jsbc Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Like I said and I am neither australian or live in Australia shudder at the thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Does not alter the fact you were very rude to the regulars on here who most certainly are not a bunch of half arsed caravanners and are real people. You seem very confused as there are quite a few experts who post regularly on these forums and the amount of collective knowledge and experience is outstanding. If you cannot contribute in a positive or friendly manner then I doubt many will make you welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Have just had a first look at this as i wondered what caused so many posts about a pretty straightforward question, guess you have made up your own mind now Rich. I have a better suggestion for you, throw the inverter and all its associated junk in the bin, buy a hookup lead, much more effective (lol) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8LEY Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 jsbc - 2013-02-09 6:17 AM Like I said and I am neither australian or live in Australia shudder at the thought Didn't say you were just responded to this: jsbc - 2013-02-07 7:57 AM recently read an aussy blog with regards to same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airstream Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 The att. link clearly shows the rccb protection to the inverter/charger fitted to my motorhome http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/WD%20-%2018%20Electrical%20system%20for%20vehicles%20example.pdf Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Unfortunately there is no RCD protection to your inverter/charger unless from the EHU if fitted. It does appear that there is RCD protection to the 240ac circuits that can be fed either from the EHU or the inverter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Dave Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 It does appear looking at the other schematics from the phoenix inverter range that they strap the neutral to earth so rcds would function as designed. Ref http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/2%20PHOENIX%20INVERTER%20AND%20BMV602.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-02-09 9:32 AM Have just had a first look at this as i wondered what caused so many posts about a pretty straightforward question, guess you have made up your own mind now Rich. I have a better suggestion for you, throw the inverter and all its associated junk in the bin, buy a hookup lead, much more effective (lol) . Thanks Henry - now why didn't I think of that? I know I can always depend on dear old Henry for clear and incisive advice! Now does anyone know where I can buy a twenty mile long extension lead so I can use ehu on the beach or a riverside or mountainside please? How hard can it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Stop exaggerating Tracker, you know fine well you only need one 2 miles long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 Brambles - 2013-02-09 5:23 PM Stop exaggerating Tracker, you know fine well you only need one 2 miles long. If only there was a way to convert solar power to 12 volts DC and then onwards to 230 volts AC to run a microwave then I wouldn't need any extension leads!! How hard can it be!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Dr Dave - 2013-02-09 5:09 PM It does appear looking at the other schematics from the phoenix inverter range that they strap the neutral to earth so rcds would function as designed. Ref http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/2%20PHOENIX%20INVERTER%20AND%20BMV602.pdf And that would be the input side of the RCD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Thats is what sci fi futuristic movies are made off. Dream on, will never be a reality. How about an array of mirrors arranged parabolic shape to reflect the sun into a box to become your 'oven' . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Tracker - 2013-02-09 5:14 PM rupert123 - 2013-02-09 9:32 AM Have just had a first look at this as i wondered what caused so many posts about a pretty straightforward question, guess you have made up your own mind now Rich. I have a better suggestion for you, throw the inverter and all its associated junk in the bin, buy a hookup lead, much more effective (lol) . Thanks Henry - now why didn't I think of that? I know I can always depend on dear old Henry for clear and incisive advice! Now does anyone know where I can buy a twenty mile long extension lead so I can use ehu on the beach or a riverside or mountainside please? How hard can it be? Trust Henry to come up with a stupid answer, the microwave probably wouldn't work due to the volt drop over a 20 mile and lead and carrying a lead that length would probably overload the rear axle. :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Tracker - 2013-02-09 5:28 PM..............If only there was a way to convert solar power to 12 volts DC and then onwards to 230 volts AC to run a microwave then I wouldn't need any extension leads!! How hard can it be!! If you was to cook proper you wouldn't have a microwave or a problem! Good night ladies and gents! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Brambles - 2013-02-09 5:33 PM.......................How about an array of mirrors arranged parabolic shape to reflect the sun into a box to become your 'oven' . Now, if you could make that work with rain, Jon, I reckon you could really be onto something! Don't tell anyone though! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Dr Dave - 2013-02-09 5:09 PM It does appear looking at the other schematics from the phoenix inverter range that they strap the neutral to earth so rcds would function as designed. Ref http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/2%20PHOENIX%20INVERTER%20AND%20BMV602.pdf Couldn't get that link to work, but hopefully this may. http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual%20-%20Phoenix%20Inverter%20Compact%201200%201600%20-%20rev%2005%20-%20EN%20NL%20FR%20DE%20ES.pdf There are others, but this is the 12/1600 manual, which I think is what Rich may have been after. They are quite clear, and state that in all installations the case must be grounded to earth, vehicle chassis, or the ground-plate of a boat. Seems pretty unequivocal to me. They also say it is designed for use with an RCBO, so presumably, equally, an RCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 In rain the mirrors turn through 90 degrees to face up andthen act like paddles to collect the rain water and become like a water wheel, connected to a generator shaft...hey presto..hydro electric power. Oh hold on, there is a problem, safety, no one knows if the generator should be earthed or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airstream Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Hi All, Just to see I have been out to my van - no EHU turned on the inverter pressed the test button on the rccb unit and yes it tripped So experts out there or not? mine seems to work so I am ok with what I have on my van Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Well Ray with that test you have now become an "expert" and it appears to work as it should do. