Chris Huhne, what does it say about UK politics.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

So despite him saying a year ago he was completely innocent of the charges, he now pleads guilty.

 

Given also the background of home switching, expenses fiddles, administration errors,oversights, duck moats and all the rest, what does it tell us about many of our politicians today . :-(

[CliveH]

It certainly should make us question the honesty of some people in power. Huhne was known to be an obnoxious individual - very arrogant and full of himself.

 

Smacks of Jonathan Aitkin - who stood up and said that he would be saved by the "simple sword of truth" - but when the truth did come out in court - it was him that was lying and he got skewered by that sword of truth.

 

I do not think we will have the politicians capable of doing the job properly and honestly until we have politicians that come from Business rather than a Private School elite who never have a proper job and who morph into "politicians" via various lobbying agencies.

 

There grasp of reality is woeful - as exemplified by the cringworthy mistakes this coalition is making.

 

 

 

 

[John 47]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-04 11:15 PM

 

So despite him saying a year ago he was completely innocent of the charges, he now pleads guilty.

 

Given also the background of home switching, expenses fiddles, administration errors,oversights, duck moats and all the rest, what does it tell us about many of our politicians today . :-(

 

It probably tells us that there are the same proportion of crooks, cheats and decent people as in any other sector of society. I'm all for going after the guilty ones - and, like others on here, I have never liked the slimy Huhne but if we assume all politicians are corrupt that will turn into a self-fulfilling prophesy because decent people will not want to stand. But there is hope for the future because there are decent politicians in all parties. For example, I greatly respect Lord Carlyle (ex- LIb-Dem MP now in the Lords) or the likes of Matthew Parris who used to be the Tory MP for the constituency I lived in at the time or Dennis Skinner (whose views may not be to everybody's taste but who is widely respected as an honesst man by even right wing Tories). It does seem sometimes that these people are a dying breed - especially when you look at the identikit career politicians that lead all three major Parties at present - but we need to encourage more like them.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Quite a lot I imagine on top of all the fiddling etc.....they say you get the goverment you deserve....with a bunch of Tory rich boys with no commercial experience running the economy its an absoloute bizarre situation...

 

left hand down a bit...LEFT HAND DOWN A BIT!!!!! CRASH!!!!!!

 

All this because he is so arrogent and superior, he could not face 3 points..the most expensive 3 points ever I think, forces a bi election etc...etc.. It will just keep on rolling along!lol

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Since posting this thread, I have been reading about the so called expenses scandal, I did not take a huge interest in it at the time.

 

But go on to Wikipedia and read about it and the depth and amount of those involved was truly astonishing, and by nowhere near a small minority.

 

Anyway let's hope Huhne enjoys his spell in clink, not because of what he did as such, but the fact that someone in high office really should know better......... really unbelievable hypocrisy.

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 11:04 AM

 

....the depth and amount of those involved was truly astonishing, and by nowhere near a small minority.

 

..... but the fact that someone in high office really should know better......... really unbelievable hypocrisy.

 

Exactly....and I dare say that it's the very fact that so many were "at it",that made it all the more acceptable to them..

"..Nah! don't worry,it won't 'urt....everyone's doin' it.." *-)

 

Quite literally, "Peer pressure" ;-)

[RogerC]

It's not just Westminster members that are taking us for mugs and a ride.......Local authorities of all 'political leanings' are at it.......

Council blasted for spending 'scandalous' £330,000 on redundancies for 25 workers... and then re-hires them.......

One worker who received a payout spent just 27 days away from Stoke City Council before returning

Council planning to axe up to 1,600 jobs has splashed out £111m on new luxury offices

A council in one of the country’s poorest boroughs has splashed out £111 million on an office block that resembles a West End nightclub as it prepares to axe hundreds of jobs.

Labour-controlled Newham Council - in London’s gritty East End - lavished almost £10,000 on just five designer lights in its plush new offices.

The local authority – which gets £100 million more than the average London council to fight deprivation – squandered the entire amount on an office block, called Building 1000.

