Islamic terrorism in Mali

[John 47]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 10:44 AM

 

Once again you do not address the point, but instead ridicule.

 

Perhaps you or the other bloke can explain the contradiction, "he's a Muslim, but not the least bit religious"

First of all a Muslim is not a nationality so it would have made more sense to say he's Turkish for arguments sake, and not the least bit religious, perhaps he has a problem with Islam as well. ?

 

Answers on a post card please ;-)

 

Is that sane enough for you ?

 

But at least I read posts before criticising them!

 

If you had taken the trouble to read all of the post in question you will see that there are TWO individuals being talked about. You conveniently ignore the other one because he doesn't fit into your warped view of what a Muslim should be. Unfortunately for you, he represents the majority in the experience of most of us.

[Barryd999]

The argument put forward is pretty much condemning all Muslims as terrorists who's primary aim is to wipe out / take over the west. I am simply trying to point out by example that this is bollox.

 

My friends are still Muslims. To point Out their country of origin is irrelevant to the thread as the bile is about the clear hatred of Muslim people. Some of them are religious. About as religious as I am. There are some bonkers Islamic laws stated in the koran as there are equally some bonkers stuff in the bible. Both religions however if followed moderately and with a modern approach have some excellent qualities.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

John 47 - 2013-02-05 10:58 AM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 10:44 AM

 

Once again you do not address the point, but instead ridicule.

 

Perhaps you or the other bloke can explain the contradiction, "he's a Muslim, but not the least bit religious"

First of all a Muslim is not a nationality so it would have made more sense to say he's Turkish for arguments sake, and not the least bit religious, perhaps he has a problem with Islam as well. ?

 

Answers on a post card please ;-)

 

Is that sane enough for you ?

 

But at least I read posts before criticising them!

 

If you had taken the trouble to read all of the post in question you will see that there are TWO individuals being talked about. You conveniently ignore the other one because he doesn't fit into your warped view of what a Muslim should be. Unfortunately for you, he represents the majority in the experience of most of us.

 

Is there at any point any chance of getting an answer from you, rather than insults all the time ?

 

I'll try once again..........I'm trying to understand, and if you want me to be converted to another point of view an answer would help.

 

As for the Arab bloke divorcing his wife instead of stoning to death, well was I really supposed to take that seriously ? just mischief from the poster, despite that it does happen on occasions, but I'm not stupid enough to think it is an everyday occurrence, but non the less it does happen, yes or no. ?

 

Perhaps you or the other bloke can explain the contradiction, "he's a Muslim, but not the least bit religious"

First of all a Muslim is not a nationality so it would have made more sense to say he's Turkish for arguments sake, and not the least bit religious, perhaps he has a problem with Islam as well. ?

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Barryd999 - 2013-02-05 11:16 AM

 

The argument put forward is pretty much condemning all Muslims as terrorists who's primary aim is to wipe out / take over the west. I am simply trying to point out by example that this is bollox.

 

Both religions however if followed moderately and with a modern approach have some excellent qualities.

 

Well that's really the nuts and bolts of the matter, and would be the ideal. However Islam needs to get up to speed with the modern world, not to try to change or destroy ours, as is the stated aim of the Taliban for instance.

 

 

[John 47]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 11:16 AM

 

John 47 - 2013-02-05 10:58 AM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 10:44 AM

 

Once again you do not address the point, but instead ridicule.

 

Perhaps you or the other bloke can explain the contradiction, "he's a Muslim, but not the least bit religious"

First of all a Muslim is not a nationality so it would have made more sense to say he's Turkish for arguments sake, and not the least bit religious, perhaps he has a problem with Islam as well. ?

 

Answers on a post card please ;-)

 

Is that sane enough for you ?

 

But at least I read posts before criticising them!

 

If you had taken the trouble to read all of the post in question you will see that there are TWO individuals being talked about. You conveniently ignore the other one because he doesn't fit into your warped view of what a Muslim should be. Unfortunately for you, he represents the majority in the experience of most of us.

 

Is there at any point any chance of getting an answer from you, rather than insults all the time ?

 

I'll try once again..........I'm trying to understand, and if you want me to be converted to another point of view an answer would help.

 

As for the Arab bloke divorcing his wife instead of stoning to death, well was I really supposed to take that seriously ? just mischief from the poster, despite that it does happen on occasions, but I'm not stupid enough to think it is an everyday occurrence, but non the less it does happen, yes or no. ?

 

Perhaps you or the other bloke can explain the contradiction, "he's a Muslim, but not the least bit religious"

First of all a Muslim is not a nationality so it would have made more sense to say he's Turkish for arguments sake, and not the least bit religious, perhaps he has a problem with Islam as well. ?

