Imigration

[cerro]

We don’t seem to get a lot up here Brian, one or two Indian people mainly in restaurants. And we have been here 10 years now, but when I lived down in Yorkshire I had a lot of personal experience and now I go down quite often to visit family and friends and it seems to be a big issue a lot of Poles in Wakefield. Is there main complaint. but like a lot of members on here I was very widely travelled in the middle east first in 1953 so can see the difference between then and now so to speak The politicians have turned a blind eye to it but are now waking up to the amount of discontent there is towards immigration on such a large scale in such a short time and I think it has a lot to do with why most people are disillusioned with the EU. I think Donner has a good point and put it quite well because I read where employees are not allowed wearing a cross round their necks in the Airports.And not allowed to have the golliwog on jam how stupid can one get.

[antony1969]

Cerro , dont think Donna would appreciate been likened to a kebab . Greasy , tasteless and cheap she certainly ain't , she's a real laydee .

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Had to smile listening to Eric Pickles today on the TV when he said the following...........

 

The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, refused to say how many migrants from the two countries are expected to arrive in Britain in 2014, but said they “will cause problems”.

Mr Pickles said the migrants would lead to increased pressure on both the private and social housing markets.

“It’s going to cause problems not just in terms of the housing market but also on social housing market,” Mr Pickles told the BBC’s Sunday Politics programme.

MPs have warned that as many as 300,000 migrants could come to the UK from the two countries when current restrictions on their movement are lifted in December.

Romania and Bulgaria's citizens can move to Britain for work when temporary limits expire on December 31 this year.

 

Lets hope it's not the 29 million that in theory could effectively arrive, they were a bit way of with the Poles. But maybe he is seeing the light at long last, but too late, and he cannot do anything about it in any event :-S

[nightrider]

Brian Kirby - 2013-01-13 10:34 AM

 

knight of the road - 2013-01-13 1:54 AM

 

It isn't that the Poles have a better work ethic than us it is purely and simply that they can earn more money here than in their own country, work that our people turn down because it is slave wages.

Emloyers over here have our workers over a barrel by saying take it or leave it knowing full well that a Polish immigrant desperate for work will fill the vacancy. We live in a broken society caused by greedy bankers and various other fanancial institutions.

But there you go, Malcolm, what I said, innit? :-) We have done it to ourselves, so why blame the immigrants?

Brian,

I dont blame the immigrants, never have done, i have a sneaking admiration for someone who will travel hundreds if not thousands of miles to seek out a better life for themselves and families in a foreign country. The ones that I blame are those who should know better such as our politians who have inundated this country with immigrants and it is the ordinary man in the street who is having to put up with all the distress caused, there will be riots in the streets in the future mark my words. I was born and bred in a predominantly Jewish area or ghettoe as I prefer to call it, the Jews have their peculiar ways and I wont do business with them and there is no way I would do business with Asians.

[cerro]

Antony 1969, Liken to a Kebab !!!!!!! I think you need to read the posts again. There is no way I would disrespect Donner or anyone els on here.

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2013-01-13 11:22 AM....................I did, I said fast track anyone one involved in terrorism back to their country of origin, if of UK nationality then bring back the death penalty for treason, or murders as the result of terrorist acts, as yet I've had no reply, so I will be voting UKIP at the next election, having wasted all my life voting for the other lots. ;-)

I don't think even that would really work. They'd merely change their appearance, get a new false passport, and then just go off to somewhere else, or back here, within a few months.

 

Since so many of them seem to welcome the idea of dying for their cause, I don't think the death penalty would have any effect at all, any more than it did for home-grown murderers. It would, of course, raise their status as martyrs, and would also, undoubtedly IMO, lead to retaliatory attacks - so I think would be more likely to increase, rather than diminish, our exposure to terrorism.

 

As for UKIP, my impression is they don't have any proper policies, apart from leaving the EU. You may not like the policies of the other parties, but at least they have some experience of government, and can call on others with wider experience for advice. UKIP seems to have just dreams, which it peddles for purely electoral gain, but no depth whatever, and absolutely no experience.

 

If this were as easy to solve as you seem to be implying, I think it would already have been solved. That it hasn't, doesn't IMO prove everyone involved is foolish, just that is is an almost intractable problem. I think it is going to take years, just as more or less settling the IRA did. That was what, 35 years - and I'm still not convinced it is finally over.

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2013-01-13 3:04 PM.............Lets hope it's not the 29 million that in theory could effectively arrive, they were a bit way of with the Poles. But maybe he is seeing the light at long last, but too late, and he cannot do anything about it in any event :-S

Hmmmmmm! Maybe, but then again, would you buy a used car from Eric Pickles?

