tonyclaire Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Re staying overnight in pub carparks after a few drinks.Surely if a pub ownes the carpark this is private property not public hihgway.If not, this is alarming news to members of organisations who invite motorhomers to "stopover" in pub carparking areas. Members who visit pubs are not going there to have a soft drink or two. Is a pub carpark a public area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 What news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I have never heard of any one being breathalysed in a pub car park, has anyone else ? Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I'm guessing this relates somehow to the "Alchohol and your motohome - know the law" thread at the very top of this webpage? http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Motorhomes/News/Legal/Alcohol-and-sleeping-in-your-motorhome-know-the-law/_ch1_nw2526_pg1 Tony's question "Is a pub car park a public place?" is addressed in the article that can be downloaded by clicking on "DOWNLOAD THE FULL ARTICLE HERE" in that thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Not sure what prompted this thread... ..but I've always understood it,the "drink/drive" lark applies to any area that the general public has access to..."private" or otherwise... For pub carparks,I would've thought that as long as you've had permission from the landlord(landowner?),position the vehicle so that it'd wouldn't need to be moved 'til morning(or 'til you've sobered up!),don't put the key in the ignition(tuck it away in a locker) and take measures to make the vehicle look obviously "undriveable"(..with curtains drawn,driver seat turned around etc),then you should(may?) be okay... Having said all that,there are some arsey coppers about..and I wouldn't trust some as far as I could throw 'em... Oops! Sorry Derek..crossed posts..Now I see what "prompted" it...(lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 tonyclaire - 2013-01-03 11:37 PM Re staying overnight in pub carparks after a few drinks.Surely if a pub ownes the carpark this is private property not public hihgway.If not, this is alarming news to members of organisations who invite motorhomers to "stopover" in pub carparking areas. Members who visit pubs are not going there to have a soft drink or two. Is a pub carpark a public area? Lots of places are considered in law a public area, I think the carpark of PUBLIC house might just quailify. IIRC there is some case law around the carpark being public or not depending time outside of opening time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Years ago I knew of a bloke who had one too many and slept in his car on a private pub car park. A local with a grudge infromed police and he got breathalysed and subsequently banned, he was a lorry driver so obviously major consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambukashot Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I only use pub carparks for one night stopovers en route so the most i ever drink is a pint or too i am more likely to have a meal and drink and off to bed for a early start so i don't see the whole drink issue as a worry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The average Mr Plod has little in depth knowledge of the law, I know a few and they admit this. A pub car park would probably be subject to the drink drive laws, so just do not have the keys on you or in the ignition. To avoid any "misunderstanding" I always lock mine in my safe. The average policeperson does not lie in court, falsify notes, or abuse section 5 or 4(a) of the Public Order Act. Recent events show that not all policepersons abide by the rules. It might surprise you to know that under Section 5 of the Public Order Act, the police and the courts can decide if you or someone else might feel insulted. So if they can't get you for being drunk in charge, they might just find something else to use. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 sambukashot - 2013-01-04 9:33 AM ........................................... i don't see the whole drink issue as a worry! You just have to hope that the nice policeman sees it the same way as you. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikerBarry Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The law is quite specific in this matter - pub car parks are a public place as far as the Road Traffic Act is concerned - whether it be within licensing hours or not. But if you cannot be considered to be the driver of vehicle (someone else has the keys, such as the Landlord of the pub) then you cannot be breathalysed. There have been many cases where the defendant has argued that the keys were outside of his/her control because they were in his(or her) wife's/husband's hand/manbag. Or in the glove box. Some were argued successfully in court, and others not.. but the general ruling seems to have been that if someone has immediate access to the keys within the vehicle then they can be considered to be in charge of the vehicle, and liable to their responsiblities in the Road Traffic Act. The Public Order Act is completely irrelevant in this context. All police officers will be aware of this - whether they are nice or not so nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickydripin Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 But if you cannot be considered to be the driver of vehicle (someone else has the keys, such as the Landlord of the pub) then you cannot be breathalysed. There have been many cases where the defendant has argued that the keys were outside of his/her control because they were in his(or her) wife's/husband's hand/manbag. Or in the glove box. ------------------------------ Wait a bit am I missing something here if you give the landlord or some other person the keys or lock them up in a safe how are you going to lock/alarm the vehicle while sleeping in it. How are you going to prove to the policeman that they were in the safe? as you would have them in your hands to open the vehicle and switch the alarm off when he comes nocking or do you risk not alarming your vehical. Then there is the insurance risk if you have an alarm and do not use it and you get broken in to without your knowledge what would happen then?. