Cliffy Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Went to check on the motorhome today. first time since before Christmas due to the weather. Checked the battery levels and both the Leisure and Engine batteries were at about 12.3 Volts which was unusually low.. When I tried to start the engine it just turned over very slowly and would not start. I then realised that the van had 4 inches of snow on it which meant no light getting to the solar panel for the past three weeks to keep the batteries topped up. I could not get on to the roof to clear the panel and the Heki was frozen shut. I don.'t want to take the battery off and bring it home for charging for various reasons, (Alarm, battery master, Radio Code etc). So I thought as the snow is due to clear by the weekend I would leave it for another week or so and let the solar panel re-charge the batteries. The temperature will be higher 9 degrees as aposed to zero at present, which would help with starting. Do you good people think this is wise or should I chance taking the battery off and leaving it with no alarm overnight (It is in secure storage). Thanks in advance Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I assume the van is not close enough to power for an ehu? In which case can you get your car close enough to jump start (keep the engine running while you do)? Or if you can get hold of a good spare battery to jump start from? 12.3 volts should not harm the batteries but you don't really want to leave it too much longer. Once started can you take it for a drive to help recharge and is there any chance you can park it close enough for an overnight ehu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yes it is 7 miles away out in the country side. I can't get the car to it yet as the snow is still 6 inches deep along the line of vans, so I have to walk the last 50 yards or so, I an concerned about jump starting it as I have heard horror stories about burning the engine electronics out and the battery has a Van Bitz battery master connected to it, I don't know what effect it might have on that. I think I am getting over cautious in my old age. :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooie Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Is there any way you could Beg, Steal or Borrow a Generator ? That way you`ll be charging the Batteries through the vans charging system as if on EHU. Yes i know i`ve said the Demon Words and i apologise for the " Filth " that i`ve just typed but even the " Know It Alls " might just accept that this is an Exceptional Case especially if you swear " Hand On Heart " that this will be a 1 Off . A couple of litres of fuel would save you all the aggravation of removing the battery etc. etc. It`s only a thought, that`s all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Cliffy - 2013-01-24 10:52 PM I am concerned about jump starting it as I have heard horror stories about burning the engine electronics out and the battery has a Van Bitz battery master connected to it, I don't know what effect it might have on that. I think I am getting over cautious in my old age. :$ Caution is never a bad thing where expensive electronics is concerned! Why not phone Van Bitz and ask about any risk - or pull the fuse before starting? I've jump started many a van (and car) over the years and never had a problem - but that does not mean you won't!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 THe "Battery Master" (BM) has integrated fuses, so (if Cliffy is really concerned that jump-starting the vehicle might harm the BM) it may be necessary to physically disconnect it to be 100% sure. As you say, Van Bitz should be able to advise on the risk factor, though the following statement on the BM-related section of the Van Bitz website "...it is common knowledge that you must disconnect the engine battery terminals before attempting to charge the battery" makes me wonder what the response will be. Perhaps worth highlighting is that a BM allows only a 1.1Amp charge to transfer from leisure-battery to starter-battery. When Cliffy's motorhome is on EHU with its on-board battery-charger operating, the BM will 'trickle charge' the starter-battery. When his motorhome is off EHU and static, the leisure-battery (assuming that its charge-state exceeds that of the starter-battery) will pass charge to the starter-battery to maintain the latter's charge. If Cliffy's motorhome were now connected to an EHU (or a generator used to simulate an EHU) it's going to take a long time to raise the charge of the starter-battery significantly via the Battery Master given that only a transfer rate of 1.1Amp is available. The best way forward will really depend on whether the primary objective is to start the motor or to raise the charge of both batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooie Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Derek Uzzell - 2013-01-25 2:58 PM THe "Battery Master" (BM) has integrated fuses, so (if Cliffy is really concerned that jump-starting the vehicle might harm the BM) it may be necessary to physically disconnect it to be 100% sure. As you say, Van Bitz should be able to advise on the risk factor, though the following statement on the BM-related section of the Van Bitz website "...it is common knowledge that you must disconnect the engine battery terminals before attempting to charge the battery" makes me wonder what the response will be. Perhaps worth highlighting is that a BM allows only a 1.1Amp charge to transfer from leisure-battery to starter-battery. When Cliffy's motorhome