dyslexic. Just look at pelmetman's posts, he uses smileys for full stops and commas.

 

Dave

[antony1969]

Brian Kirby - 2012-12-30 7:34 PM

 

antony1969 - 2012-12-30 5:56 PM

 

You have to laugh when people talk of how immigrants are integrating into our communities , where do these people who post such dribble live ? some leafy " Midsomer " village where the closest they may get to an asian would be a chicken korma dinner at the local .

Pakistanis do not integrate , do not want to and as time goes on there younger generations of there own choice become more and more isolated from the rest of us .

The problem is, Antony, you have already said that it is only the Pakistanis with whom you have a quarrel. So, your first line should surely read "You have to laugh when people talk of how PAKISTANIS are integrating into our communities.............

 

However, IMO, even this is too generalised. It is quite clear that many others of (mainly) Muslim faith have no intention of integrating, and would prefer the UK to change to meet them, rather than them changing to meet the norms of their host community. This is not entirely unique to Muslims, some highly orthodox Jews also fail to integrate, and keep within their own communities despite having lived in UK for many generations. However, what they do not do, is expect the rest of the UK to adopt their faith and practises and, at least within the UK, they do not physically attack their host community.

 

In reality, there are many Pakistani immigrants who have melted quietly into the UK background, and who are as angered and frustrated (and frightened) as you or I, by the behaviour of the religious extremists among their compatriot co-immigrants. It is the extremists we should concentrate upon, rather than taking broad swipes at immigrants in general, or at Pakistanis in general. Another Wiki link (sorry! :-)) on British Pakistanis here, http://tinyurl.com/6jvbsbz from which it is clear that many have been in UK for generations, some since the 17th century. Some are at the highest levels of business, commerce, and government, so they should not all be tarred with the same brush.

 

But, it seems many remain poor, and are poorly educated, which I suspect is the main reason they have failed to integrate. They have been able to survive in what almost amount to Pakistani ghettos, and have difficulty (more especially the women) with communicating in English elsewhere. There seems to be no proper vetting of, or qualification for, entry to the Muslim clergy, leading to quite remarkably ignorant people being allowed to preach bile in Mosques. The gullible and poorly educated, as has been true with religious teachings throughout recorded time, are easily swayed and cannot be disabused by the rest of us, because what we say is not understood, and they have been persuaded that we are more or less at war with them. An impression that is not much helped by the likes of the National Front!

 

I very much agree with George, that one of our greatest mistakes has been to provide translation services in place of teaching English - and not just for Pakistanis. No-one can integrate into, or even conduct normal life in, a country whose language they can neither speak, read, write, nor understand. Lacking the English language, many seem to remain virtual slaves of their own people, condemned to working in highly dubious sweat-shops. If even basic safety instructions cannot be understood, apart from any other considerations, they are a danger to themselves.

 

We need to identify, and somehow sort out, the extremists and the misfits, and give them the option of integrating and learning English and British social norms, or leaving. By staying, they do neither themselves, their compatriots, nor the rest of us, any good.[/quote

 

Brian education has been made available to these people since day one , so there is no blame to be laid on us if they choose not to learn the host countries tongue and that said it is only the older generation ladies who don't speak English as most are forbidden to by there superiors , the men . Every child born after the original influx after the war can speak English if they wish to and those who come for an arranged marriage will be surrounded by many English speakers so I am afraid that's not an excuse for there lack of integration into our world .

As for living in ghettos , that's not what I see . In Huddersfield typically they live in 3/4 bedroom stone terrace houses and most of the houses have had new windows , heating etc fitted on government grants . In one large area they live the buildings are old mill managers houses which in my fathers day I am told was a lovely place to live , hardly ghetto areas I think of when I imagine South Africa or Brazil .

Please don't attempt to blame the extremists for the Pakistani community not intergrating either its a convenient cop out . There lack of integration was long before the modern extremist trouble we have .

The truth is we don't need to invent reasons or feel guilty or racist for accepting that it is not us but the vast majority of them that has no intention now or ever to adapt to British life as many , many immigrants from many countries have done before them .