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Mickydripin - 2013-01-04 11:32 AM Wait a bit am I missing something here Mike. A button on dash and/or independant fob, methinks. When inside the vehicle thats what I usualy use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 After reading all this,to me,it all seems too big a chance to take... ..and unless the "pub" has a clearly defined "camping area",which is fenced and gated from the main carpark,then I'd be keeping off the ale altogether... :-S (..which would probably negate the reason to staying at a pub in the first place... *-) ) ..and as I'd assume that this would apply to any "parking area" to which joe public has access(Farmshops,Nurseries etc)it would be interesting to hear the views/advice of those who run/operate the various stop over schemes..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Our conversation to the landlord upon entering a pub with a large fairly empty car park is something along the lines "If we buy a couple of meals and some drinks can we sleep it off overnight in our motorhome in your car park" has up to now always resulted in "Yes, what would you like" But before we leave the camper its blinds up, bed ready and off we go. Simples! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 You have as much chance of being "done" for drunk in charge in your motorhome in a pub car park as you have of being Gassed in it! I.e ZERO! Just like gassing you never see a post from somebody who its actually happened to. Always someone who knows someone who once met someone etc etc. The police would have to prove intent to drive. The CPS would just tell them to get lost. No case. Cant be proved. End of. Why would the police be arsed anyway. Ive been 5 stellas down wild camping when the coppers have turned up. Stopped for a chat to talk about vans as one of them wanted one. I had the keys in my pocket and was parked in a layby in Scotland. No intention of driving and you could tell it didnt even enter the coppers heads to question me about it. Go to the pub, have a few and stop worrying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK5 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 My thoughts exactly Barryd999 - 2013-01-04 6:14 PM You have as much chance of being "done" for drunk in charge in your motorhome in a pub car park as you have of being Gassed in it! I.e ZERO! Just like gassing you never see a post from somebody who its actually happened to. Always someone who knows someone who once met someone etc etc. The police would have to prove intent to drive. The CPS would just tell them to get lost. No case. Cant be proved. End of. Why would the police be arsed anyway. Ive been 5 stellas down wild camping when the coppers have turned up. Stopped for a chat to talk about vans as one of them wanted one. I had the keys in my pocket and was parked in a layby in Scotland. No intention of driving and you could tell it didnt even enter the coppers heads to question me about it. Go to the pub, have a few and stop worrying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 This 2009 MHF thread may be worth reading (and is quite fun): http://www.motorhomefacts.com/forum-printtopic-1-71660-0-0-asc-viewresult-1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_C Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Barryd999 - 2013-01-04 6:14 PM The police would have to prove intent to drive. The CPS would just tell them to get lost. No case. Cant be proved. Not quite true - this is one of the few cases where the onus is on you to prove your innocence, i.e. that there was no likelihood of you driving whilst over the limit. Go to the pub, have a few and stop worrying I'll second that, despite the letter of the law there is IMO virtually no chance of you being bothered by the Police when staying, with the agreement of the landlord, on a pub car park in your motorhome. Unless of course you do something silly such as start it up and move it. AndyC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Andy_C - 2013-01-04 7:46 PM Barryd999 - 2013-01-04 6:14 PM The police would have to prove intent to drive. The CPS would just tell them to get lost. No case. Cant be proved. Not quite true - this is one of the few cases where the onus is on you to prove your innocence, i.e. that there was no likelihood of you driving whilst over the limit. Go to the pub, have a few and stop worrying I'll second that, despite the letter of the law there is IMO virtually no chance of you being bothered by the Police when staying, with the agreement of the landlord, on a pub car park in your motorhome. Unless of course you do something silly such as start it up and move it. AndyC I dont know where I read it, it might have been the FACTS thread above but I think the law changed recently and the do have to prove intent. Your innocent until proven guilty. Something like that. Anyway. Not worth worrying about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophie Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 " "The police would have to prove intent to drive." Not quite true. In this case the burden shifts, in the case of a defence, to the accused. It is defence FOR A PERSON TO PROVE that at the time of the offence, the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Must admit never worry unduly when wild camping be it Scotland Ireland or France once we have parked up for the night have a bottle of beer then open the the wine to have with the meal. Had the local coppers stop by in Scotland and say hello never given a thought to the open wine bottle on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambukashot Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 So, i have two beers in a pub then sleep overnight in the pub car park but i get the feeling i am in the wrong reading the above posts?As far as i am concerned i will be fine, i mean i am not driving that night? so whats the difference between parking my car on a public road and i go out for a few beers but the only difference i go home afterwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 No mention as been made to the fact that after a few pints, then an overnight sleep, you would still probably be still over the legal limit for an early drive away start. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 chas - 2013-01-05 8:42 AM No mention as been made to the fact that after a few pints, then an overnight sleep, you would still probably be still over the legal limit for an early drive away start. 8-) This would be true where-ever you drink. It makes no difference if you were on pub car park or on a site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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