Dave225 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-01-15 7:29 PM In the news today............................ The terrified victim of a child sex gang was driven to woods and told she would have her head cut off by her attackers after she refused them sex, a court has heard. The girl aged 14 had tried to lie her way out of the act, but one of the accused - Akhtar Dogar - found out she was lying. She was driven to a nearby woods, outside Oxford, where they told her: ‘You know what we do with pigs, slit their throats.’ The girl was then forced to perform a sex act on a gang of men before being abandoned in the woods. In the dock from L to R: Kamar Jamil, Akhtar Dogar, Anjun Dogar, Assad Hussain, Mohammed Karrar, Bassan A Karra, Mohammed T Hussain face accusations of grooming and horrifically abusing vulnerable girls from the age of 11. All deny the charges Well they would wouldn't they They are all residents of Oxford, so maybe they are at university there?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 47 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 You do like an argument don't you, I see you've only recently become a forum member, so this I presume is a taste of things to come, your right and all the rest of us are wrong, Mmmmm a relative of Dave are we. P.S most take out BUPA for two very good reasons, a, they can afford it, and b, the NHS is fast going down the pan due to the burgeoning population. Yes I am a newcomer; I didn't realise there was a time limit before you could comment. No I am NOT right. That is precisely my point. We are all imperfect so we should be very careful about making sweeping generalisations that do not match the facts. I try not to brand all members of a group because of the illegal or obnoxious behaviour of a few. All I am asking is that others do the same. And yes, people do take out insurance for good reasons - if you actually read what I wrote that is the very point I was making! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 That lot seem to want sharia law in this country, so let's give it to them and cut their heads off. Scum that they are. >:-) >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 cerro - 2013-01-15 9:33 AM Brian I could be wrong but may be you only looked at the latest 10 that was posted if you press the view all button it gives you 8 to 10 pages of very long ones and if you don’t mind me saying as you are very meticulous in your research may I suggest you read all 10 pages then count the green arrows that is people who agree with the post ( over 2000 in one case) then find the four or five that agree with immigration and count there red arrows ( people that don’t agree with their views) add them to the green arrows I think you will find that about 99.8% want Immigration to stop and that is just a small minority but because it’s a small minority It gives me a feeling what the mood of the British people is. Gordon, I replied without looking at the actual comments. My point was that these are only people who inhabit the Mailonline blogosphere, so are a self-selecting sample, and cannot be considered representative of the whole country. I accept that many are uneasy with immigration, I am as well, but I don't see that as a ground for it to be stopped. I think there have been too many, too fast. I also think that when we have large numbers of unemployed it is silly to allow others to immigrate unless they hold skills not present in our workforce. I further think that when we have a housing shortage, and very high house prices, it is not sensible to add to housing demand through immigration. However, if one looks at the EU legislation that governs freedom of movement it no-where says one can merely turn up in another country, with out work or means of support, and demand housing, a job, and unemployment pay. In fact, it seems to me to grant specific powers to remove such people if they become a burden on the country's resources by staying. Our problem is internal control, which we cannot effectively carry out because, unlike most other EU states, we are not required to carry identity cards. Since we appear to have the power to remove such people, I don't understand why we do not do so. Does it suit someone's agenda for them to stay and be a nuisance, are we too short of police/immigration officers to take on the job, are employers pressuring the government to let them stay because they are cheap to employ, or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-01-15 10:08 AM................... I can only think the likes of Brian Kirby lives in some parallel universe if he does not understand the huge impact this has had on the UK in recent years. And let's not forget many of the voices calling for a halt are not just white British, but from every race that has settled here since the 50s, and for the most part don't want their quality of life eroded further. So perhaps it would be wise to listen to them as well, this is NOT a racist issue, it's just a matter of common sense, we are a small island,and the UK is full, time for a halt. But Mike (really?), where have I said I do not think there is a problem? What