Imigration

[spospe]

Has anyone seen a black motorcaravanner either in the UK or on mainland Europe?

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

spospe - 2013-01-30 9:42 AM

 

Has anyone seen a black motorcaravanner either in the UK or on mainland Europe?

 

No they've got more sense than us lot :D

[pepe63xnotuse]

spospe - 2013-01-30 9:42 AM

 

Has anyone seen a black motorcaravanner either in the UK or on mainland Europe?

 

That's a good point...

 

OT this bit but in a similar vein..

 

We go to a fair few music festivals throughout the year(..the attendence at these can vary between 3-5k up to 150k+)and most,if not all, of these festivals will have some stages/areas with very strong black African/Jamaican/"World music" influences...

 

However you very rarely see any Black or Asian punters in the crowd!?(..they're usually crammed with "Trendy Wendys" ...I do like that term Dave (lol) )

 

The only "non-white" faces you'll see in the audiences are those of performers who are between sets..or the blokes who work on the jerk chicken stall, taking a break...

 

However "black-rap" gigs/events will be awash with "white faces" ..

 

Most odd....So much for intergration eh? *-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Isn't this the whole fatal flaw, so many of us don't have a sense of belonging with other people, through shared history, interests, and of course more and more now language, and the forming of "Ghettos " does nothing to add to integration.

Having said that we have lived in Wales for nearly 20 years, after immigrating from Birmingham, and my Wife recently joined an art club in a small typically Welsh village, the vast majority of the population being indeginous Welsh folk, and only just yesterday I asked her how many Welsh folk are in their club of 21 members, her answer astonished me, only one. All the rest, are as we are affectionately called by the Welsh, are incomers. Mmmmmm :-S

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2013-01-29 7:30 PM..................To be fair, I thought your summary of my personality in another thread was totally uncalled for, but I did not see any apology forthcoming, even in part, and I tend to treat people as I am treated.

It was not your personality I summarised, it was your apparent attitudes, based on what you write. As I said previously, if what you write is not what you mean, I'm sorry, but you should take more care writing.

 

The problem with you ( with respect ) and as others have said on numerous occasions is you have a tendency to use so many words in the majority of your posts, it;s like drowning in treacle, and the message is lost..

I try to set out reasoned arguments. I am aware that some, including you, find these lengthy. On the other hand, others have said they appreciate them. So, one can only please some of the people some of the time. Based on what little I know of those who have shown appreciation, I am content in their company.

 

So let's have it, do you think we have a problem with immigration or not, if not, when is enough, enough, fairly simple stuff really.

I have said several times that I think we have had too many immigrants, too fast, several times, over the past 50 or so years. I think we have managed the immigrants badly, and should have insisted that they have, or learn, at least a working knowledge of English. I also think they should have been taught the basic rules of good manners, and the concept of free speech, as usually practised in the UK. However, one could easily apply the same comments to quite a few who were born here! :-)

 

And do please remember others have views you may not agree with, but they are just as valid as yours, whatever paper they read.

Of course. I hope I do. I do not dismiss anyone's views based on the paper they read, but I do tend to be profoundly suspicious of views quoted from certain papers, if they are served up as fact. This is not merely prejudice, it is based on my experience of the editorial preferences of those papers, and of their readerships. It indicates where they are "coming from" politically, so what their bias is likely to be. What I want in a debate is truth, not political dogma.

 

But you too should remember that if you fail to persuade someone of your point of view through argument, it does not make them wrong, or you right, and it does not justify resorting to rudeness and ridicule. It is just a difference of opinion. Also, remember that it is reasonable to explore someone else's view, and to test why they hold it. It is then logical to reject a view that seems unfounded, or poorly founded, and to say why. That is the essence of a debate: it is to challenge others, and to be challenged. It is how we all learn.

[Guest pelmetman]

CliveH - 2013-01-30 7:53 AM

 

What about ChinaTown in Liverpool?

 

On my last visit to Singapore we spent a couple of days in 'Little India' and Singapore's 'ChinaTown'. It was like moving from country to country almost by way of crossing the street. It was great!

 

Did they have vigilantes confiscating your booze?................or telling gay people to clear off as this is a Chinese area?..............or try to enforce their version of sharia laws Clive? :-S................

 

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Brian Kirby - 2013-01-30 1:08 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-01-29 7:30 PM..................To be fair, I thought your summary of my personality in another thread was totally uncalled for, but I did not see any apology forthcoming, even in part, and I tend to treat people as I am treated.

It was not your personality I summarised, it was your apparent attitudes, based on what you write. As I said previously, if what you write is not what you mean, I'm sorry, but you should take more care writing.

