rupert123 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 . I never camp on other people's land without permission, I never park anywhere to annoy local residents and I never leave behind any sign that I have been there. What is your problem with that? Is that a fact John47? So on all these places you say you park up for the night you seek out the owner and ask permission, how do you know who the owner is for a start, please enlighten us all. How do you know you are not annoying anyone do you conduct a local survey the next day. I would be willing to bet a large amount that along with others you rarely, if ever, bother to seek out the owner of the carpark, layby etc to ask if it is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Many on here who take the 'posh' out of motorhomers who use site facilities will still be using the same equipment in their vans ie TV, satellite, kettle, radio, laptop, cooker, heater, hair dryers, showers etc, etc. The fact that these devices are versions that run from batteries, inverters, gas, solar, GENERATORS, etc seem to endow the the owner to look down their nose at someone using the same devices with some of them using mains electricity. There is a real inverted snobbishness around about running the same processes in their van but doing it in a side street as opposed to on a campsite. When in spain this winter, we had loads of 'wilders' :-S parked outside the local Lidl with sat dishes up, TVs blaring, doors onto the street wide open and they stayed there for days on end. The vans never moved so Lord knows what happened to all the waste. Anyway, it was free and it was WILD so what do I know? The only 'wild' element was the passers by having to endure the racket. Some of these vans were large Burstners, Cathargos, N+Bs, Concordes, Hymers etc which were in the £100k+ zone yet parking outside Lidl on a street seemed to be the thing. Strange thing to do if its not to save money?? Yes, go up a mountain, park by a lake, drive miles into a deserted forest, go back to Nature, leave all the creature comforts at home and then come on here and tell us all about 'wild camping' but not after a few days on the streeet outside Lidl ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-02-06 9:24 AM Personally I have better things to do on holiday than spend hours driving around looking for a spot to stay the night but each to his own. My main point here and it has always been the case is not the money saved, although I still see this as the only logical reason to 'wild camp', but parking on other peoples land without permission. This is causing problems for us all with more and more places putting up barriers, surely their are enough official places in Europe to stay the night that are free or cheap without resorting to doing this. A common perception is that us off siters spend hours looking for the perfect spot, stay for a week and leave. It's not quite like that for us as we tend to use the roads less travelled with lots of scenic potential and if that has not produced a quiet spot suitable for our needs on what does at least appear to be public owned or managed land without inconvenience or eyesore to others we don't stop. We never stop more than two nights and usually just one. Leave only wheel tracks and take only photos and memories! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 47 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-02-06 9:35 AM Is that a fact John47? So on all these places you say you park up for the night you seek out the owner and ask permission, how do you know who the owner is for a start, please enlighten us all. How do you know you are not annoying anyone do you conduct a local survey the next day. I would be willing to bet a large amount that along with others you rarely, if ever, bother to seek out the owner of the carpark, layby etc to ask if it is ok. Quite simple really. I never park on private land without permission. You mention lay-bys; I don't often choose to park in laybys but they are part of the highway and unless there is a TRO banning parking then I would be legally parked in the layby. The same applies to public car parks. If the car park is private - eg a supermarket - then I ask permission; sometimes it is given; sometimes it is not and we move on. Quite often when we stop at a pub or restaurant with a car park I ask if we can stay the night if we eaat or drink there. We have never been refused permission. As for not annoying people, we never park outside anybody's property or where we can clearly be seen from a private property. If anybody is annoyed by what they can't see or can't hear then I'd say that was their problem not mine because I am as entitld to be on public land as they are. I hate generators; our power comes from the solar panel. I don't drop waste; we stay a maximum of two days anywhere. We never stop if there is already a crowd of vans in the area. I've probably stopped near you and you didn't notice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-02-06 9:24 AM Barry, I have read your blog with interest and amusment, your posts always try to make your point without abuse. I like the pictures you put in your last post but asking me to believe all