 

 

 

[Skyliner]

Thanks Dave - (spelling) - memo to self - Must try harder

[Guest pelmetman]

nowtelse2do - 2012-12-30 8:00 PM

 

Skyliner - 2012-12-30 6:49 PM

 

(correcting spelling of 'eligible' in an earlier post before taken to task again)

 

Don't know who pulled you up on your spelling, but if someone has don't worry about it, there's only about 3 or 4 on here who are not dyslexic. Just look at pelmetman's posts, he uses smileys for full stops and commas.

 

Dave

 

:D

[nightrider]

Extremists and misfits will not take the option of integrating with their host country such as Britain, they are only interested in sucking out what benefits they can, some Muslims (Pakistani) will marry our girls, very rare, but they are not averse to knocking off our girls and casting them aside when the fun is over, they are intent on becoming our landlords and instituting their sharia laws, am I bigoted or racist? yes, where the Asian Muslims are concerned.

[malc d]

It's an interesting idea that if this country were threatened with a third world war, or some such major threat, people could choose whether or not to enlist.

 

There would surely be conscription - and the choice would be - join the forces or / work in the mines - on the land etc / or maybe even be interred as an alien.

 

Although if the conflict involved nuclear weapons, huge armies would become irrelevant.

 

Happy new year everyone.

 

:-|

[nightrider]

malc d - 2013-01-01 10:17 AM

 

It's an interesting idea that if this country were threatened with a third world war, or some such major threat, people could choose whether or not to enlist.

 

There would surely be conscription - and the choice would be - join the forces or / work in the mines - on the land etc / or maybe even be interred as an alien.

 

Although if the conflict involved nuclear weapons, huge armies would become irrelevant.

 

Happy new year everyone.

 

:-|

Malc,

So if we were threatened by a third world war who would our potential enemy be? Not the Germans, French, Russians and certainly not the Yanks, it would be from the Muslim world who are at the moment seeking world domination.

[malc d]

knight of the road - 2013-01-01 10:42 AM

 

 

Malc,

So if we were threatened by a third world war who would our potential enemy be? Not the Germans, French, Russians and certainly not the Yanks, it would be from the Muslim world who are at the moment seeking world domination.

 

 

I'm not suggesting that there is likely to be a third world war - and you can't have a " world war " against a religion.

 

( The politicians are already regretting the use of the term " war on terror " )

 

My point was that in major wars people do not get the choice on whether or not they get called up to fight.

 

( ......and as an ex-National Serviceman myself I am aware that you can also get called-up in peacetime if that is what the government decides to do - certainly no-one asked me if I objected to a bit of boot camp. )

 

;-)

[Brian Kirby]

I'm not so sure about conscription. I thought the forces had now decided that modern warfare is too technologically complex, and too fast moving, to be able to train-up conscripts in time to do anything useful. A few back office logistical jobs, some transport drivers, caterers etc, maybe, but I think the days of large ground armies of infantry are pretty much in the past. Those who are reservists already have the basic training (and some a lot more), but raw recruits?

[nowtelse2do]

Can't see many of those that worship Islam swearing on the bible for 'King/Queen and Country' :-S

 

Dave

[Corky 8]

I have Served in the Armed Forces (Army) Not wanting to be called a racist or a Bigot by the ill advised, I will simply say I would not Join/be conscripted/serve in anyway in any conflict , this Country I was once so willing to die For.

[thebishbus]

You do not need an army to take over a country nowadays, just massively infiltrate it with your own people. It will be yours by democratic means in the end.

Brian B.

[malc d]

Brian Kirby - 2013-01-01 5:19 PM

 

I'm not so sure about conscription. I thought the forces had now decided that modern warfare is too technologically complex, and too fast moving, to be able to train-up conscripts in time to do anything useful. A few back office logistical jobs, some transport drivers, caterers etc, maybe, but I think the days of large ground armies of infantry are pretty much in the past. Those who are reservists already have the basic training (and some a lot more), but raw recruits?

 

 

 

The only 'use' for a large army in the future that I can think of would be for occupation purposes.

They might even decide to occupy parts of our own country at some time - who knows the future ?

 

You don't need a lot of training for that.

 

;-)

[malc d]

thebishbus - 2013-01-01 7:17 PM

 

You do not need an army to take over a country nowadays, just massively infiltrate it with your own people. It will be yours by democratic means in the end.

Brian B.

 

 

That's one way of doing it, but it didn't work for the British Empire - maybe we just didn't send enough people.

 

 

(lol)