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2013-01-13 7:21 PM

 

As for UKIP, my impression is they don't have any proper policies, apart from leaving the EU. You may not like the policies of the other parties, but at least they have some experience of government, and can call on others with wider experience for advice. UKIP seems to have just dreams, which it peddles for purely electoral gain, but no depth whatever, and absolutely no experience.

 

And the experience of the usual suspects has got as where?.....................the same old business as usual *-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

pelmetman - 2013-01-13 7:41 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2013-01-13 7:21 PM

 

As for UKIP, my impression is they don't have any proper policies, apart from leaving the EU. You may not like the policies of the other parties, but at least they have some experience of government, and can call on others with wider experience for advice. UKIP seems to have just dreams, which it peddles for purely electoral gain, but no depth whatever, and absolutely no experience.

 

And the experience of the usual suspects has got as where?.....................the same old business as usual *-)

 

Bang on the money, people moan and groan, say nothing can be done, and just keep voting for the same old tired out of touch lot, most of them living in leafy suburbs untouched by their handy work. I would have though even the likes of Brian Kirby would realise that, apparently not, just the usual sit on the hands merchant and slag off the likes of UKIP that might, just might, bring some fresh idea's, God knows the UK needs some.

 

My guess is judging by the ever more attacks by the press they may be on to something, and wouldn't it be wonderful for the same old tired lot to get a bloody good kicking at the next election.

[Brian Kirby]

pelmetman - 2013-01-13 7:41 PM..............And the experience of the usual suspects has got as where?.....................the same old business as usual *-)

Ah, but, you misunderstand! :-) I'm not saying I like what they have done, or what they do, just that they are the devil we know. I should much prefer to have the devil I know running the country, than to have a bunch of totally untried, inexperienced, opportunists trying to do so, while on a discovery learning course at our expense.

 

You may say how much worse could they be? I say a huge amount worse, in ways that none of the established parties, for all their failings, are ever likely to be. By the same token, I wouldn't want the Greens in power either. What I really want is more parties, and unending coalitions, so that none of them, of whatever party, can gain an absolute majority, ever again.

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2013-01-13 8:19 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-01-13 7:41 PM..............And the experience of the usual suspects has got as where?.....................the same old business as usual *-)

Ah, but, you misunderstand! :-) I'm not saying I like what they have done, or what they do, just that they are the devil we know. I should much prefer to have the devil I know running the country, than to have a bunch of totally untried, inexperienced, opportunists trying to do so, while on a discovery learning course at our expense.

 

You may say how much worse could they be? I say a huge amount worse, in ways that none of the established parties, for all their failings, are ever likely to be. By the same token, I wouldn't want the Greens in power either. What I really want is more parties, and unending coalitions, so that none of them, of whatever party, can gain an absolute majority, ever again.

 

The trouble is as long as we're part of the EU we are hog tied *-)

[Brian Kirby]

pelmetman - 2013-01-13 8:31 PM.............The trouble is as long as we're part of the EU we are hog tied *-)

Eh? We can elect who we like. The EU doesn't dictate the parties, the candidates, or when we can have elections. Someone been sprinkling fairy-dust in your eyes again? :-D

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2013-01-13 8:56 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-01-13 8:31 PM.............The trouble is as long as we're part of the EU we are hog tied *-)

Eh? We can elect who we like. The EU doesn't dictate the parties, the candidates, or when we can have elections. Someone been sprinkling fairy-dust in your eyes again? :-D

 

You know what I mean Brian ;-)...........As long as we are part of the EU we can not close the door on immigration, deport terrorist's or have bent banana's *-)

 

Seem's like us UKIP supporters have got the establishment rattled though B-)

 

Labour and the Liberal Democrats are turning up the heat on David Cameron as he struggles to stop his party tearing itself apart over Europe.

 

With just over a week until the Prime Minister's crunch speech on Britain and the EU, Ed Miliband insisted it would be "wrong" to promise a referendum, and accused Mr Cameron of "sleepwalking us towards the exit door".

 

Meanwhile, Lib Dem Cabinet minister Danny Alexander warned that the consequences of leaving the grouping were so drastic that no responsible politician would contemplate it.

 

The interventions came as Tory Europhiles launched a fightback against demands for an in-out referendum.

Cabinet minister Ken Clarke is to share a platform with Labour peer Lord Mandelson later this month to stress the benefits of remaining in the union. The pair are launching a new cross-party organisation, the Centre for British Influence through Europe (CBIE), to make the "patriotic" case for British engagement.

Around 20 Tory MP have also apparently signed a letter, due to be published this week, warning of "massive damage" if the UK leaves the EU. Rumours are swirling that Downing Street has given tacit approval to efforts to highlight the dangers of an exit.

 

In an unusual intervention last week, senior US diplomat Philip Gordon openly stated that America wanted Britain to remain in the EU. Prominent business figures including Sir Richard Branson and PR guru Roland Rudd have also spoken out about the potentially dire consequences of severing ties.

