No Claims Nonsense.

[malc d]

Wooie - 2013-01-09 8:02 PM

 

 

 

Now that MMM are involved something might just might happen.

 

 

 

You could well be right there.

 

They will all have to dream up a completely new excuse for not giving No Claim Discounts.

 

:-(

[Brian Kirby]

George's computer is having problems, so he's asked me to post up the following links to the organisations to contact over motor insurance naughtiness. :-)

 

Link to the "How to complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service" (which includes insurance issues) here: http://tinyurl.com/yng345

 

Link for the contact page of the Association of British Insurers website here: http://tinyurl.com/an7zmap

 

Link to the Motor Insurer's Bureau contact webpage here: http://tinyurl.com/b2j9f7k (The won't really want you to contact them because it is not primarily what they do. However, if their members are in effect conspiring against others of their members who are offering non-NCD insurances, it will cause distortions in the car insurance market, and ultimately that will impact on all of them, so they need to take notice of what is happening)

[Brian Kirby]

Wooie - 2013-01-09 8:02 PM.................

When this happened to me last October i put this in a thread that was already running on here.

 

I received my renewal from Comfort and i thought i`d get some other quotes for comparisons

sake and i thought it wouldn`t do any harm.

 

It was only when several companies all said the same, that i`d lost my NCB because i`d had a

" Net Rated Policy " for 2 years that alarm bells started ringing.

 

They all said that the NCB was only " Held on record " for 2 years and because i had been out

of the " System " by having one of these policies for 2 years then it had " Lapsed "

 

I contacted Comfort about this and they said they would provide a letter stating that i hadn`t made

a claim whilst with them and that would count.

 

I then rang the other companies back and all of them said that " The Letter wasn`t worth the paper

it was written on " and could only quote on a NIL NCB basis as it had lapsed.

 

Where does that then leave you ? It left me Up the creek without a paddle and getting quotes

some of which were well in excess of £1,000 !

 

I have nearly 40 years driving,i have also held HGV 1 over 30 years and not a point in site and

never had a claim. To be then told that i`ve lost all my NCB all because of the " Net Rated "

rule just Beggars Belief !

 

I didn`t get anyone who said they`d experienced anything similar when i put this in the thread

;ast October and i just put it down to " It must be just me then ".........................LOL.

 

It was like a " Late Christmas Present " when i saw the article in the MMM and that is why i

started this thread.

 

Now that MMM are involved something might just might happen.

I know Graham, 'cos you've already said that! :-) Thing is, did you write to any of them with Comfort's letter, asking them for their written response? My concern is that we seem to have an allegation, but no supporting evidence to back it. It would be nice if we could prove that is what other insurers are saying/doing, rather than having to claim it is the case. Call me a cynic, but I think I can hear distant cries of "Oh noooooo, there has been dreadful misunderstanding, I think we have been misunderstood" or words to that effect. :-)

[lennyhb]

Brian Kirby - 2013-01-10 12:04 AM

 

I know Graham, 'cos you've already said that! :-) Thing is, did you write to any of them with Comfort's letter, asking them for their written response? My concern is that we seem to have an allegation, but no supporting evidence to back it. It would be nice if we could prove that is what other insurers are saying/doing, rather than having to claim it is the case. Call me a cynic, but I think I can hear distant cries of "Oh noooooo, there has been dreadful misunderstanding, I think we have been misunderstood" or words to that effect. :-)

 

Good point Brian, you have to be aware these days when you ring a company you are invariably speaking to an agent in a call centre who can only give you an answer based on what's displayed on their PC screen, there is no room for thinking outside the box.

Writing a letter takes it to a whole new ball game where a manager has to respond and find an answer.

[Wooie]

As i`ve already said i only had 3 days to sort out my insurance, and when Safeguard agreed to

insure me for what was only a few pounds more than my renewal from Comfort i went with them.

 

Seeing as i`d then got Insurance i didn`t pursue The Letter because i had no need for it and

because i`d had no response from anyone when i mentioned this last October i put it to bed.

 

When i saw the article in MMM i thought i`d try again to see if anyone else had experienced it.

 

All i was doing was sharing my experience with others who unwittingly might be in the same

position.

 

I was told by the call centre operatives that they could only quote on a NIL NCB basis and when

i spoke to 1 manager they said the same.