 

I see! When other people report information about Muslims behaving in a civilised way that is mischief; when you claim that they are all trying to impose sharia law on us and go round beheading and stoning people, that is supposed to be informed debate. I will try to once again get past those feet in your mouth - THE MAJORITY ARE DECENT CIVILISED PEOPLE. That is my answer to all your points; it may not be an answer you enjoy but it is the only one you are going to get until you open your eyes and recognise reality.

 

And if you really are trying to understand then you could start by apologising for your statement that you do not give a damn about the innocent majority of Muslims. Then perhaps we can debate rationally.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

John 47 - 2013-02-05 11:51 AM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 11:16 AM

 

John 47 - 2013-02-05 10:58 AM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 10:44 AM

 

Once again you do not address the point, but instead ridicule.

 

Perhaps you or the other bloke can explain the contradiction, "he's a Muslim, but not the least bit religious"

First of all a Muslim is not a nationality so it would have made more sense to say he's Turkish for arguments sake, and not the least bit religious, perhaps he has a problem with Islam as well. ?

 

Answers on a post card please ;-)

 

Is that sane enough for you ?

 

But at least I read posts before criticising them!

 

If you had taken the trouble to read all of the post in question you will see that there are TWO individuals being talked about. You conveniently ignore the other one because he doesn't fit into your warped view of what a Muslim should be. Unfortunately for you, he represents the majority in the experience of most of us.

 

Is there at any point any chance of getting an answer from you, rather than insults all the time ?

 

I'll try once again..........I'm trying to understand, and if you want me to be converted to another point of view an answer would help.

 

As for the Arab bloke divorcing his wife instead of stoning to death, well was I really supposed to take that seriously ? just mischief from the poster, despite that it does happen on occasions, but I'm not stupid enough to think it is an everyday occurrence, but non the less it does happen, yes or no. ?

 

Perhaps you or the other bloke can explain the contradiction, "he's a Muslim, but not the least bit religious"

First of all a Muslim is not a nationality so it would have made more sense to say he's Turkish for arguments sake, and not the least bit religious, perhaps he has a problem with Islam as well. ?

 

I see! When other people report information about Muslims behaving in a civilised way that is mischief; when you claim that they are all trying to impose sharia law on us and go round beheading and stoning people, that is supposed to be informed debate. I will try to once again get past those feet in your mouth - THE MAJORITY ARE DECENT CIVILISED PEOPLE. That is my answer to all your points; it may not be an answer you enjoy but it is the only one you are going to get until you open your eyes and recognise reality.

 

And if you really are trying to understand then you could start by apologising for your statement that you do not give a damn about the innocent majority of Muslims. Then perhaps we can debate rationally.

 

So once again you fail to answer a question, and yet accuse me of" feet in my my mouth" not very funny or original, just as well your pupils did not take that line, you would have been tearing your hair out.

 

Anyway perhaps I've come up with a solution, so here's the deal

 

If we do not here of not a single incident for one week of an Islamist carrying out

 

A suicide bombing

A summary execution

An amputation of limbs

A Honour killing

A foiled Islamic terrorist attack

A successful Islamic terrorist attack

A murdered UK soldier

 

I'll consider I'm on the wrong side of the argument, so I'll check back on this thread in a weeks time, and we can compare notes, then have a "rational" debate.. ;-)

[John 47]

So once again you fail to answer a question, and yet accuse me of" feet in my my mouth" not very funny or original, just as well your pupils did not take that line, you would have been tearing your hair out.

 

Anyway perhaps I've come up with a solution, so here's the deal

 

If we do not here of not a single incident for one week of an Islamist carrying out

 

A suicide bombing

A summary execution

An amputation of limbs

A Honour killing

A foiled Islamic terrorist attack

A successful Islamic terrorist attack

A murdered UK soldier

 

I'll consider I'm on the wrong side of the argument, so I'll check back on this thread in a weeks time, and we can compare notes, then have a "rational" debate.. ;-)

 

There is one simple reason why you will never win this argument: you claim that Islam is evil and everybody who adheres to that religion is by implication supprting terrorism; I claim that, of course terrorism exists but that the majority of Muslims are opposed to it. You therefore have to show that the examples you quote are typical - which, of course, is impossible. There are millions of Muslims in the world and you can only ever list tens, maybe hundreds, of examples of Islamic terrorism. Each one, of course, is indefensible. Each perpetrator deserves the bile of all of us - and gets it. But when you lump millions of innocent people in with the crime you make yourself look ridiculous. Your "offer" is therefore nonsense.