 

Sources told the Mail on Sunday that Mr Cameron believes it is "mad" to think that Britain can go it alone. And Tory backbencher Robert Buckland, who has organised the pro-membership letter, said he had been informed that Number 10 regarded his efforts as "helpful".

 

"The danger for the Tories is that because the right-wing Eurosceptics are making the most noise, we could slide towards the exit door of the EU," he told the Mail on Sunday. "The Prime Minister is a Eurorealist. He wants us to stay in the EU while having a debate about the terms of our membership, but it must not be used as a Trojan horse to get us to leave."

 

Another Conservative 'Big Beast', Lord Heseltine, waded into the row on Saturday by warning that the economy would suffer if Mr Cameron took a "punt" next week and committed to a referendum on membership. However, the party's Eurosceptics are determined to maintain pressure on Mr Cameron, buoyed by Chancellor George Osborne's recent comments that the UK can only stay in the EU if it changes.

[donna miller]

cerro - 2013-01-13 6:38 PM

 

Antony 1969, Liken to a Kebab !!!!!!! I think you need to read the posts again. There is no way I would disrespect Donner or anyone els on here.

 

I think Antony was being sarcastic because you spelt (?) my name wrong, nothing else. :D

[nowtelse2do]

Brian Kirby - 2013-01-13 8:56 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-01-13 8:31 PM.............The trouble is as long as we're part of the EU we are hog tied *-)

Eh? We can elect who we like. The EU doesn't dictate the parties, the candidates, or when we can have elections. Someone been sprinkling fairy-dust in your eyes again? :-D

 

Not yet.....but I wouldn't put it past them to try it. They seem to do as they please. Who actually controls them and who are they accountable to, or do they all p**s in the same pot..........Don't answer that, I think I already know.

 

Dave

[CliveH]

I think the EU will only survive if its changes!

 

On that point Osborne, in my view, is entirely correct.

 

And yes - UKIP coming second in a recent poll will rattle the status quo.

 

The Americans value our "influence" in the EU and I think the "special relationship" would suffer if we came out of the EU as it stands today.

 

But the EU has to change.

 

I simply do not believe that the PIIGS will meekly agree to decades of economic depression so that the richer northern Euro members can maintain their wealth.

 

But immigration within the EU works both ways. Has anyone thought what the Spanish and the French thought about the influx of UK citizens wanting to live in their countries a year or so ago?

 

I know that they objected to the "Little Englanders" setting up English ghettos - so how exactly are we any different?

 

The biggest problem is not really the EU here - tho the EU is itself, a big problem. The problem is non-EU migrants and our overly generous benefit system.

 

My migration itself - from all countries is a necessary thing for us here in the UK. Without it - a) we will have huge gaps in our essential and non essential services and b) the tax and NIC paid is required to fund our huge welfare system.

 

Get rid of the fruit-loops, the extremists, the criminal and the lazy - no argument there!

 

But stopping immigration full stop really is foolish.

 

It would very much be shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

 

[nowtelse2do]

CliveH - 2013-01-13 9:53 PM

 

But stopping immigration full stop really is foolish.

 

It would very much be shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

Clive why not stop it. We already have enough people unemployed and receiving benefits, albeit not as many as some of the other countries, but why add more to the list. What happens when the unemployed reaches the point when benefits can't be raised anymore from us that pay tax.

 

Its got to stop, and stopping immigration should be one of the first priorities.

 

Dave

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Sorry meant for Clive H

 

God almighty, you cannot see the difference between Brits who set up home in France or Spain, let me enlighten you, they don't just walk in without a pot to piss in, or claiming asylum, or pretend to be students at a non existent college, no they buy property, have money in the bank, and support themselves usually with a pension paid for with a lifetime of UK work paying their taxes., sorry but there is simply no comparison, and do you know what many learn the language as well, they don't have Spanish translated into God knows how many languages as we do in the UK dumping ground.

 

We don't go in to these countries and turn clean respectable areas the kind I was born and bred in. into inner city 3rd world slums, don't believe me, I'd be happy to take you or anyone on a tour of my home City.

 

Why do you think all the illegals and others make a beeline for here, when they have to pass through all these other countries, well a dummy knows the answer to that, it's called SOCIAL SECURITY, and FREE housing, try getting that in Spain or France, if it existed I'd be over in the Sun like a shot.

[cerro]

Sorry Donna, I must say 1 footinthegrave you are not a do gooder and have more common sense than most people on here I agree with your last post completely

[Guest pelmetman]

CliveH - 2013-01-13 9:53 PM

 

The Americans value our "influence" in the EU and I think the "special relationship" would suffer if we came out of the EU as it stands today.

 

 

 

Aaaaah the "special relationship" ;-)...................They say jump ..........We say how high 8-) ......

 

BTW........have we finished paying back our debt to the USA for helping them win WW2 yet? >:-).....