 

Was i then supposed to start " Arguing The Toss " with them because in my experience that

gets you nowhere.

 

I stand by everything i`ve said in these threads so as there is no misunderstanding in that

respect.

 

I am going to leave it to someone with a bit of clout ( MMM ) possibly who will probably get a

lot further than an individual like myself.

[lennyhb]

I would say thanks Graham to bringing it to our attention, I am in my 3rd year with Comfort and was not aware this could happen. So far I have not had any reason to change as the renewal so far has always been competitive, If I do change in the future at least I know the situation.

[Wooie]

lennyhb - 2013-01-10 11:39 AM

 

I would say thanks Graham to bringing it to our attention, I am in my 3rd year with Comfort and was not aware this could happen. So far I have not had any reason to change as the renewal so far has always been competitive, If I do change in the future at least I know the situation.

 

 

Hi Lenny and Thank You for that, i was quite happy with Comfort but thought it wouldn`t do any harm

to get another couple of quotes just to satisfy myself that i was getting the best deal i could for my

money i.e. Cover, Breakdown, etc.etc and i wanted to increase the mileage a little and i`d had

Air Suspension fitted since the last renewal.

 

It was only then that it came to light what would " Allegedly " happen if you went somewhere else.

 

I know that Insurance Companies and other institutions are " A Law Unto Themselves " and you

do hear stories of the " Jiggery Pokery and Tricks " that some places get up to but i was still taken

aback at how much it might cost me.

[George Collings]

Thanks for the help Brian.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Just as a rider to this string, I have now got my copy of the said MMM, and have been able to read the item Graham referred to (a letter from Dick Sherwood).

 

However, there is an editor's comment following the letter, in which he quotes from his subsequent communications with Caravan Guard, one of the firms Dick had contacted for a quote. In reply, Caravan Guard said "I apologise that your reader received this response from our team. After an internal review, we'd like to confirm that we would now be able to give a no-claims discount reflecting the total period your reader had been a claim-free motorhome driver. Of course, Comfort no longer offers a no-claims discount structure so is unable to issue a proof of no-claims bonus entitlement in the traditional sense. Comfort has confirmed to us that it will, however, issue a letter confirming the number of years a motorhome owner has been claim-free whilst being a policyholder. The evidence that your reader was able to provide would be enough for us to award a no-claims insurance discount of at least 68% depending on whether he wanted bonus protection or not."

 

By adopting their reported stance, any such firm would effectively price themselves out of contention for anyone wishing to switch from firms offering net premium policies. That is a somewhat commercially dubious position to take, in what is endlessly reported as a highly competitive market-place, as Caravan Guard seem to have appreciated. If the commercial folly of their ways is pointed out to them, I would expect other firms to change their stance in the same manner as Caravan Guard now seem to have changed theirs.

 

So, cheer up folks, all is not as bleak as it first appeared. It does seem odd that the consumer has to explain market economics to insurance firms, but if that is what it takes to help them to stay in their own market then, in the interests of a healthy market, so be it! :-D Funny old world, innit?

[Vernon B]

Afternoon folks, perhaps this might also set minds at rest:-

 

I took out a Comfort Insurance policy in December 2010 just as they had adopted the “Net Rated Policies” approach – now in danger of becoming as discredited as the “Liverpool Pathway”.

 

At the time of switching I had a full (70%) no claim bonus which was protected.

 

I chose Comfort for a number of good reasons which I think still hold true:-

 

1. They came well recommended by this forum’s members – search “Comfort Insurance” for the period 2009/10 for more info.

 

2. Their package of cover was comprehensive and clearly designed for purpose – motorhomes and touring abroad.

 

3. I liked their style. They don’t rip you off by using premium ‘phone numbers, the staff seem to know what they’re talking about, they’re actually based in this country and you can understand what they are saying – check out the “Essex Girl” auto answering message!

 

4. Their policies are underwritten by one of the top insurance companies - Aviva.

 

5. Finally, they offered me a very competitive premium - £345 compared with my then renewal premium of £528.00.

 

Now I can’t say I was totally at ease with switching to them because I could not for the life of me understand what this business of “Net Rated Policies” was all about. So to some extent, in proceeding, I was acting on my gut feeling about this company. Suffice to say I kept, for future reference, my renewal notice as evidence of my existing NCB.