your stops are remotely like the pictures is a step to far. Personally I have better things to do on holiday than spend hours driving around looking for a spot to stay the night but each to his own. My main point here and it has always been the case is not the money saved, although I still see this as the only logical reason to 'wild camp', but parking on other peoples land without permission. This is causeing problems for us all with more and more places putting up barriers, surely their are enough official places in europe to stay the night that are free or cheap without resorting to doing this. I kinda find agreement here...If you camp late and away early maybe OK, but one shot is obviously a picnic/beauty spot...so why spoil it with white boxes dominating the view and potentially spoiling others enjoyment... edit: here is a campsite in Tuscany, on a lake, during August..12 € a night *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-02-06 9:24 AM Barry, I have read your blog with interest and amusment, your posts always try to make your point without abuse. I like the pictures you put in your last post but asking me to believe all your stops are remotely like the pictures is a step to far. Personally I have better things to do on holiday than spend hours driving around looking for a spot to stay the night but each to his own. My main point here and it has always been the case is not the money saved, although I still see this as the only logical reason to 'wild camp', but parking on other peoples land without permission. This is causeing problems for us all with more and more places putting up barriers, surely their are enough official places in europe to stay the night that are free or cheap without resorting to doing this. No I can assure you they are not all like that! It makes it more rewarding when you do find them though and there are hundreds like that I could show you (and a fair few not so good ones!). Each to their own of course. I enjoy finding these places. I also cant be arsed sometimes and love a good CL or Aire, Sosta whatever. I just dont like campsites. Its not the money (although of course I will admit it is a factor), I just dont like them. I dont like crowds of vans. I agree totally that special consideration should be taken when wilding and most of the people I know who wildcamp leave the place in a better condtion then when the arrive and wouldnt dream of parking somewhere inconsiderate or illegal. Sadly as with motorhomers who use Aires, campsites or wild camp there are always bad apples who dont give a toss for anyone else. Sadly thats just the way of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-02-06 9:51 AM I kinda find agreement here...If you camp late and away early maybe OK, but one shot is obviously a picnic/beauty spot...so why spoil it with white boxes dominating the view and potentially spoiling others enjoyment... Fair comment but there are not often many picnickers about late afternoon and before 10 am ish? Have been known to ask picnickers if it is OK to stop. Sometimes they don't know and sometimes they do and sometimes they enjoy a fresh cup of tea/coffee or glass of wine with us - especially in Scandinavia where the locals seem more friendly and outgoing than many other countries and some enjoy the chance to practise their English on us! We have had some great evenings and fond memories from off site 'mild' camping. Each to their own and as most of us non siters don't knock 'posh' camping please don't knock responsible 'mild' camping, but we are grateful that so many use sites and would not wish to discourage this because it leaves so much more space on aires and elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 John 47 - 2013-02-06 9:46 AM rupert123 - 2013-02-06 9:35 AM Is that a fact John47? So on all these places you say you park up for the night you seek out the owner and ask permission, how do you know who the owner is for a start, please enlighten us all. How do you know you are not annoying anyone do you conduct a local survey the next day. I would be willing to bet a large amount that along with others you rarely, if ever, bother to seek out the owner of the carpark, layby etc to ask if it is ok. Quite simple really. I never park on private land without permission. You mention lay-bys; I don't often choose to park in laybys but they are part of the highway and unless there is a TRO banning parking then I would be legally parked in the layby. The same applies to public car parks. If the car park is private - eg a supermarket - then I ask permission; sometimes it is given; sometimes it is not and we move on. Quite often when we stop at a pub or restaurant with a car park I ask if we can stay the night if we eaat or drink there. We have never been refused permission. As for not annoying people, we never park outside anybody's property or where we can clearly be seen from a private property. If anybody is annoyed by what they can't see or can't hear then I'd say that was their problem not mine because I am as entitld to be on public land as they are. I hate generators; our power comes from the solar panel. I don't drop waste; we stay a maximum of two days anywhere. We never stop if there