 

The problem with you ( with respect ) and as others have said on numerous occasions is you have a tendency to use so many words in the majority of your posts, it;s like drowning in treacle, and the message is lost..

I try to set out reasoned arguments. I am aware that some, including you, find these lengthy. On the other hand, others have said they appreciate them. So, one can only please some of the people some of the time. Based on what little I know of those who have shown appreciation, I am content in their company.

 

So let's have it, do you think we have a problem with immigration or not, if not, when is enough, enough, fairly simple stuff really.

I have said several times that I think we have had too many immigrants, too fast, several times, over the past 50 or so years. I think we have managed the immigrants badly, and should have insisted that they have, or learn, at least a working knowledge of English. I also think they should have been taught the basic rules of good manners, and the concept of free speech, as usually practised in the UK. However, one could easily apply the same comments to quite a few who were born here! :-)

 

And do please remember others have views you may not agree with, but they are just as valid as yours, whatever paper they read.

Of course. I hope I do. I do not dismiss anyone's views based on the paper they read, but I do tend to be profoundly suspicious of views quoted from certain papers, if they are served up as fact. This is not merely prejudice, it is based on my experience of the editorial preferences of those papers, and of their readerships. It indicates where they are "coming from" politically, so what their bias is likely to be. What I want in a debate is truth, not political dogma.

 

But you too should remember that if you fail to persuade someone of your point of view through argument, it does not make them wrong, or you right, and it does not justify resorting to rudeness and ridicule. It is just a difference of opinion. Also, remember that it is reasonable to explore someone else's view, and to test why they hold it. It is then logical to reject a view that seems unfounded, or poorly founded, and to say why. That is the essence of a debate: it is to challenge others, and to be challenged. It is how we all learn.

 

I fully accept your last paragraph, and as for writing style, well I'm kind if stuck with that, but I will try harder ( thank God for spell checker though ) but if I so much as get a whiff of ridicule don't be surprised if I give it back from wherever it comes. ;-)

 

You won't be to happy I guess to my response on Mel B s heating thread (!)

[Guest pelmetman]

Romania and Bulgaria immigration forecasts could be kept private

 

By Ross Hawkins

Political correspondent, BBC News

 

Fears for immigration 'consequences'

The Department for Communities and Local Government says it holds information about potential immigration from Romania and Bulgaria, but might refuse to release it.

 

The Home Office has repeatedly said it has not produced forecasts.

 

Last month Communities Secretary Eric Pickles told the BBC's Sunday Politics he had seen a figure estimating how many Romanians and Bulgarians would come to the UK when transitional immigration controls were lifted next year, but said he did not have confidence in them.

 

Labour and the New Statesman magazine then submitted Freedom of Information requests.

 

Labour asked for the assessment of potential immigration from Romania and Bulgaria and any emails, letters, minutes or notes related to it.

 

A DCLG official replied confirming that the department held the information, but said it might be kept private.

 

Freedom of Information rules allow some requests for information that could inhibit the provision of frank advice to ministers to be refused.

 

A Whitehall source said figures had been presented to the Home Affairs cabinet committee when the issue was discussed there.

 

The Foreign Office has commissioned a report on the impact of the immigration from the National Institute of Economic and Social Research.

 

The BBC understands the draft report has been available in Whitehall for at least a month. The government has said it intends to publish the report although it has not said when.

 

The report is understood not to contain a forecast of immigration levels.

 

Transitional controls in place since 2007 limit the number of Bulgarians and Romanians who can seek work in the UK and in other EU nations, but they will come to an end at the start of 2014.

 

In 2004, the-then Labour government allowed free migration to the UK for workers from EU accession states including Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic.

 

But its estimates that only about 13,000 people a year would come to the country were soon proved wrong, with a peak net migration figure, from the EU and elsewhere, of 252,000 in 2010.

 

Some countries imposed transitional controls to slow the speed of movement.

 

The prime minister's spokesman said the evidence from 2004 highlights how difficult it was to accurately estimate migration levels.

 

I wonder why they want to keep it a secret :D...........

[malc d]

pelmetman - 2013-02-17 5:58 PM

 

Romania and Bulgaria immigration forecasts could be kept private

 

By Ross Hawkins

Political correspondent, BBC News

 

 

I wonder why they want to keep it a secret :D...........

 

 

 

 

Must be a bit of right wing ( or is it left wing ) bias ?

 

 

:D

[Guest pelmetman]

malc d - 2013-02-17 8:12 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-02-17 5:58 PM

 

Romania and Bulgaria immigration forecasts could be kept private

 

By Ross Hawkins

Political correspondent, BBC News

 

 

I wonder why they want to keep it a secret :D...........