I have repeatedly asked is what, realistically, is your solution? Your irritation with the subject is palpable, but hurling insults at me won't solve the problem. All it amounts to is impotent bluster. I'll give you 9/10 for analysis, but only 1/10 for solutions! :-) Truth is, you don't know. Nor do I. It is not that easy to solve. That is not to say it can't be solved, but I think it will take a lot more than heated words to get there. Cool heads and wise counsels, methinks, are what is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-01-15 10:28 AM 1footinthegrave - 2013-01-15 10:08 AM I can only think the likes of Brian Kirby lives in some parallel universe Nah........East Sussex ;-)...............amounts to the same thing though :D Thank you Dave. That amounts to a hugely comforting thought! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 donna miller - 2013-01-15 6:03 PM............Unfortunately, you have quoted from the Daily Mail, the other members of this forum do not recognise the Mail as a real paper and insist it is only read by people who can't understand what a real newspaper is. :D Thank you Donna. A perfect summary! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-01-15 10:08 PM cerro - 2013-01-15 9:33 AM Brian I could be wrong but may be you only looked at the latest 10 that was posted if you press the view all button it gives you 8 to 10 pages of very long ones and if you don’t mind me saying as you are very meticulous in your research may I suggest you read all 10 pages then count the green arrows that is people who agree with the post ( over 2000 in one case) then find the four or five that agree with immigration and count there red arrows ( people that don’t agree with their views) add them to the green arrows I think you will find that about 99.8% want Immigration to stop and that is just a small minority but because it’s a small minority It gives me a feeling what the mood of the British people is. Gordon, I replied without looking at the actual comments. My point was that these are only people who inhabit the Mailonline blogosphere, so are a self-selecting sample, and cannot be considered representative of the whole country. Since we appear to have the power to remove such people, I don't understand why we do not do so. Brian perhaps no one has told you about the court of human rights, and the ability of the EU to dictate what we can and cannot do. As for your comment about the Mailonline cannot be considered representative of the whole country, the Tory and Libdems are not representative of the whole country either and yet they rule, so what does that prove, I can only guess of course but if a referendum was held that asked one question, should there be an end to immigration, my guess would be it would be a resounding yes, all the main political parties know they got it wrong, but it's too late to put the Genie back in the bottle, and it will be our children and grandchildren that will thank all of our generation for sitting on our collective hands and doing nothing about it.. As for the constant Daily Mail bashing, well it's a joke really, most items carried in the Mail are carried in the rest of the media in any event, or are they all part of the same conspiracy do you think ?. Is this just Mail online bulls**t as well Abu Hamza the TaxPayers' Alliance estimated that the father-of-eight Abu Hamza had so far cost Britain £2.75 million in welfare payments, council housing and legal costs On 28 May 2009, three of Hamza's sons were sentenced to imprisonment by Southwark Crown Court for a two-year fraud involving stolen cars. Hamza Kamel, then aged 22 and Mohamed Mostafa, then aged 27 (both from Acton, London) ran the scam operation with Abu Hamza's stepson Mohssin Ghailam, then aged 28. Four other men were jailed on related charges.[30] In July 2010, it was reported that another son, Yasser Kamel, then aged 20, was sentenced to twelve months in youth detention after pleading guilty to one count of violent disorder at anti-Israel protests in January 2009.[31] In January 2012, Imran Mostafa (another of Abu Hamza's sons) was convicted for his part in an armed robbery on a jewellers in Kings Lynn, Norfolk, and for illegally possessing a firearm with intent to commit an offence So they have all been very productive and useful new members of UK society, we have enough home grown A***holes without importing them. And yet the UK tax payer is still paying for his missus and kids to live here, but bite the hand that feeds them, so you may well ask why they have not been chucked out, now say altogether please " Human Rights" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 God, this gets hard! :-) First, the European Court of Human Rights is not a part of the EU. It has nothing to do with the EU. The UK signed up to it, and can, AFAIK, leave it on six months notice. However, I bet the Mail forgot to mention that little gem, didn't it? So, I rest my case. Fortunately, there is a difference between an election, an opinion poll, and a newspaper's readership. The nearest you will get to an accurate cross section of views will come from an opinion poll, though