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New bedroom tax


nightrider

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Mistake or not, that right cannot be clawed back from those who took advantage of it, but let's not forget that it allowed thousands to get on the housing ladder, it also took the burden of maintenance and upkeep of those thousands of houses away from the councils, they saved £millions in running and repair costs as well as the £millions from the sale of the properties.

The only thing I strongly object to as a home owning council tax payer is the part of my council tax charged for social housing for others. Our council ( Blaenau Gwent) sold off all it's housing stock to a private concern (Tai Calon), and yet we are still charged for social housing, maybe a legal action should be launched against this.

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pepe63 - 2013-01-30 7:32 PM

 

Yes agree 1foot' it is their choice...but it's a choice that they paid to have..

 

But I wasn't aware that the government were going to start throwing folk out onto the street...just expecting them to fund any bedrooms that they don't "need"..

 

And if these folk are elderly..did these "spare" bedrooms suddenly appear?...did their kids "suddenly" get married and move out overnight?

No.. they didn't.They've probably been rattling around in a 3-4 bed' council house for the last 20-30+ years..That's plenty of time to sort something more approriate for when they got older...

The fact is they knew they were on a good thing,so they stayed put and kept quiet..but the system allowed them to do so....

Personally I think once folk no longer meet the criteria that gained them the council house in the first place(..be it increased income or kids grown up and moved out, etc),then at the least,they should be paying the market rate for the rent...

 

(..and don't joke about rounding folk up and shooting 'em...the Tories are saving that for their second term... ;-) )

pepe,

I think you are quite wrong in your condemnation of elderly couples living in a council house with more bedrooms than they actually need, its only in the last year or so that this situation has arisen due to the large numbers of immigrants coming in. At one time a council house was for life and no one even the councils had a problem with that as long as the rent was paid. It is up to the council to provide suitable smaller properties and ask in a firm but polite way would the tenant be prepared to move all expenses paid not just hammer their welfare benefits, despite what the tuppenchalfpenny well heeled members of this group think there is no pleasure to be hounded to death claiming welfare benefits, it is soul destroying. I know a couple who unfortunately they are not the brightest in the bunch, they live in a 3 bedroom council house and their benefits have been savagely cut and are living on £51 per week they live eat and sleep in the front bedroom, can't afford to turn the heating on in this cold weather, the house is brutally cold, they have begged the council to rehouse them in a 1 bed flat, but the council say they dont have any, so whats the solution??

 

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pepe63 - 2013-01-30 8:17 PM

 

We wouldn't have half of these housing issues if,

 

a) They hadn't sold off the council houses..

 

and

 

b) The bl**dy "Buy to let" brigade,didn't help 'emselves to the affordable housing and therefore driving the prices up!

 

:-S

Buy to let people are parasites, they buy up repossessed properties and rent them out for rents that would make your eyes water, as for buying your council house at a discount I dont see anything wrong with that, what that does is to give people a stake in their community and in fact raises the standards of council estates and prevents them from "sinking", The problem with selling councils house was the fact that the monies raised could not be used by the councils to build more new houses the monies went back to central government.

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Once they have established this bedroom tax on council houses you can bet your bottom dollar that they will make moves against the private sector to force them to downsize or put their community charge up, so where might that leave me? I live in an ex Methodist church manse house with 6 bedrooms of which 4 are empty, they are used for family and friends to stay over occasionally.
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Hmmmm lots of points to respond to:

 

Knight.....over my dead body ..or past my shotgun.  I pay council tax based on the appropriate banding, get naff all from the State, have paid in all my life so trying to get me to pay extra because I have on or two bedrooms unoccupied unless we have visitors is not going to happen.

 

pepe63....those that 'sell up and downsize do so by choice, either lifestyle or financial reasons.  Those in 'social/council houses' will have no choice.

Those that have to sell to meet care home fees have therefore no need for their house.  However it boils my pi55 that those who have sponged all their lives get care home fees etc paid for them whilst those of us who were brought up properly and were fiscally aware are financially hammered.