is already a crowd of vans in the area. I've probably stopped near you and you didn't notice! Once again, really. In a previous post you mention ' remote bays down tracks, beaches, half way up a mountain,. All these places will be owned by someone, how do you find the owner of the beach, remote bay or the mountain, answer you do not bother, just so long as you can park up for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 47 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-02-06 10:09 AM John 47 - 2013-02-06 9:46 AM rupert123 - 2013-02-06 9:35 AM Is that a fact John47? So on all these places you say you park up for the night you seek out the owner and ask permission, how do you know who the owner is for a start, please enlighten us all. How do you know you are not annoying anyone do you conduct a local survey the next day. I would be willing to bet a large amount that along with others you rarely, if ever, bother to seek out the owner of the carpark, layby etc to ask if it is ok. Quite simple really. I never park on private land without permission. You mention lay-bys; I don't often choose to park in laybys but they are part of the highway and unless there is a TRO banning parking then I would be legally parked in the layby. The same applies to public car parks. If the car park is private - eg a supermarket - then I ask permission; sometimes it is given; sometimes it is not and we move on. Quite often when we stop at a pub or restaurant with a car park I ask if we can stay the night if we eaat or drink there. We have never been refused permission. As for not annoying people, we never park outside anybody's property or where we can clearly be seen from a private property. If anybody is annoyed by what they can't see or can't hear then I'd say that was their problem not mine because I am as entitld to be on public land as they are. I hate generators; our power comes from the solar panel. I don't drop waste; we stay a maximum of two days anywhere. We never stop if there is already a crowd of vans in the area. I've probably stopped near you and you didn't notice! Once again, really. In a previous post you mention ' remote bays down tracks, beaches, half way up a mountain,. All these places will be owned by someone, how do you find the owner of the beach, remote bay or the mountain, answer you do not bother, just so long as you can park up for free. Again, quite simple really - the beaches, coves and mountains I am talking about are accessed by public highway with public parking spaces at the end of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 We had a favourite "beauty" spot very local to us where we would very often just go and spend the day in our van, sadly like so many places these days blighted by the odd take-away cartons and cans which always makes my heart sink. Since Gwynedd erected a height barrier that option is not open to us, so now we occasionally go down in the car, but surprise surprise people still chuck out their crap, so a "beauty" spot now no longer "blighted" by a white vans, but still picnickers crap, so not all black and white is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-02-06 10:09 AM In a previous post you mention ' remote bays down tracks, beaches, half way up a mountain,. All these places will be owned by someone, how do you find the owner of the beach, remote bay or the mountain, answer you do not bother, just so long as you can park up for free. With respect Henry, does it really matter to you who does what and where if it does not impact on your own enjoyment of the countryside - or are you just being argumentative - it's not like you! Of course it is rarely possible to seek permission as there is generally no way of finding anyone to ask but common sense and respect for others is the key. We have only ever been asked to move once one night in Denmark when a very nice local lady told us that we were in a coastal nature reserve, and would we mind moving to a spot about a km away where we were not - so we thanked her and moved! For many of us being a bit different from the pack and the unknown are all part of the fun - and the thought of saving upwards of a tenner a night by so doing does have an appeal all of it's own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-02-06 10:37 AM We had a favourite "beauty" spot very local to us where we would very often just go and spend the day in our van, sadly like so many places these days blighted by the odd take-away cartons and cans which always makes my heart sink. Since Gwynedd erected a height barrier that option is not open to us, so now we occasionally go down in the car, but surprise surprise people still chuck out their crap, so a "beauty" spot now no longer "blighted" by a white vans, but still picnickers crap, so not all black and white is it ? sorry but in my experience its the general car owning population that just chuck rubbish out window...your own post proves this as the situation has obviously not improved by a height barrier being installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Tracker - 2013-02-06 10:47 AM rupert123 - 2013-02-06 10:09 AM In a previous post you mention ' remote bays down tracks, beaches, half way up a