none is wholly accurate. But, most folk know that! :-) I have not said the Mail tells outright lies. However, it reports selectively, and hypes up items which fit its political agenda, which corresponds with the agenda of its readers. Its readers are particularly given to getting hot under the collar over a number of issues, and the mail knows how to apply the heat, as is frequently apparent on here. I prefer balanced reporting where I can find it. Mail readers, on the whole seem not to. I have the same contempt for the Sun, the Mirror, the Star, and the Express, so I am not biased against the Mail alone. So, the piece on Hamza will have been better reported elsewhere, with less obvious desire to inflame the inflammable by sensationalising the story. But if you like your buttons being pushed, long may you be free to enjoy the sensation. Just don't try to persuade me it is reliable as a source of information, or is a bellwether of public opinion. It reflects only a segment of public opinion, no more, no less. And please calm down, you'll do yourself an injury! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-01-16 12:24 AM God, this gets hard! :-) First, the European Court of Human Rights is not a part of the EU. It has nothing to do with the EU. The UK signed up to it, and can, AFAIK, leave it on six months notice. However, I bet the Mail forgot to mention that little gem, didn't it? So, I rest my case. Fortunately, there is a difference between an election, an opinion poll, and a newspaper's readership. The nearest you will get to an accurate cross section of views will come from an opinion poll, though none is wholly accurate. But, most folk know that! :-) I have not said the Mail tells outright lies. However, it reports selectively, and hypes up items which fit its political agenda, which corresponds with the agenda of its readers. Its readers are particularly given to getting hot under the collar over a number of issues, and the mail knows how to apply the heat, as is frequently apparent on here. I prefer balanced reporting where I can find it. Mail readers, on the whole seem not to. I have the same contempt for the Sun, the Mirror, the Star, and the Express, so I am not biased against the Mail alone. So, the piece on Hamza will have been better reported elsewhere, with less obvious desire to inflame the inflammable by sensationalising the story. But if you like your buttons being pushed, long may you be free to enjoy the sensation. Just don't try to persuade me it is reliable as a source of information, or is a bellwether of public opinion. It reflects only a segment of public opinion, no more, no less. And please calm down, you'll do yourself an injury! :-D God it does get hard as you say, I did NOT say the ECHR was part of the EU,and neither did the Mail as far as I know, I guess given your view of it you don't read it so you would not know either. I was merely trying to point out the irony of someone like Hamza and his ilke that appeal to the ECHR when it appears they despise everything we stand for. As for "sensationalising" the story, how can merely reporting the facts about him and his family's convictions, plus their reliance on the UK state to keep them housed and fed fit that description, even if it does what the hell difference does it make. I suppose they could have added his redeeming features in the interest of balance, I believe he can do some amazing things with his hook, except sling it. I suppose in the same way reporting Pakistani gangs of men grooming young White girls is "sensationalising" the story in your book, I can guess the answer to that. Brian part of the reason the UK has changed beyond recognition ( apart from your part of leafy East Sussex no doubt ) is because your type does not get hot under the collar as you accuse me of and leaves it to others to try to effect change, you just sit there and pontificate and give us the benefit of your worldly wisdom ! You've asked me more than once what's my solution,well as one old fart to another what possible difference could telling you make, would you help me enact my proposals, no thought not. Keep reading your Guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Aaawww...!! Come on guys, you'll be saying that Garfield is not real next. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-01-15 10:08 PM Since we appear to have the power to remove such people, I don't understand why we do not do so. Does it suit someone's agenda for them to stay and be a nuisance, are we too short of police/immigration officers to take on the job, are employers pressuring the government to let them stay because they are cheap to employ, or what? Big business likes cheap labour and our local farmers like cheap labour, as they are bullied on price by the like's of Tesco and co *-)...................they also like the fact that the immigrants are not workshy.......probably due to not being brought up on a diet of benefits and Macdonalds ;-)............Messer's Thatcher & Blair have a lot to answer for >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-01-16 12:24 AM God, this gets hard! :-) First, the European Court of Human Rights is not a part of the EU. It has nothing to do with the EU. The UK signed up to it, and can, AFAIK, leave it on six months notice. However, I bet the Mail forgot to mention that little gem, didn't it? So, I rest my case. That's good ;-) ...............when can we leave? B-)................Or would that put a lot of our lawyers out of work?........