A council boss was given a £365,000 payment when he quit a job after a year.

Adam Wilkinson, now chief executive of Derby City Council, received the huge pay out from Kent County Council where he had worked as director of environment and regeneration.

He terminated his £70,000-a-year job after just 12 months and was given the sum - which amounted to nearly £1,000 for every day he worked at the authority.

Council that made 1,400 redundant blew £220,000 broadcasting all of their meetings online - but only picked up 57 viewers

• Hampshire County Council spent £223,000 on audio, video and web-streaming equipment and paying an outside company to operate it
• Tory-led council has axed 1,400 jobs since January 2011 in a bid to save £100million over two years

 

[CliveH]

Oh PLEASE don't get me started on the Public Sector rip off merchants again!! :-S :-S

 

And yes - I know some of them do a damn fine job!

 

But a good percentage take the p!ss - as well as huge amounts of taxpayer money!

 

>:-(

[malc d]

I just don't know what the world is coming to..

 

Before you know it they'll be finding corruption in professional football.

 

 

 

:-(

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

malc d - 2013-02-05 12:04 PM

 

I just don't know what the world is coming to..

 

Before you know it they'll be finding corruption in professional football.

 

 

 

:-(

 

I know, it's just not Cricket is it >:-) >:-)

 

And Roger C is right on the button,

 

and don't get me started on Gwynedd council >:-(

[Dave225]

Of course at the end of the day, people vote for them. Yes, I know some get 'p;laced' in so called safe seats where a turnip would get elected which in turn demonstrates the dumb mentality of many voters.

 

I do not know if there is any law which states that there has to be a minimum percentage of all registered voters to call an election valid, but getting to be an MP from less than 30% of voters seems hardly a mandate. If there was it would make 'none of the above' a reasonable request to appear on the ballot paper. If they ever go to proportional representation then we will always have coalitions with the wonky and truly wacky, all placemen from their Parties, calling the shots.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Perhaps there should be no such thing as a Political party, just Independents, a house of commons full of people with experience of life, and conviction without the constraints of a party.

The upcoming vote on Gay marriage being a case in point. It would be interesting to see the outcome of the vote if it really was a free vote' free of party interference, and a vote at a ballot box would in my view be far more democratic.

[malc d]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 12:38 PM

 

Perhaps there should be no such thing as a Political party, just Independents, a house of commons full of people with experience of life, and conviction without the constraints of a party.

 

.

 

Not very practical methinks.

 

How would they plan policies for the future -defence - education etc ?

 

Just imagine having the country run by all the ' independent' members of this forum !!!

 

Absolute chaos.

 

(lol)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

malc d - 2013-02-05 1:18 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 12:38 PM

 

Perhaps there should be no such thing as a Political party, just Independents, a house of commons full of people with experience of life, and conviction without the constraints of a party.

 

.

 

Not very practical methinks.

 

How would they plan policies for the future -defence - education etc ?

 

Just imagine having the country run by all the ' independent' members of this forum !!!

 

Absolute chaos.

 

(lol)

 

Yes I do take your point in part, but surely majority voting would work in parliament , after all it happens like that in many organizations, our local council has many independents for example. I think part of the problem is towing the "party line" and surely members should be free to vote in accordance to their electorates views, and their own convictions on every issue. Perhaps we would not have gone to war in Iraq had that been the case

 

Something that you can bet will not happen in todays vote for example, it will be the whips calling the shots

:-S

[malc d]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 1:38 PM

 

malc d - 2013-02-05 1:18 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 12:38 PM

 

Perhaps there should be no such thing as a Political party, just Independents, a house of commons full of people with experience of life, and conviction without the constraints of a party.

 

.

 

Not very practical methinks.

 

How would they plan policies for the future -defence - education etc ?

 

Just imagine having the country run by all the ' independent' members of this forum !!!

 

Absolute chaos.

 

(lol)

 

Yes I do take your point in part, but surely majority voting would work in parliament ,

 

 

 

 

 

Majority voting for what ?