mountain,. All these places will be owned by someone, how do you find the owner of the beach, remote bay or the mountain, answer you do not bother, just so long as you can park up for free. With respect Henry, does it really matter to you who does what and where if it does not impact on your own enjoyment of the countryside - or are you just being argumentative - it's not like you! Of course it is rarely possible to seek permission as there is generally no way of finding anyone to ask but common sense and respect for others is the key. We have only ever been asked to move once one night in Denmark when a very nice local lady told us that we were in a coastal nature reserve, and would we mind moving to a spot about a km away where we were not - so we thanked her and moved! For many of us being a bit different from the pack and the unknown are all part of the fun - and the thought of saving upwards of a tenner a night by so doing does have an appeal all of it's own! It does affect us all Rich. More and more places are putting up barriers, especially in europe, because of m/h camping all over the place. As for being a bit differant, your far to late I reckon more French camp outside of sites than use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 bolero boy - 2013-02-06 9:43 AM Many on here who take the 'posh' out of motorhomers who use site facilities will still be using the same equipment in their vans ie TV, satellite, kettle, radio, laptop, cooker, heater, hair dryers, showers etc, etc. The fact that these devices are versions that run from batteries, inverters, gas, solar, GENERATORS, etc seem to endow the the owner to look down their nose at someone using the same devices with some of them using mains electricity. There is a real inverted snobbishness around about running the same processes in their van but doing it in a side street as opposed to on a campsite. When in spain this winter, we had loads of 'wilders' :-S parked outside the local Lidl with sat dishes up, TVs blaring, doors onto the street wide open and they stayed there for days on end. The vans never moved so Lord knows what happened to all the waste. Anyway, it was free and it was WILD so what do I know? The only 'wild' element was the passers by having to endure the racket. Some of these vans were large Burstners, Cathargos, N+Bs, Concordes, Hymers etc which were in the £100k+ zone yet parking outside Lidl on a street seemed to be the thing. Strange thing to do if its not to save money?? Yes, go up a mountain, park by a lake, drive miles into a deserted forest, go back to Nature, leave all the creature comforts at home and then come on here and tell us all about 'wild camping' but not after a few days on the streeet outside Lidl ;-) You see this is why some get the opinion that wild campers are only in it to save money as these are the types of wilders that are visable! Doesnt sound like my idea of wild camping outside Lidl! At least they wont have to go far for some cheap booze and crap food. I agree. I cant see any other reason to stop there unless its for a short stopover (which it clearly wasnt) or to save cash on campsites. Even I would rather be on a site than a Lidl car park. These people need to take their posh vans and make some effort to find some proper wild spots. Actually no they dont. Lidl is the place to go everyone!! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 A Lidl car park late at night when you are just looking for a bit of kip en-route seems OK to me. Or would you prefer I disturbed you either on arrival or early departure. You can't win can you, damned of you do,damned if you don't :-S As for crap food, seems you can get that anywhere, especially if your into burgers :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-02-06 2:47 PM A Lidl car park late at night when you are just looking for a bit of kip en-route seems OK to me. Or would you prefer I disturbed you either on arrival or early departure. You can't win can you, damned of you do,damned if you don't :-S Just remember you said that,the next time you encounter a supermarket carpark with a height barrier.. ;-) (..that probably got installed because the shop owners/local residents got fed up with it being used as an impromptu leisure vehicle encampment... ;-) ) Besides,I had you down as more of a Waitrose kind of chap...? (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 pepe63 - 2013-02-06 3:10 PM 1footinthegrave - 2013-02-06 2:47 PM A Lidl car park late at night when you are just looking for a bit of kip en-route seems OK to me. Or would you prefer I disturbed you either on arrival or early departure. You can't win can you, damned of you do,damned if you don't :-S Just remember you said that,the next time you encounter a supermarket carpark with a height barrier.. ;-) (..that probably got installed because the shop owners/local residents got fed up with it being used as an impromptu leisure vehicle encampment... ;-) ) Besides,I had you down as more of a Waitrose kind of chap...? (lol) I can never find one in France, and to be frank only ever stayed once on a Lidl car park once in France after getting really lost late at night that was in a deserted out of town site, and was gone before it