 

1foot....The 'right to buy' was IMO a really good idea that was totally mismanaged by the Council Authorities (like everything else they seem to get involved in).  The idea was to sell off/reduce older housing stock which was costing them too much in maintenance fees.  The resulting income from the sale of Council houses was 'supposed' to be (to use the modern term) ringfenced and put towards the construction of new housing stock.  At the time my parents were in a 4 bed Council house with only the two of them rattling around in it.  It was very expensive to heat (night storage heaters) and they desperately wanted to move.  When a 2 bed house (Council) became available they were in a position to be able to buy it (get a mortgage) and did so freeing up a 4 bed for a larger family and taking the upkeep etc off the Council books and pouring tens of thousands into Council coffers. Proceeds of the sales were paid to the local authorities, but they were restricted to spending the money to reduce their debt until it was cleared which would have freed up funds to build more desperately needed housing.  However as with everything the ar5eholes in charge messed things up and the funds were absorbed.....probably into 'non jobs' and gold plated pensions.

 

Folks, the bottom line is that you, me and every other member of the 'non elite' are being..... and are going to be shafted one way or another and unless there is serious civil unrest there's not a damn thing we can do to stop it.  Vive la Revolution!!!!

 

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Guest 1footinthegrave

There is something always missing in this "debate"and a lot of irony, my brother was cannon fodder he worked ( as I did for a time ) as a Bus driver for West Midlands PTE, lousy wages, but an essential ( well in those days ) service for millions, he could never get a mortgage in the good old days of 2.5 income, so he was "given" a council house, when the average cost of a house was around £3000, yes you heard right. £3000, he worked on the buses right up to retirement age, 65, non of that public sector 50/55 malarky, and paid his rent all those years.

 

Over the years his rent only went in one direction UP, whilst at the same time in real terms mortgage payments went down. So with the exception of exterior maintenance costs, well a rough coat of paint every ten years if he was lucky, at the end of it all he ended up with NOTHING, he died, and his wife not long after. The average house that others were able to buy at that time for around £3000, were worth £200,000 when he died, so after paying rent for 37 years when most mortgage payers finished after 25 or 30 years his kids got nothing, and he had a hard life, no real luxuries only ever an old second hand car, and holidays at Butlins. If he and his missus were alive now, he'd be one of the ones being further impoverished, or forced to move out to some dump, hardly fair or right do you think.

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Please please stop referring to benefit claiments as scroungers, some are but most of them are not, they are just the ones that have been caught up in the banks and money mens machinations of greed. By slagging off and calling your own kind of people you are just allowing the powers to be to divide and conquer, strenght is in unity, next time I read one of you saying welfare benefit claiments are all scroungers I will find out where you live and punch you in the gob.
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knight of the road - 2013-01-30 9:26 PM

 

Please please stop referring to benefit claiments as scroungers, some are but most of them are not, they are just the ones that have been caught up in the banks and money mens machinations of greed. By slagging off and calling your own kind of people you are just allowing the powers to be to divide and conquer, strenght is in unity, next time I read one of you saying welfare benefit claiments are all scroungers I will find out where you live and punch you in the gob.

 

Count me in for that as well, as old as I am, ;-)

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knight of the road - 2013-01-30 9:26 PM

 

Please please stop referring to benefit claiments as scroungers, some are but most of them are not, they are just the ones that have been caught up in the banks and money mens machinations of greed. By slagging off and calling your own kind of people you are just allowing the powers to be to divide and conquer, strenght is in unity, next time I read one of you saying welfare benefit claiments are all scroungers I will find out where you live and punch you in the gob.

 

Malc , I heard Tracker say it earlier if you want to gob him .

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Guest 1footinthegrave

Some of us get lucky and have a break in life, some of us work hard and get a break in life, then it can go tits up, some of us are just cannon fodder that the rest need to enjoy their lifestyles, and yes, a very few fall by the wayside, and need a leg up.

 

Mind you all those in favour of the "bedroom tax" will no doubt have a warm glow when further migrants with invariably loads of kids take up all the council houses, and the raft of benefits they can claim, without ever paying a penny in to the system, unlike my brother who paid in all his bloody hard working life, for his poxy council house.