 

You keep claiming that I have not answered the question. On the contrary, it is you who have not answered it - for one very simple reason: there is no answer that supports your bigoted view.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Well like I said come back in a weeks time and we'll compare figures, Christians versus Islamic atrocities during the coming week, seems fair enough to me.

 

Or maybe they will all have a simultaneous vision telling the they worship a false idol, then it will go very quite and you'll win the bet, can't say fairer than that really. See you same time next week then. ;-)

 

Oh, and should that happen it will not only me be rejoicing but most of the Muslim world that get caught up in this madness daily. ;-) including their women ;-)

[John 47]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 3:38 PM

 

Well like I said come back in a weeks time and we'll compare figures, Christians versus Islamic atrocities during the coming week, seems fair enough to me.

 

Or maybe they will all have a simultaneous vision telling the they worship a false idol, then it will go very quite and you'll win the bet, can't say fairer than that really. See you same time next week then. ;-)

 

Oh, and should that happen it will not only me be rejoicing but most of the Muslim world that get caught up in this madness daily. ;-) including their women ;-)

 

I'm quite prepared to compare figures if you accept that the figures for any atrocities represent only a tiny percentage of the groups that those people claim to be members of. Is it a deal?

 

I'll start the ball rolling:

 

In 2012, there were 2,500 cases of grooming of young girls reported. In 2012, there were some 2,500,000 people of Asian origin in the UK. So even if ALL cases of grooming were attributable to Asians and even if each reported case referred to a different Asian male the highest figure you can come to is that 0.1% of Asians are guilty of grooming. All of those perpetrators deserve everything we can throw at them but the fact remains that 99.9% (plus) of Asians are innocent.

 

As I said, you can never win this argument as long as you insist that all of any group are culpable in the crimes of a few who happen to claim the same religious beliefs.

 

 

 

 

[CliveH]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 12:14 PM

 

John 47 - 2013-02-05 11:51 AM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 11:16 AM

 

John 47 - 2013-02-05 10:58 AM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 10:44 AM

 

Once again you do not address the point, but instead ridicule.

 

Perhaps you or the other bloke can explain the contradiction, "he's a Muslim, but not the least bit religious"

First of all a Muslim is not a nationality so it would have made more sense to say he's Turkish for arguments sake, and not the least bit religious, perhaps he has a problem with Islam as well. ?

 

Answers on a post card please ;-)

 

Is that sane enough for you ?

 

But at least I read posts before criticising them!

 

If you had taken the trouble to read all of the post in question you will see that there are TWO individuals being talked about. You conveniently ignore the other one because he doesn't fit into your warped view of what a Muslim should be. Unfortunately for you, he represents the majority in the experience of most of us.

 

Is there at any point any chance of getting an answer from you, rather than insults all the time ?

 

I'll try once again..........I'm trying to understand, and if you want me to be converted to another point of view an answer would help.

 

As for the Arab bloke divorcing his wife instead of stoning to death, well was I really supposed to take that seriously ? just mischief from the poster, despite that it does happen on occasions, but I'm not stupid enough to think it is an everyday occurrence, but non the less it does happen, yes or no. ?

 

Perhaps you or the other bloke can explain the contradiction, "he's a Muslim, but not the least bit religious"

First of all a Muslim is not a nationality so it would have made more sense to say he's Turkish for arguments sake, and not the least bit religious, perhaps he has a problem with Islam as well. ?

 

I see! When other people report information about Muslims behaving in a civilised way that is mischief; when you claim that they are all trying to impose sharia law on us and go round beheading and stoning people, that is supposed to be informed debate. I will try to once again get past those feet in your mouth - THE MAJORITY ARE DECENT CIVILISED PEOPLE. That is my answer to all your points; it may not be an answer you enjoy but it is the only one you are going to get until you open your eyes and recognise reality.

 

And if you really are trying to understand then you could start by apologising for your statement that you do not give a damn about the innocent majority of Muslims. Then perhaps we can debate rationally.

 

So once again you fail to answer a question, and yet accuse me of" feet in my my mouth" not very funny or original, just as well your pupils did not take that line, you would have been tearing your hair out.

 

Anyway perhaps I've come up with a solution, so here's the deal

 

If we do not here of not a single incident for one week of an Islamist carrying out

 

A suicide bombing

A summary execution

An amputation of limbs

A Honour killing

A foiled Islamic terrorist attack

A successful Islamic terrorist attack

A murdered UK soldier

 

I'll consider I'm on the wrong side of the argument, so I'll check back on this thread in a weeks time, and we can compare notes, then have a "rational" debate.. ;-)

 

By the same token - are we to condemn the Catholic religion and catholics in general if we have yet further revelations about the appalling treatment of your girls in Ireland right up until the 1990's by the catholic Church?