is on EHU with its on-board battery-charger operating, the BM will 'trickle charge' the starter-battery. When his motorhome is off EHU and static, the leisure-battery (assuming that its charge-state exceeds that of the starter-battery) will pass charge to the starter-battery to maintain the latter's charge. If Cliffy's motorhome were now connected to an EHU (or a generator used to simulate an EHU) it's going to take a long time to raise the charge of the starter-battery significantly via the Battery Master given that only a transfer rate of 1.1Amp is available. The best way forward will really depend on whether the primary objective is to start the motor or to raise the charge of both batteries. Not having a Battery Master myself i presumed that once the van was connected to EHU be that via a Generator or Mains the Conversions own charging system would take over the charging of both the Vehicle and Leisure batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Update Thanks for the helpful suggestions. The situation is, I do not need to start the engne as yet but I did not want the three batteries to die on me because they had become completely discharged. I had lined up a friend with a generator if absolutely necessary but I went down today and cleared around 5 inches of snow and a layer of ice off the solar panel after which the solar panel controler reports a 0.4 amp charge going in to the batteries even though it was quite overcast. I waited around for 30 minutes and the ECU was reporting the leisure battery at 12.6 volts and the engine battery at 12.4 volts. I realise this will be picking up the input from the solar panel now but I think we are goting in the right direction. I did not try to start the engine this morning. I will leave it for a week and try it next weekend when it is forcast to be 9 degrees and sunny. Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dwight Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Cliffy, I have had to jump start our van, it has a Vanbitz battery master, if you connect the jump leads to the correct points it should not make any difference, to the battery master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 David Dwight - 2013-01-25 9:08 PM Cliffy, I have had to jump start our van, it has a Vanbitz battery master, if you connect the jump leads to the correct points it should not make any difference, to the battery master. Thanks for the reasurance. I am now hoping it wont need to be jumped off. The jump start procedure is spelt out in the Fiat hanbook so I think you are right as long as I take care it should be alright. I was suprised that when charging a battery it must be disconected from the vehicle. When I was younger I had cars that always needed the battery charging and I never disconected it with no ill effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I was in exactly the same situation, except that my van is parked in the driveway. The voltages on all batts were down to 12.4. I cleared the snow and after a few days they are all back to 13.4V+ during midday sun. Don't worry, just leave it. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Hilux - 2013-01-26 7:57 PM The voltages on all batts were down to 12.4. I cleared the snow and after a few days they are all back to 13.4V+ during midday sun. That's like checking the engine battery with the engine running!! They will show those voltages when they are on charge because that is the charge voltage and it only proves that the panel and regulator are working properly. You need to check at night when there is no charge going in and you may well find it not quite so optimistic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 Thanks H I am sure all will be OK by next weekend Thanks Tracker for the encouraging post (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Cliffy - 2013-01-25 10:20 PM David Dwight - 2013-01-25 9:08 PM Cliffy, I have had to jump start our van, it has a Vanbitz battery master, if you connect the jump leads to the correct points it should not make any difference, to the battery master. Thanks for the reasurance. I am now hoping it wont need to be jumped off. The jump start procedure is spelt out in the Fiat hanbook so I think you are right as long as I take care it should be alright. I was suprised that when charging a battery it must be disconected from the vehicle. When I was younger I had cars that always needed the battery charging and I never disconected it with no ill effects. Although it's often advised (viz the Van Bitz website) that a vehicle battery MUST be disconnected before beng charged - and there's no doubt that disconnecting the battery will remove any possibility of the charging process causing harm - the chances are minimal that charging 'connected' will cause problems provided that commonsense is used. The AA's advice on safe jump-starting is here: http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/breakdown_advice/using-jumpleads.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Cliffy - 2013-01-26 8:33 PM Thanks H I am sure all will be OK by next weekend Thanks Tracker for the encouraging post (lol) Sorry Cliffy - but that is the reality of any form of battery charging! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 UPDATE 2 Went to storage site today. Van started first turn and the all battery voltages back to normal. Note to self ! When snow is on the ground for long periods, clear the snow off the solar panel weekly. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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