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1footinthegrave - 2013-01-30 10:12 PM

unlike my brother who paid in all his bloody hard working life, for his poxy council house.

 

Out of interest did he not have the right to buy his own poxy council house at a discounted price?

 

The right to buy principle was never wrong - what was wrong was not using the money raised to build replacement council houses to help yet more people take better control of their own future?

 

 

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1footinthegrave - 2013-01-30 10:12 PM

 

Some of us get lucky and have a break in life, some of us work hard and get a break in life, then it can go tits up, some of us are just cannon fodder that the rest need to enjoy their lifestyles, and yes, a very few fall by the wayside, and need a leg up.

 

 

You make your own luck and find your own breaks. No one has to be cannon fodder it is their own making in the main, myself, I don't need them! When you give some of them 'a leg up' they throw it back in your face or throw it away.

 

Bas

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1footinthegrave - 2013-01-30 5:22 PM

 

Whilst I take your point about your father, are you not the same lady who wants her Mum of 87 presumably having split from her husband 22 years ago, who both then presumably had council housing, to buy her present council flat as a future investment for you, despite being on housing benefit and some benefits (pension credit and council tax benefit) as you said in a previous post, until her windfall ( that I hope you've told the DWP about ) with the 80 grand she has just come in too, and not to leave it for someone on the council list to downsize too who would be just as desperate for a home to move in to as I guess your mother was, talk about hypocrisy, unbelievable.

.

 

Get off your spiteful soap box and stop sticking your foot in your 'gob' ... or the very large chip on your shoulder! I'll explain it for you ONCE MORE as you don't seem to have taken it in ....

 

As my Dad had the money he didn't get any means-tested benefits at all so had to pay his way completely, no housing/council tax benefits for him.

 

It is MY MUM who WANTS to buy her council flat NOT ME, I couldn't give a toss about it as I know too well who'll end up refurbishing it, then looking after it all for her and really don't need the hassle. If she does choose to go ahead and buy it though, it will probably be my neice who will be living in it, at a reduced rent, to help her gain some independence rather than having to live with her Mum and Dad as she's only on a low wage and won't then need to get a council flat. Or should my Mum instead hand it back to the council so that they have to spend a load of money on it to bring it up to spec so that a young Polish lad, who's living with his Mum in her 1 bed flat, can have it given to him on a platter when he's not been in this country that long ... ? No, he can have the council flat that my niece then won't need ... Does that sound 'okay' to you?

 

As for DWP and the inheritance, I've already spoken to them and until she ACTUALLY RECEIVES IT (ie when it's been certified as being hers by the Probate office and hits her bank account) she can't declare it as it's NOT YET HERS!!!! She can't live on something she hasn't had can she! *-)

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1footinthegrave - 2013-01-30 8:05 PM

 

And someone I know will be even more impoverished as a result of this, my bloody daughter whose partner just walked out on her after ten years leaving her with two kids of 3 and 9, and yes she does work, but believe me her life is one long bloody struggle, paying almost as much to the childminder as she earns, and us in our late sixties trying to pick up the pieces, and she really doesn't deserve it, worked full time since leaving school, now at 39 it's all gone tits up. Like I said there but for the grace of God go I,

 

Sorry about your daughter's problems, but you can't blame someone buying a council house for her splitting up with her partner can you! 8-)

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1footinthegrave - 2013-01-30 6:29 PM

 

I think they should all be rounded up and shot, there simply is not other solution because there simply is NOWHERE for them to go. There are virtually NO single bedroomed council housing stock, it was NEVER built.

 

All I can say to that is b*llocks! There are loads of 1-bed council flats round here and where my sister lives in Huddersfield, check your facts are right before spouting such nonsense.

 

And one less place if Mel b's plan comes to fruition which in case you missed it is to get her mother to buy her council flat, paid up to now out of housing benefit, and other benefits, before coming in to £80000, then keep it as an investment for herself.

Yawn ... getting boring now. Just because you are in the situation you are (and I find it hard to believe that you didn't have opportunities in the past to change it but for whatever reason you chose not to) you shouldn't castigate others who have made decisions which have given them what would appear to be more 'benefit'. We all make choices and have to live by them in the end, whatever anyone else thinks about it.