 

Shortly after “signing up” with them my initial concerns were aroused again by reports on this forum that Comfort Policies did not include damage arising from accidents occurring when the vehicle was left at dealerships or garages. You were expected to make a claim against that third party. On studying the policy I found that that was indeed the case. However …

 

When I rang Comfort they were at pains to explain that they were on to the matter and expected to be able to include such cover when the policy was renewed. As it happened, because my policy had been in place for less than 30 days they were able to re-issue it with that cover included having got Aviva to amend their standard terms. Service beyond expectations? I think so.

 

So in the light of this latest development I rang Comfort this morning. I explained the debate we were having and the fact that although the focus of attention was on the reluctance of other insurers to accept built-up NCB entitlements the matter was also reflecting badly on themselves and could make it less likely for people use their services.

 

In a manner reminiscent of my previous call I was assured that they were aware of the problem and adverse publicity and were doing something about it. More specifically I was told that they were hoping to be able to provide customers with written evidence of acquired NCB’s in a form that would be accepted by the insurance community at large. And you know what – based on my previous experience I think they will.

 

Three other points which may be of interest:-

 

Claims Processing. I may be tempting providence here because I have not made a claim yet. However I have had a chip to the windscreen repaired through the arrangements Comfort has with Autoglass. This was a painless process and I was extremely impressed with the service I received.

 

Sprat to catch a mackerel. For those who are concerned that Comfort may be offering seductive terms in order to lock you into rapidly escalating premiums you may care to know that my renewal increases have been 8.6% last year and 4% this year. Although that first increase looks very high I think you’ll find that it was very much in-line with market conditions at the time. Those increases now make my current premium (from 1 January) £390. As a comparison Saga, who like others would not accept my existing NCB but would offer a 40% introductory discount, quoted me £650.00 for a policy offering less benefits. By the way that company got my attention with a flyer saying they were quoting motorhome premiums from £140.00pa!

 

Unprotected NCBs. During my phone call I also asked about the absence of protected NCBs. Apparently if I made a claim I could expect my premium to rise between 10% and 15% the following year depending upon the cost of the repairs/damage. Since 15% of £390 is around £60 it still leaves me £200 better off than being with Saga.

 

I suppose I should add the rider that I do not have any business or other connection with Comfort. Those of you that have read my ramblings in the past will know that I am a cynical b****** as far as the current state of customer service is concerned, particularly in the financial services’ sector. In my limited experience Comfort stand out as an exemplar exception to that trend and I hope they will continue to remain so.

 

Happy New Year

 

V

 

 

[PeterAndPatCue]

Comfort Insurance response:

 

A few years ago (as a result of some market research) we made a decision to apply net rating to our premium structure. This meant that effectively all our premiums assumed a notional maximum no claims discount. Our reasoning for this was to simplify our rating structure and make it easier for on-line quotations to be obtained (by removing the need for inputting details of NCD history etc). It also had the effect of making our premiums more competitive, resulting in savings for our customers. We have always responded to queries about this arrangement with the advice that, even though our policies do not accumulate no claims discount, we were fully prepared to produce a letter confirming a claim-free period if a customer wished to insure elsewhere (assuming of course that there had been no claims!).

 

What we had perhaps not anticipated was the action taken by some of our competitors in not recognizing our “claim-free driving” letters as an equivalent to proof of NCD. This is all the more surprising given that we have been running on this basis for over 3 years and it is only recently that these problems have occurred. Such action would appear to be more for commercial than genuine underwriting reasons. It is not (and never has been) our intention to put artificial barriers in the way of clients who wish to insure elsewhere. In this respect we owe a vote of thanks to Brian Kirby & Vernon B who have made some really helpful points about the whole situation on this thread.

 

Bearing in mind the last paragraph, and also the comments from contributors to this thread, we have made a decision to reinstate the term “No Claims Discount” for our policies, and for the future our renewal notices will once again show the amount of NCD earned. This will remove any argument about acceptance by other insurers going forwards. We still hold the view that this action should be unnecessary but sometimes compromises are unavoidable.

 

Richard Brewster FCII

Comfort Insurance

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Thank you Richard, Peter, and Pat (and, I suspect, Aimee and Ben!). Just one of the advantages of dealing with a firm large enough to exert influence, yet small enough to listen to its customers. No need to thank me, I speak as I find! :-D

[Wooie]

Hi Richard,

 

It was me that started this thread after reading a letter in the MMM.