 

 

 

 

Must be a bit of right wing ( or is it left wing ) bias ?

 

 

:D

 

My bias tends to change with the wine :D

[malc d]

pelmetman - 2013-02-17 8:31 PM

 

malc d - 2013-02-17 8:12 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-02-17 5:58 PM

 

Romania and Bulgaria immigration forecasts could be kept private

 

By Ross Hawkins

Political correspondent, BBC News

 

 

I wonder why they want to keep it a secret :D...........

 

 

 

 

Must be a bit of right wing ( or is it left wing ) bias ?

 

 

:D

 

My bias tends to change with the wine :D

 

 

 

The only bias that I have ever found in the media is when they tell me something I don't agree with.

 

 

;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

malc d - 2013-02-17 8:45 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-02-17 8:31 PM

 

malc d - 2013-02-17 8:12 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-02-17 5:58 PM

 

Romania and Bulgaria immigration forecasts could be kept private

 

By Ross Hawkins

Political correspondent, BBC News

 

 

I wonder why they want to keep it a secret :D...........

 

 

 

 

Must be a bit of right wing ( or is it left wing ) bias ?

 

 

:D

 

My bias tends to change with the wine :D

 

 

 

The only bias that I have ever found in the media is when they tell me something I don't agree with.

 

 

;-)

 

Which is why I no longer buy papers Malc ;-).................I can get annoyed for free on the tinternet :D

[Symbol Owner]

thebishbus - 2013-01-29 10:08 PM

 

Whether you doubters accept it or not these Muslim no-go areas are there. Two weeks ago my sons partner had a job to do in London. After completing the job she left for home, but took a wrong turning in London and got lost She could not believe it, it was as though she was in a different country, not a white face in sight, only Asian looking men, and women covered up in black from head to toe. She tried to ask directions, NO ONE would or could speak to her, they just stared at her and walked away, she felt really frightened . Fortunately she has blue tooth, she locked the doors and phoned my son for help. Using his computer he redirected her on to the correct route. Perhaps you doubters should go and look at these areas yourselves , or better still send your wives to have have a wander around, and see how they get on.

 

Brian B.

Here's a very interesting analysis on that subject:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

 

C.

[Dave225]

One thing that may be cause for thought. In the news today it stated the Bulgarian Government has resigned because basically they are bust. The EU has killed all growth activity in the country and the Mafia gangs now rule it. According to official reports 'severe material deprivation;' poverty to you and me has soared to 44% the highest in the EU so I guess that if there is an option for these people, they are going to take it. I certainly would. If the Mafia are involved then the main 'industries' are going to be drugs, prostitution and theft and the UK is a wide open market for this.

 

Romania is slightly different as it has oil and gas and does make some money but it also has a class of residents who it feels are 'undesirable' and would be very happy to see moved to somewhere else, guess where? They reckon about 1 million moving would do it nicely. However, i doubt we have enough Big Issue places to accomodate all that lot especially as 3 out of 4 here are already Romanian. So much for helping the homeless in the UK.

 

All I know is Cameron better come up with an answer very fast. The clock is ticking.

[RogerC]

Dave225 - 2013-02-20 7:29 PMOne thing that may be cause for thought. In the news today it stated the Bulgarian Government has resigned because basically they are bust. The EU has killed all growth activity in the country and the Mafia gangs now rule it. According to official reports 'severe material deprivation;' poverty to you and me has soared to 44% the highest in the EU so I guess that if there is an option for these people, they are going to take it. I certainly would. If the Mafia are involved then the main 'industries' are going to be drugs, prostitution and theft and the UK is a wide open market for this.Romania is slightly different as it has oil and gas and does make some money but it also has a class of residents who it feels are 'undesirable' and would be very happy to see moved to somewhere else, guess where? They reckon about 1 million moving would do it nicely. However, i doubt we have enough Big Issue places to accomodate all that lot especially as 3 out of 4 here are already Romanian. So much for helping the homeless in the UK.All I know is Cameron better come up with an answer very fast. The clock is ticking.

 

An interesting addition to the foregoing:

 

Protesters etc were listing 'hikes' in energy costs imposed by 'foreign owned' energy companies as one of the reasons for the protests in Sofia.......anyone else notice the similarity to the UK?  High energy prices, severe increases, people (especially pensioners) dying because they can not afford to heat their homes.........civil unrest is coming folks!!!!!!!!

 

Press extract:

Protesters clash with riot police during a demonstration against high electricity prices in Sofia February 19, 2013. Bulgaria's Prime Minister Boiko Borisov sought to calm mass protests on Tuesday by promising to slash electricity prices and punish foreign-owned power companies, setting Bulgaria on a collision course with EU partner the Czech Republic.