 

People are going to think you're jeolous as the saying goes "me-thinks he protesteth too much .... ".

 

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Guest 1footinthegrave

I'd be more than delighted for your Mother and her new found situation, what p*ssed me of, and still does is that you seemed to see an opportunity not to just make your mum comfortable, any one would have empathy with that viewpoint, but to make money out of buying her council flat at the age of 87, come on........buy your flat at 87, no it was to enrich yourself at some not too distant future date, you actually said that yourself..........not me, don't shoot the messenger. You may very well have not fully understood the implications, and perhaps did not, or do not see it in that light, but I'm past caring really, but......

 

As for all those empty one bed flats well you may be right, as I read.....................

 

Kirklees Lib Dem Group leader Clr Kath Pinnock said she was “appalled” that there were 3,479 long-term empty homes across Kirklees

 

While 17,000 people were on the council house waiting list.

 

So get them all in use tomorrow and there will only be 13000+ on the housing list, oh, problem solved,

 

Or 12999 if your Mums flat gets handed back , and surely they can't all be immigrants that might get it, can they, and quite frankly why should you care, like all council tenants your Mum only "borrowed it for a while.

 

 

 

;-)

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antony1969 - 2013-01-30 9:30 PM

 

knight of the road - 2013-01-30 9:26 PM

 

Please please stop referring to benefit claiments as scroungers, some are but most of them are not, they are just the ones that have been caught up in the banks and money mens machinations of greed. By slagging off and calling your own kind of people you are just allowing the powers to be to divide and conquer, strenght is in unity, next time I read one of you saying welfare benefit claiments are all scroungers I will find out where you live and punch you in the gob.

 

Malc , I heard Tracker say it earlier if you want to gob him .

Antony,

I can't help but notice that you are having a little dig at Richard again, why? Richard is one of the nicest guys on here, one of the very few that I would pass the time of day with.

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Mel B - 2013-01-30 11:08 PM

All I can say to that is b*llocks! There are loads of 1-bed council flats round here and where my sister lives in Huddersfield, check your facts are right before spouting such nonsense.

 

This is not the case around here, and you might wish to read this from the chief exec of Bron Afon housing association.

 

It is a policy that has no logic. It costs more to rent a private sector one-bedroom flat than one of our three-bedroom houses so it won’t save money when people move. It will cost more to deal with the family and individual crises that it will cause than it will save. It does nothing to help our local housing pressures because the greatest pressure is on smaller properties; exactly those that the ‘bedroom tax’ forces people to try to move to.

 

There are many problems with this new law. If the council/association cannot supply a smaller property then the tennants only way of reducing the impact is to move to private rented housing causing a greater cost to the system, ok this might change in time as councils build housing stock to meet ther needs but why cause the problem now? Also if some one has a foster child they are not counted, thats pure stupidity, Then we have those who might have an offspring living with them who gets a tour of Afgan/Mali etc after 13 weeks lose the benifit. Or those couples that sleep apart, lose the benifit.

As been posted bofore, I'm guessing the first time a middle aged british born white couple get moved and replaced with an imegrent family the EDL et.el. will be gaining support.

And as I've posted this doesn't appear to apply to MP's who can rake in massive amounts of tax payers money in housing allowence with no account taken of the size of house.

I have no problem with a law that sorts out problem cases, but it shouldbe sorted out as far as possible first.

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knight of the road - 2013-01-31 12:49 AM

I can't help but notice that you are having a little dig at Richard again, why? Richard is one of the nicest guys on here, one of the very few that I would pass the time of day with.

 

Thanks Malcolm, much appreciated, but I really don't mind that much - if you dish it you have to be prepared to take it !!

I wouldn't usually comment but there are already enough whose perceptions of me are totally wrong without them being given any more false perceptions to chew on !!

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Guest 1footinthegrave
Basil - 2013-01-30 10:38 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-01-30 10:12 PM

 

Some of us get lucky and have a break in life, some of us work hard and get a break in life, then it can go tits up, some of us are just cannon fodder that the rest need to enjoy their lifestyles, and yes, a very few fall by the wayside, and need a leg up.