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerro Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 I am ever so sorry I started this please forgive me I wont do it again. Before I opt out of this can I just say two things, I have never been to Blackpool sorry I mean Spain and listening to one indeviisual on here I dont want to go. And the other thing. You cant buy it , You cant learn it, You are ether born with it or not. COMMON SENSE. I met Officers with letters behind there names as long as your arm but with not an drop of common sense the two very rarely go to gether I think I met two in severn years with both and they were good officers.Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Just to inject a wee bit of humour - it has all happened before:- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 laimeduck - 2013-01-16 2:04 PM Just to inject a wee bit of humour - it has all happened before:- Yes it is funny, but oddly exactly describes the problem in the UK today. Displaced people in their own land, no it's not so funny after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 nowtelse2do - 2013-01-16 10:00 AM Aaawww...!! Come on guys, you'll be saying that Garfield is not real next. :-D Who the hell is garfield?? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-01-16 3:38 PM laimeduck - 2013-01-16 2:04 PM Just to inject a wee bit of humour - it has all happened before:- Displaced people in their own land, no it's not so funny after all. Don't worry, I have a theory. It's a given that in a couple of hundred years or more, like it or not we will be a Muslim country. What will happen is this; The Muslim council will one day in the future have a meeting and will announce that they are sorry for the actions of their previous Sharia governments in displacing and forcing out the white indiginous population, they will then slowly start to hand back parcels of our land and maybe build extensive reservations we can rename "Little Britain, Little Wales and that barren country on the other side of Mohammed's wall". They will then amend all the school books so there is no reference to the retaliation Crusades. Don't laugh, you know I'm right. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-01-16 6:15 PM nowtelse2do - 2013-01-16 10:00 AM Aaawww...!! Come on guys, you'll be saying that Garfield is not real next. :-D Who the hell is garfield?? :-) He works for the DM (animal welfare) I think. *-) :D Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-01-16 5:45 AM God it does get hard as you say, I did NOT say the ECHR was part of the EU,and neither did the Mail as far as I know, I guess given your view of it you don't read it so you would not know either. I was merely trying to point out the irony of someone like Hamza and his ilke that appeal to the ECHR when it appears they despise everything we stand for. Well, what you wrote was "Brian perhaps no one has told you about the court of human rights, and the ability of the EU to dictate what we can and cannot do." That lumps the ECHR into the same sentence as the EU, in a way that led me to believe you thought, as many do, that the court is a part of the EU. I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but you did make misunderstanding easy! :-) As for "sensationalising" the story, how can merely reporting the facts about him and his family's convictions, plus their reliance on the UK state to keep them housed and fed fit that description, even if it does what the hell difference does it make. I suppose they could have added his redeeming features in the interest of balance, I believe he can do some amazing things with his hook, except sling it. By lumping all the Hamza items together, as fed to them by the Tax Payers Alliance, it sensationalises the story. It is intended to provoke yelps of self righteous indignation, and it succeeds. When you break it all down, Hamza is one very nasty piece of work, whose cases the UK has handled badly. Where would you sooner he was kept? Here where we can see him, albeit at some cost, or in some partially sympathetic country that just might, accidentally of course, lose him? I suppose in the same way reporting Pakistani gangs of men grooming young White girls is "sensationalising" the story in your book, I can guess the answer to that. No, you can't guess my answer to that! That story is sensational in its own right. There is little any paper could do to make it worse. But again, you take a single issue, and try to make it applicable to all issues, whether connected or not. The Mail generally skews its reporting, and the items it leads on, to pump up a segment of the right wing with indignation. It is how it sells papers. It presents the items it knows will elicit howls of rage from this group, in ways that will maximise