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Unfortunatly the test button on an RCD only creates an inbalance across the internal solenoid coil so it operates and trips, it does not test for the rest of the system actually being earthed so a fault to (edit ) case of an appliance from a floating 230 volts would go undetected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Dave Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Sorry about the link but try this. http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/2%20PHOENIX%20INVERTER%20AND%20BMV602.pdf The main diagram page is here. http://www.victronenergy.com/support-and-downloads/wiring-diagrams/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-02-09 7:09 PM Tracker - 2013-02-09 5:28 PM..............If only there was a way to convert solar power to 12 volts DC and then onwards to 230 volts AC to run a microwave then I wouldn't need any extension leads!! How hard can it be!! If you was to cook proper you wouldn't have a microwave or a problem! Good night ladies and gents! :-D Local French restaurant that we regularly visit is owned by a Frenchman, he is the chief and states on the menu that their isn't a microwave on the premises & cooks everything himself even the profiterole rolls, yep real food & very cheap. (why else would we go there). (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-02-09 7:31 PM http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual%20-%20Phoenix%20Inverter%20Compact%201200%201600%20-%20rev%2005%20-%20EN%20NL%20FR%20DE%20ES.pdf There are others, but this is the 12/1600 manual, which I think is what Rich may have been after. They are quite clear, and state that in all installations the case must be grounded to earth, vehicle chassis, or the ground-plate of a boat. Seems pretty unequivocal to me. They also say it is designed for use with an RCBO, so presumably, equally, an RCD. Not unequivocal at all Brian as I read it? That manual is for a Victron product which appears to come with an external terminal that is intended to be grounded to earth via the chassis whereas my inverter does not? There is some confusion in my mind whether the term chassis applies to the vehicle chassis or the inverter casing, but I interpret grounding in the Victron unit to mean the use of a physical connection to earth possibly via an external ground stake - in which case, as I understand it, an RCD would possibly then work? Or maybe I have misunderstood the following extract? Installation Read the installation instructions in the installation manual before installing the equipment. This is a Safety Class I product (supplied with a protective grounding terminal). The chassis must be grounded. A grounding point is located on the outside of the product. Whenever it is likely that the grounding protection has been damaged, the product must be turned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Tracker, on the Victron as it is supplied you connect the earth terminal to the chassis. I understand it comes with neutral bonding to the case. An RCB would work as such. Thi neutral /earth can be disconnected for a floating system if required. Yours comes with the case bonded to the outpur socket earth pin ( according to you) and it would be sensible to connect this to the chassis. You do not have neutral bonding and it is not clear if it would be safe to do so on your unit to allow the use of an RCB. You would have to ask the supplier or manufacture if it does not say so in the instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Tracker - 2013-02-09 10:20 PM.........Not unequivocal at all Brian as I read it? That manual is for a Victron product which appears to come with an external terminal that is intended to be grounded to earth via the chassis whereas my inverter does not? .............. Installation Read the installation instructions in the installation manual before installing the equipment. This is a Safety Class I product (supplied with a protective grounding terminal). The chassis must be grounded. A grounding point is located on the outside of the product. Whenever it is likely that the grounding protection has been damaged, the product must be turned off. My fault Rich, someone introduced Victron, so I'm afraid I just assumed it was probably the same unit sold under a different brand name (seeing as they are all probably made in China - and no, I didn't check that either! :-)), because otherwise it is difficult to see its relevance. If you read a bit further in the Victron manual you should find this, which is what I paraphrased. "The neutral wire of the AC output of this inverter is connected to the chassis. This is to ensure proper functioning of a GFCI (or RCCB) to be installed in the AC output of the Inverter. The chassis of the product must be connected to ground, to the frame (of a vehicle) or the ground plate or hull (of a boat)." In view of their clarity on this, and the apparent failure of Midsummer Energy/Fountainhead to understand your question, might it be worth considering the Victron as an alternative? Not saying this out of cussedness, just that I guess none of us (definitely not me! :-)) knows exactly how these various units are configured internally, but the manufacturers really should. Because something is called an inverter, it doesn't follow it will be the same in all respects as something else called an inverter (too much electronics inside). Where one manufacturer demonstrates understanding of the need to earth, and another appears not to have that understanding, I would have more confidence in the former. If the Midsummer is sharply cheaper, it may be that you are finding out why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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