 

 

You make your own luck and find your own breaks. No one has to be cannon fodder it is their own making in the main, myself, I don't need them! When you give some of them 'a leg up' they throw it back in your face or throw it away.

 

Bas

 

We all need what I jokingly call the cannon fodder,they drive the Bus to get your kids to school, they drive the van to deliver your cheap goods from Amazon, and the cleaners that clean your hotel room after a weekend break, these are the millions of people paid the minimum wage, or and as a recent report said 5 million paid less than the minimum wage. In all our everyday lives these people allow society to function.

 

So lets look at it, minimum wage, annual salary circa £14000 pa, average first time buyer house around here £150,000, so stop and think about that, you want to go to the pub / restaurant / supermarket/ the list goes on and on, as above, and all of these industries rely on these folk to service your needs.

 

Going on the 2.5 mortgage multiplier, they could buy a house for £35000, so just the small matter of being £115,000 short, this was where social housing always took up the slack, not any more, there are NON, in part because of the right to buy, and of course the huge amount of immigration

 

It goes without saying that if we need these people to enable our lifestyles, the least we can do is have a bit more compassion and recognise the huge impact it would have if they all "made their own luck" as you put it, you'd find society would instantly grind to a halt.

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1footinthegrave - 2013-01-31 10:57 AM

It goes without saying that if we need these people to enable our lifestyles, the least we can do is have a bit more compassion and recognise the huge impact it would have if they all "made their own luck" as you put it, you'd find society would instantly grind to a halt.

 

Of course society wouldn't grind to a halt.

Supply and demand would immediately take over and many more new homes would very quickly be built to supply the demand of this brave new upper working class.

Of course higher wages for the lower paid mean higher costs for all of us so as long as you would be content paying more for the goods and services formerly subsidised by low wages everything would be hunky dory.

It don't bother me 'cos I got off my bum in my twenties and made my own luck, with some notable ups and downs along the way, in life's rich tapestry so I can now easily afford higher prices!

Not having to pay rent is a great advantage to the retired as well - every little helps!

Just because you tell us that your family appears not to have been able to make it's own luck you can't blame everyone else for that - or I suppose you can if it makes you feel better!

I don't see the free(ish) market economy changing much in years to come so I guess we had better get used to it and make it work for us!

 

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Basil - 2013-01-30 10:38 PM 
You make your own luck and find your own breaks. No one has to be cannon fodder it is their own making in the main, myself, I don't need them! When you give some of them 'a leg up' they throw it back in your face or throw it away.Bas

 

What a broad spectrum load of twaddle.  If that was true we would all be company directors on £squillions.  Some are unable to 'rise' from the minimum wage jobs due to their abilities/capabilities, lack of education, physical disabilities etc etc.  Your comment is almost as infuriating as the Governments 'we're all in it together' bollox.

 

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RogerC - 2013-01-31 2:05 PM
Basil - 2013-01-30 10:38 PM 
You make your own luck and find your own breaks. No one has to be cannon fodder it is their own making in the main, myself, I don't need them! When you give some of them 'a leg up' they throw it back in your face or throw it away.Bas

 

What a broad spectrum load of twaddle.  If that was true we would all be company directors on £squillions.  Some are unable to 'rise' from the minimum wage jobs due to their abilities/capabilities, lack of education, physical disabilities etc etc.  Your comment is almost as infuriating as the Governments 'we're all in it together' bollox.

Well said Roger ! ;-)
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  Some are unable to 'rise' from the minimum wage jobs due to their abilities/capabilities, lack of education, physical disabilities etc etc.  Your comment is almost as infuriating as the Governments 'we're all in it together' bollox.

 

That's true of course - and the safety net should always be there for those who are unable for whatever reason, but that does not mean a council house is for life regardless of housing needs.

That said, there are still many who could, with a little help and encouragement maybe, do a lot better for themselves over the course of their working lives.

Of course that might mean taking a risk and/or moving home or to a new area - but c'est la vie - if you want it go get it!!

 

 

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