 

And peadophile priests? Surely if we can condemn ALL Muslims for not standing up to extremists - we can say the same to catholics for turning a blind eye to what their Priest was up to?

 

And the next time an innocent is killed by the gun or the bomb in Northern Ireland - surely we would be justified in labelling the whole damn lot as sympathisers??

 

(Sarc is on!)

[CliveH]

I see the population in Tunisia have rebelled against the government that after their revolution that was the birthplace of the Arab Spring, became under the influence of Islamic extremists.

 

The opposition leader has been shot and killed (Which goes to show just how dangerous these extremists are! - dar to disagree with them and they shoot you!) but rather than do nothing - the population has demanded a new government and it looks like from the news this morning - they will get it.

 

The population (Muslim) is asking for democracy and is rejecting the Islamic extremism.

 

 

 

 

 

[John 47]

CliveH - 2013-02-07 5:41 AM

 

I see the population in Tunisia have rebelled against the government that after their revolution that was the birthplace of the Arab Spring, became under the influence of Islamic extremists.

 

The opposition leader has been shot and killed (Which goes to show just how dangerous these extremists are! - dar to disagree with them and they shoot you!) but rather than do nothing - the population has demanded a new government and it looks like from the news this morning - they will get it.

 

The population (Muslim) is asking for democracy and is rejecting the Islamic extremism.

 

 

 

 

 

Very brave people - as were those who risked getting shot in Tahrir Square, Cairo. When anyone stands up to bullies they deserve our support, not our condemnation just because of their religion. The Tunisian people are among the most delightful I have met - I hope things turn out well for them.

[CliveH]

Agreed re their respective bravery. I have had no experience of "North" Africa specifically, my experience was very much in Northern Kenya, which is close enough! - and as some are all too aware - this area is now very unsafe for Westerners. But whilst i was there - admittedly some time ago, the people were absolutely great.

 

They had a great work ethic and apart from the "tomorrow" issue we had no problems.

 

We used to say "Well it is Africa after all!"

 

To think that these and other gentle people who loved to sing would be subject to the abuse and amputations for singing songs and playing a guitar is too awful to contemplate.

 

If we get this right - as I believe the French have done in Mali - we could gain a lot - an awful lot! - of goodwill if we support the moderate Muslims to rid them of the extremists.

 

Labelling them all the same and ignoring their plight would be the worst "own goal" ever.

 

 

[nightrider]

At the end of the day people would like to see worldwide peace with no starvation and not living in hovels, with the technology we have why is the world in such turmoil? One half of the world is trying to move to the more prosperous side of the world, something will have to give?

[John 47]

CliveH - 2013-02-07 8:47 AM

 

Agreed re their respective bravery. I have had no experience of "North" Africa specifically, my experience was very much in Northern Kenya, which is close enough! - and as some are all too aware - this area is now very unsafe for Westerners. But whilst i was there - admittedly some time ago, the people were absolutely great.

 

They had a great work ethic and apart from the "tomorrow" issue we had no problems.

 

We used to say "Well it is Africa after all!"

 

To think that these and other gentle people who loved to sing would be subject to the abuse and amputations for singing songs and playing a guitar is too awful to contemplate.

 

If we get this right - as I believe the French have done in Mali - we could gain a lot - an awful lot! - of goodwill if we support the moderate Muslims to rid them of the extremists.

 

Labelling them all the same and ignoring their plight would be the worst "own goal" ever.

 

 

True. I had to laugh at the "tomorrow" bit - I think it is probably the most frustrating thing about living among Muslims. I had to learn not to ask "does the train go from here to wherever?" because the answer always was "god willing, of course" because they don't want you to be upset! If you are a good person and wait patiently, god will provide a train! I soon learned to ask to see a copy of the timetable!

 

 

[John 47]

knight of the road - 2013-02-07 9:01 AM

 

At the end of the day people would like to see worldwide peace with no starvation and not living in hovels, with the technology we have why is the world in such turmoil? One half of the world is trying to move to the more prosperous side of the world, something will have to give?

 

Unfortunately, although if you ask them people will say they want more fairness in the world, when it comes to it a lot of people are unwilling to give up what they've got. We humans are a very selfish lot really - I don't know what the answer is but I am not very optimistic about the future. The very large gap between those that have and those that don't is a recipe for disaster.