[nightrider]

pelmetman - 2013-01-14 9:07 AM

 

CliveH - 2013-01-13 9:53 PM

 

The Americans value our "influence" in the EU and I think the "special relationship" would suffer if we came out of the EU as it stands today.

 

 

 

Aaaaah the "special relationship" ;-)...................They say jump ..........We say how high 8-) ......

 

BTW........have we finished paying back our debt to the USA for helping them win WW2 yet? >:-).....

We paid that back a few years ago.

[John 47]

Because the last time I looked this is NOT a Muslim country, and church bells in case you have not noticed have been a part of the Christian way of life, and a part of the UK culture and landscape for hundreds of years, a way of life being eroded on a daily basis not helped by people like you, and that's what the majority ( mainly silent as yet for fear of branded racist ) even though Muslims and Islam is not a race, we strongly object to our country being changed before our eyes.

 

Have a read through the other posters, not many of us embrace the multicultural cesspit the UK has and is fast becoming, apart it seems from you.

 

 

 

The majority are no longer Christian either - and plenty of people(white ones as it happens) have complained about church bells in several well-documented cases! I made the point because you seem to want to apply different rules to different people.

 

One thing we can agree on is that the country is changing. It has always been changing. If if doesn't change, it dies. The difference is that you see changes that are not to your taste as threatening; I see them as interesting - whether I agree with them or not. And to dismiss the do-gooder label you want to put on me, I do not believe in PC and I believe that if someone breaks the rules then they should be punished.

 

And in response to a comment by someone else that I should try living next to Muslims and I would have a different approach - no, I wouldn't. I havee lived among people of all nationalisties, including Muslim, in this country and in the Middle East (not just a two week holiday) and I find the majority just the same as us and I find the call to prayer very pleasant. Others don't; it is a matter of taste but I object to people singling out one group for blame.

 

[Guest pelmetman]

knight of the road - 2013-01-14 9:20 AM

 

pelmetman - 2013-01-14 9:07 AM

 

CliveH - 2013-01-13 9:53 PM

 

The Americans value our "influence" in the EU and I think the "special relationship" would suffer if we came out of the EU as it stands today.

 

 

 

Aaaaah the "special relationship" ;-)...................They say jump ..........We say how high 8-) ......

 

BTW........have we finished paying back our debt to the USA for helping them win WW2 yet? >:-).....

We paid that back a few years ago.

 

Just WW1 to pay back then :D..........

 

Many Britons felt that the US loans should be considered as part of its contribution to the World War 1 effort.

"The Americans lent Britain a lot. Britain resented making payments," says historian Dr Patricia Clavin, of Oxford University.

And although Britain was unable to pay its debts, it was also owed the whacking sum of £2.3bn.

 

OUTSTANDING WWI LOANS

Britain owed to US in 1934: £866m

Adjusted by RPI to 2006: £40bn

 

******Other nations owed Britain: £2.3bn*******

Adjusted by RPI to 2006: £104bn

 

 

These loans remain in limbo. The UK Government's position is this: "Neither the debt owed to the United States by the UK nor the larger debts owed by other countries to the UK have been serviced since 1934, nor have they been written off."

So in a time when debt relief for Third World nations is recurrently in the news, the UK still has a slew of unresolved loans from a war that finished 88 years ago. HM Treasury's researchers descended into its archives and were unable to even establish which nations owe money. The bulk of the sum would probably have gone to allies such as nations of the Empire fighting alongside Britain, says Dr Clavin.

Nor is HM Treasury able to say why the UK never repaid its WWI debts - even though, at the time, many Americans took a dim view of repayments being suspended, for they had bought bonds which stood little chance of showing a return on their investment.

 

The Wall Street Crash helped plunge economies into chaos

Thus despite fighting on the same side in WWII, an air of financial distrust remained after hostilities ended.

"In a 1945 state department survey on the US public's attitudes to its wartime allies, Britain was one of the least trusted countries," says Dr Clavin.

 

During the crisis years of the 1930s, only one nation continued to pay in full - Finland. Perhaps a conscious effort to foster a good reputation with an increasingly influential power, Finland's actions generated thousands of positive stories in the American media at the time. Nor has it been forgotten; the Finns celebrated this achievement in an exhibition last year.

But for the UK, a reputation for reliability has taken longer to restore.

 

So if everyone paid what was owed the UK would be quids in............Oh I forgot..... it our job to pick up the tab *-).......Sounds familiar >:-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

The danger of religious dogma.

 

2,753 died from 'blunt impact injuries' on 9/11 and it is thought that around 200 people jumped to their deaths. They would have fallen for around 10 seconds,

 

[nightrider]

The Church of England is a dying entity just like our pubs they are closing their doors on a daily basis, yet Mosques, Synagogues and Catholic churches are thriving?