was open again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Oh no, guys: not the Lidl carpark. This was camping on the side street across from Lidl - so 'really wild'. Yes, I appreciate that many campers do stop well off the beaten track as well as some in supermarket carparks. We even saw half a dozen vans in a 'car park', in fact piece of waste ground, the sort of housing estate wasteground which you would do well to avoid in Bristol or the like. This actual 'car park' was actually recommended by a member of this forum as a stop over. I'm not knocking WC (wild camping) as we have been in this state sever times when out in the country and the only van on an aire. My point is that this nomenclature WC seems to evoke images of the Old West with wagon trains yet the occupants are still watching Eastenders, cooking on a stove while Facetiming the grandkids! Just because some people like campsites and dont seem to understand why some should just stop wherever they like (not necessarily me, I may add) dont go all down on them with this reverse snobbish attitude. Yes, we get it that certain posters dont like site - check. Just dont get all saintly about it over Countdown and your McDonalds ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-02-06 2:47 PM A Lidl car park late at night when you are just looking for a bit of kip en-route seems OK to me. Or would you prefer I disturbed you either on arrival or early departure. You can't win can you, damned of you do,damned if you don't :-S As for crap food, seems you can get that anywhere, especially if your into burgers :D Plus unlike the UK stores the ones around the Med have decent bread and excellent croissants!! :-D meat not so good, chicken full of water ..but for fruit/veg and other stuff why on earth would you support the big bully boy supermarkets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 bolero boy - 2013-02-06 5:06 PM Oh no, guys: not the Lidl carpark. This was camping on the side street across from Lidl - so 'really wild'. Oooh!...So they they were really going for it in a free spirted, nonconformist,road-warrior kind of way then... (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Perhaps someone should publish a handbook entitled "How to use a Motor home " then we'd have the definitive guide ( well only according to the author of course ) :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I think this link, that Derek posted earlier in the thread,sums it up nicely... http://www.camperstop.co.uk/ (..especially the final paragraph "Off Site Parking".) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 We are currently in Portugal wild camping where we can, some places it is encouraged by the community and councils some it is not, for instance, Silves currently has about 100 Motorhomes on it's car parks and all are welcome. Quarteira has opened a new Aire 2 Euros a night , I was wild camping on the Quarteira fish market with about 50 other vans and in the morning of the fourth night at 8am I was woken by the police and fined 30 Euros and told that all must use the new Aire. Wild Camping is NOT about being too tight to pay for a camp site it is about not being herded in small areas such as Campsites, try wild camping on a secluded beach somewhere and you will realise what I mean, I don't suggest Wild Camping is for all , it is not, any way we don't want too many of you doing it as it would become too crowded. I have not heard about the tyre slashing story , I am sure I would have heard it if it were true, as stories such as that soon get around. So we will continue wildcamping where and when we can as we love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 vindiboy - 2013-02-06 6:14 PM ...I was wild camping on the Quarteira fish market with about 50 other vans and in the morning of the fourth night at 8am I was woken by the police and fined 30 Euros and told that all must use the new Aire. Wild Camping is NOT about being too tight to pay for a camp site it is about not being herded in small areas such as Campsites.... ..eh? :-S "...50 other vans..". and yet wildcamping is, ."...about not being herded.." ? (lol) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-02-06 5:16 PM 1footinthegrave - 2013-02-06 2:47 PM A Lidl car park late at night when you are just looking for a bit of kip en-route seems OK to me. Or would you prefer I disturbed you either on arrival or early departure. You can't win can you, damned of you do,damned if you don't :-S As for crap food, seems you can get that anywhere, especially if your into burgers :D Plus unlike the UK stores the ones around the Med have decent bread and excellent croissants!! :-D meat not so good, chicken full of water ..but for fruit/veg and other stuff why on earth would you support the big bully boy supermarkets! I stand corrected Judge. You are quite right. Lidl abroad does have some good stuff and the bread aint half bad. Lidl in Germany does some pretty good beer for around 15c a bottle and in France I have had a good Leffe copy Abbaye beer but the real stuff is peanuts anyway. Their cheese is really dire though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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