 

I came across this " problem " last October when it was time for my renewal and put it in an already

running thread about insurance on here to see if anyone else had experience anything similar.

 

All i did was to ring round for a few quotes from other companies and that is when it became

apparent that there might be a problem with NCB.

 

I rang your company back and the person i spoke to was very helpful in that they said they would

send me a letter saying that i had not had any claims whilst with yourselves and that would be OK.

 

I then rang the other Insurance Companies explaining that i could get a letter from yourselves

explaining that i hadn`t made any claims but they all said that it was irrelevant and because you

operated a Net Rated Policy system the " 2 year " rule applied and i`d lost my NCB.

 

I`m sure you understand me when i say the only reason i left Comfort was to protect my NCB.

 

I have already said openly that your policy was a " Very good policy at a very good price " however

if that meant me losing my NCB than i had to consider my options and that meant i felt i had to

leave you and go somewhere else in order to keep my NCB.

 

If this now changes and your wording includes NCB and the other companies accept it then i will

be more than willing ( subject to the quote.....LOL ) to return next October.

 

All i did was to bring this to the attention of others who might be in a similar position without

knowing it and then i found myself almost having to defend my actions.

 

If you wish to speak to me please " PM " me and i`ll let you have my phone number

 

Regards.

 

Graham

[Dr Dave]

Top marks to Comfort for this information I assume that this stated NCD on the renewal notice is a notional term for other companies information, and that we will still benefit from the lower premiums Comfort offer via the net rated policy especially for people new to motorhome ownership.

Dave

[Tin Snail]

It's great to see that Comfort have responded to the pressure from it's customers at last, and will now confirm NCB entitlement. Thanks to everyone who has involved themselves in this - particular thanks to MMM for publishing the initial letter and contacting the companies concerned.

However, I think we're all still missing a vital point - with any 'net rated' policy, policyholders are always going to be exposed to greater risk in the event of a claim. Some claims are completely 'fault free' - for example, damage by an unknown third party whilst parked - but would still result in financial loss at any subsequent change of insurer. A protected NCB must be the 'gold standard'; even an ordinary NCB still has financial value following a single claim.

Comfort's policy offers excellent cover for a reasonable price, but, unless they re-introduce the proper NCB system - and offer protection as an option - I will still feel very vulnerable and not really fully insured. I, for one, would rather pay a little more and be properly protected. Comfort's premium was, after all, pretty competitive in past years when they did still offer a 'proper' level of protection - including protected NCB's!

So - come on, Comfort - go the extra mile so that I, and other customers, can be happy to continue as customers! :-|

[Vernon B]

Tin Snail - 2013-01-12 10:22 AM

 

It's great to see that Comfort have responded to the pressure from it's customers at last, and will now confirm NCB entitlement. Thanks to everyone who has involved themselves in this - particular thanks to MMM for publishing the initial letter and contacting the companies concerned.

However, I think we're all still missing a vital point - with any 'net rated' policy, policyholders are always going to be exposed to greater risk in the event of a claim. Some claims are completely 'fault free' - for example, damage by an unknown third party whilst parked - but would still result in financial loss at any subsequent change of insurer. A protected NCB must be the 'gold standard'; even an ordinary NCB still has financial value following a single claim.

Comfort's policy offers excellent cover for a reasonable price, but, unless they re-introduce the proper NCB system - and offer protection as an option - I will still feel very vulnerable and not really fully insured. I, for one, would rather pay a little more and be properly protected. Comfort's premium was, after all, pretty competitive in past years when they did still offer a 'proper' level of protection - including protected NCB's!

So - come on, Comfort - go the extra mile so that I, and other customers, can be happy to continue as customers! :-|

 

Of course some unscrupulous insurers, perish the thought, could offer you a protected NCB but penalize you for making a claim by simply raising the premium's gross cost - after all these are not published in a rate book so how are you to know?

 

V

[Brian Kirby]

Tin Snail - 2013-01-12 10:22 AM..........................However, I think we're all still missing a vital point - with any 'net rated' policy, policyholders are always going to be exposed to greater risk in the event of a claim. Some claims are completely 'fault free' - for example, damage by an unknown third party whilst parked - but would still result in financial loss at any subsequent change of insurer. A protected NCB must be the 'gold standard'; even an ordinary NCB still has financial value following a single claim.