their indignation. It is a game: its editor is not a fool, he knows exactly what his readers want. He is a very clever UK style neo-con. Brian part of the reason the UK has changed beyond recognition ( apart from your part of leafy East Sussex no doubt ) is because your type does not get hot under the collar as you accuse me of and leaves it to others to try to effect change, you just sit there and pontificate and give us the benefit of your worldly wisdom ! Wrong! But first, I'm sorry you have no leaves where you are. They are very nice when present. Not sure what "type" I am. Clearly you think you know, so you have the advantage: to me, I'm just me! :-) I get quite angry about all sorts of issues, including the continual mismanagement of immigration, and other kinds of silliness. I also get angry when facts are distorted. If I get angry enough, I try to get things changed. I write to my MP, or the odd Minister, in preference to sounding off on here. Not habitually, and only when I think it justified: it just seems potentially more productive. As to pontificating, maybe. But then, what is it that you are doing? Looks similar to me. I thought this was just a discussion, albeit with someone given to tossing personal jibes into the mix for no apparent reason. You've asked me more than once what's my solution,well as one old fart to another what possible difference could telling you make, would you help me enact my proposals, no thought not. Keep reading your Guardian. Indeed I have, and again you duck the opportunity, this time hiding behind a silly jibe about a newspaper I don't read. So, I think finally you have realised it is all rather complicated in a real-world sort of way, and that you don't have a solution, any more than I have. Shame really, because you will never know whether I might have agreed, or not. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 With the thought police in this country I'd no doubt be arrested accused of some "phobia" or other, so my solution will remain confidential, not for an open forum like this. After reading most of your posts I cannot make out what sort of bloke you are, or what you stand for, except for coming to one conclusion which the last time I heard the phrase was at school " a clever dick " let's let it go at that shall ,and to give an even balance I'll say I an uneducated moron, who does not know what he's talking about to save you the trouble.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-01-16 7:10 PM I also get angry when facts are distorted. If I get angry enough, I try to get things changed. I write to my MP, or the odd Minister, in preference to sounding off on here And that does precisely what Brian?????????? ;-)................................. (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) The post office has sold a stamp *-)..............that's ALL!!!!! :D............ And so little England slowly disappears to become the new Nirvana of little coffee colour'd people who do as they're told to keep our lords & masters as they wish to be kept ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-01-16 8:54 PM Brian Kirby - 2013-01-16 7:10 PM I also get angry when facts are distorted. If I get angry enough, I try to get things changed. I write to my MP, or the odd Minister, in preference to sounding off on here And that does precisely what Brian?????????? ;-)................................. (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) The post office has sold a stamp *-)..............that's ALL!!!!! :D............ And so little England slowly disappears to become the new Nirvana of little coffee colour'd people who do as they're told to keep our lords & masters as they wish to be kept ;-) He'll be coming after you now,to put you right. I must say for him to say " in preference to sounding off on here" why does he get involved in the "discussion" he's a man who can always be relied on to use a few hundred words always, when a few dozen would have done, and here's the thing,despite all of his ramblings do any of us know where he stands on this issue ( mind you I personally do not care ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Well, you got that right. I have three dimensions, not just two. Most of us have. That is why I try to avoid arriving at simplistic judgements of people I don't know, and have never met. Mind, I do form preliminary judgements based on what they write, and how they write it. So far, I am much encouraged! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-01-17 12:14 AM Well, you got that right. I have three dimensions, not just two. Most of us have. That is why I try to avoid arriving at simplistic judgements of people I don't know, and have never met. Mind, I do form preliminary judgements based on what they write, and how they write it. So far, I am much encouraged! :-D From an earlier post of yours " I prefer balanced reporting where I can find it. Mail readers, on the whole seem not to." sounds like a pretty simplistic judgement of a few million people to me Brian :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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