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Judging by Eastleigh,................immigration is a problem up and down the land ;-)............so the loony liberals will stick their fingers in their ears and go lalalalala :D...................

 

 

 

 

 

Reality will be a bitter pill for them to swallow :-|

[donna miller]

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[Guest pelmetman]

donna miller - 2013-03-01 6:33 PM

 

.

 

Giggle :D.............but its had over 3300 views and 266 replies........ not yet in "Juddergate" league ;-)..............but it has prospects B-)...............unless it gets pulled *-)

[Guest peter]

Brian Kirby - 2013-01-29 6:06 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-01-29 5:56 PM..............And? :-S..................So the muslim enclave's that are appearing in many UK towns & cities are a figment of the locals imagination? *-)

Not necessarily. But, how anything appears, depends on one's point of view. The more extreme the view, the more the world sees to be against the viewer. To someone on the extreme right, the world seems dominated by communists. To someone on the extreme left, the world seems dominated by fascists. To me, the world seems dominated by extremists of both left and right, all of whom seem borderline certifiable! :-D

And to someone as intelligent as you and I, the world is full of idiots. :D

[Guest peter]

spospe - 2013-01-30 9:42 AM

 

Has anyone seen a black motorcaravanner either in the UK or on mainland Europe?

No I haven't but here's a moslem one. :D

 

Edit: Bugger, the pic's on the other laptop. :-(

[Guest pelmetman]

peter - 2013-03-01 8:45 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2013-01-29 6:06 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-01-29 5:56 PM..............And? :-S..................So the muslim enclave's that are appearing in many UK towns & cities are a figment of the locals imagination? *-)

Not necessarily. But, how anything appears, depends on one's point of view. The more extreme the view, the more the world sees to be against the viewer. To someone on the extreme right, the world seems dominated by communists. To someone on the extreme left, the world seems dominated by fascists. To me, the world seems dominated by extremists of both left and right, all of whom seem borderline certifiable! :-D

And to someone as intelligent as you and I, the world is full of idiots. :D

 

In ancient Greece an idiot was anyone who wasn't a politician :D............a little QI factoid ;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Britons must get a "fair crack of the whip" when it comes to competing for jobs with immigrants, Ed Miliband will say later.

 

In a party political broadcast, the party leader will admit Labour got the immigration issue wrong while in power and should not have dismissed the concerns raised by ordinary people.

He will insist that diversity is "good for Britain", but will say that migration needs to work for all of the country's people, not just some.

 

Reducing the number of low-skilled migrants coming to the UK will be part of Labour's "new approach" to the issue.

 

Tougher enforcement of the minimum wage will be among the measures he suggests, along with tighter controls on employment agencies to stop migrant workers being brought in from overseas to undercut homegrown staff.

 

The broadcast - to be shown on TV channels in England this evening - comes ahead of a major speech by shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper on Thursday, in which she is expected to set out a raft of new policies.

These include more prosecutions and higher fines for paying less than the minimum wage, as well measures to tackle "gangmasters" employing illegal migrants in the social care, hospitality and construction industries - including a ban on housing workers in over-crowded accommodation.

 

Ms Cooper is also expected to detail proposed reforms of the immigration system and action to improve the training of UK workers so they can fill jobs in shortage occupations.

 

Aides said Labour's "long thought-through" approach contrasted with the "kite-flying" of Government ministers, who have floated a range of possible initiatives to limit Romanian and Bulgarian immigration when the countries' nationals gain full freedom of access to the UK at the end of the year.

 

Labour argues that policies must address the key "pull-factor" for low-skilled migrants, which is the availability of work.

 

In his broadcast, Mr Miliband will say: "Britain's diversity is a source of our great strength. It makes us a more successful country.

 

"But people can lose out if migration isn't properly managed. The pace of change can be too fast or people can see their wages undercut.

 

******"Low-skill migration has been too high and we need to bring it down.******

 

"That means the maximum transitional controls for new countries coming in from eastern Europe; it means properly enforcing the minimum wage so people aren't brought here to undercut workers already here; and it means let's give proper training to workers already here so that they have a fighting chance of filling the vacancies that exist.

 

"There's nothing wrong in employing people from abroad, but the rules need to be fair so that local people get a fair crack of the whip."

 

Mr Miliband will promise a boost to English language teaching to new migrants, along with an English-speaking requirement for all state employees working face-to-face with the public.

 

I wonder if Gordon Brown would call Miliband a bigot? (lol) (lol) (lol)