I should be interested to know who offers the policies where claims on a no-fault basis are met without penalty. I have limited claims experience, but vividly remember being told that where a claim was made it was just that: a claim, and the discount was a no-claims discount, not a no-blame discount. Is this no longer true?

 

Comfort's policy offers excellent cover for a reasonable price, but, unless they re-introduce the proper NCB system - and offer protection as an option - I will still feel very vulnerable and not really fully insured. I, for one, would rather pay a little more and be properly protected. Comfort's premium was, after all, pretty competitive in past years when they did still offer a 'proper' level of protection - including protected NCB's!...............

But, whether or not there is the option to protect your NCD has no bearing on the scope of the insurance. You will be just as comprehensively insured (or not! :-)) with or without protection. All protection does, is to offer you the opportunity to buy out the risk from the insurer through an increased premium. However, that is not necessarily the whole story.

 

Your premium is based on several factors. Where you live, what you drive, and your driver profile. So, if you claim, even with a protected NCD, the fact that you have done so is liable to alter your driver profile, from one with a clear no claims record, to one with a recent claim. That change to your profile is likely to result in your premium rising, even though you retain your discount. So, if you are on a 60% protected NCD and you claim, you will retain the 60%, but it will now be 60% of a higher base premium. There ain't no free lunches! :-)

[p0930]

Well done Graham. I am well into my second year with Comfort. I had not realised this issue existed, bu it seems your timely post has resolved the matter very quickly. I suspect there are many out there will have reason to be grateful also.

[Derek Uzzell]

Don't forget that it's not just "Comfort Insurance"-branded motorhome insurance policies that are 'net rated'. The MotorHomeFacts policy is another.

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Motorhome_Insurance&op=display_results&insid=50

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/forum-printtopic-1-100886-0-0-asc-viewresult-1.html

[Wirralian]

What an excellent forum this can be. I have just renewed my policy with Comfort , all done in rather of a hurry due to the holiday period and preparing for this year's trip to Spain . The Feb MMM arrived just as we left home and i read that letter just today. I was a bit concerned but then I caught up with this forum just now and was even more worried when I started to read this thread. Thank you to all who have contributed with your informatlve and succinct comments.

 

John

[Tin Snail]

Thanks, Brian, for your thoughts, but I have to say my personal experience doesn't quite tally with some of what you say.

I have had, in the past, the experience of making a claim whilst holding a protected NCB. The renewal premium did increase, but only by a very small amount - certainly nothing remotely like the degree you suggest, and not out of keeping with normal annual increases. I had every reason to be thankful that I had paid the small extra premium to obtain protection!

With an unprotected NCB you tend to lose perhaps a couple of years' bonus after a single claim, but having no bonus at all can result in the premium increasing by more than double!

It's quite easy to check whether any quote for insurance is competitive, thanks to comparison websites, and I have always made it a practice to compare - if a renewal premium were to be significantly increased, it certainly would not go un-noticed.

I agree with you that 'there ain't no free lunches'; you have to pay extra for a 'protected' NCB, but, to my mind, and based on the experience of family and friends as well as my own, I will only be happy when I am once again covered by a protected NCB.

[Derek Uzzell]

I've resurrected this thread to highlight that (on Page 19 of MMM April 2013) there's a letter from Comfort Insurance saying that, in future, their renewal notices will show the amount of NCD earned. The letter is quite long, so, if you want more details, buy the magazine. ;-)

[Wooie]

Derek Uzzell - 2013-03-05 9:16 AM

 

I've resurrected this thread to highlight that (on Page 19 of MMM April 2013) there's a letter from Comfort Insurance saying that, in future, their renewal notices will show the amount of NCD earned. The letter is quite long, so, if you want more details, buy the magazine. ;-)

 

 

That`s Good News, we just need to know whether the other Insurance Companies will accept this and keep your NCD going ?

If anyone has any ( actual ) experience of this and not just " Hearsay " it would be good if they could

come on here and say so.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I called them late last week as up for renewal. No interest in my 11 years no claims history, was told these are net policy's...Quoted a price over £200 more expensive then present insurer safeguard.