 

You would have 600 independents - with 600 manifestos - 600 policies.

 

How do you choose a policy that everyone agrees to vote on ?

 

 

Who would form the government of the day ?

 

I suspect that everyone would be the opposition.

 

 

 

:-D

 

...and most local councils are run by parties, with a minor input from independents.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Ah good point I did not think of that, back to the drawing board I guess.for me :D

[spospe]

All these scandals show that we live in a democracy with a free press.

 

The truth will always come out and it has.

 

A good thing all round.

 

[nowtelse2do]

Thank goodness for the NOW 8-)

 

Dave

[Guest JudgeMental]

If you cant see the difference between political corruption by those running the country and making day to day decisions that effect us all, and sport.....A BIG difference IMO

[RogerC]

Maybe it's time to stop 'parachuting' the favoured sons and daughters of the party into 'safe seats'.  IMO it is a practice that in no way represents the people of the constituency and only serves to make sure that those 'in power' (how I hate that phrase but that's what they say they are) get the toadying individuals they want who will suck up to the hierarchy.  It perpetuates the image of national politics being populated by members of 'The approved ones club'.  I feel it is highly undemocratic and does a great disservice to the populace.

 

Maybe if it was stopped there would be a more democratic form of government as those elected would hopefully know and understand the local populace and their needs better.  It would still allow for the government of the day to function properly because on matters of 'national' importance the 'whips' would still be 'in action'.

 

[Dave225]

Up here we have Proportional Representation as the parliamentary model, and I do not see that that is any better than the current system of first past the post. Up here we elect a constituency MSP and after all these have been allocated the votes of 2nd, 3rd and 4th etc candidates are counted together. These are then apportioned according to number for ‘list MSPs’. These MSP's have the same standing but no constituency, so a dead easy job. They merely vote as Party Fodder. The system I admit does more accurately reflect the number of votes each party gets but the public has no say on who is chosen as a ‘list MSP’ It means a candidate can lose a constituency but still be elected as a List MSP. The LibDems used it to great advantage until even that system failed them. It also meant we had Green MSPs and for a while the real loopies of the Scottish Socialist Party, until again they bit the dust.

 

So, I do not know the answer. Well, actually I do. You keep what we have now but make the penalties for criminal acts so severe that none of them dares try it. Any MP/Member of th Lords being caught immediately loses the seat, is banned from public office for life, loses any honours and if caught fiddling the books repays £5 for every £1 taken. No Leaving Allowances to be paid. This is on top of any jail sentence that may be imposed.

 

[CliveH]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 12:38 PM

 

Perhaps there should be no such thing as a Political party, just Independents, a house of commons full of people with experience of life, and conviction without the constraints of a party.

The upcoming vote on Gay marriage being a case in point. It would be interesting to see the outcome of the vote if it really was a free vote' free of party interference, and a vote at a ballot box would in my view be far more democratic.

 

Now on this point we would seem to agree 100%. My personal view is that all votes should be "Free Votes" - the 'whip' system employed in our lower HoP is an offence to democracy.

 

I have long argued for more Independent candidates.

 

 

 

[John 47]

CliveH - 2013-02-06 8:19 AM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-05 12:38 PM

 

Perhaps there should be no such thing as a Political party, just Independents, a house of commons full of people with experience of life, and conviction without the constraints of a party.

The upcoming vote on Gay marriage being a case in point. It would be interesting to see the outcome of the vote if it really was a free vote' free of party interference, and a vote at a ballot box would in my view be far more democratic.

 

Now on this point we would seem to agree 100%. My personal view is that all votes should be "Free Votes" - the 'whip' system employed in our lower HoP is an offence to democracy.

 

I have long argued for more Independent candidates.

 

 

 

I am suspicious of Independent candidates whenever they appear on the ballot paper. What do they stand for? Are they independent fascists or independent communists? At least when people sign up to a political party then you have some idea of what they stand for and you are more able to decide whether that is what you want.

[CliveH]

well you have to do your homework on them obviously

 

But in Denmark - where they had the same old same old two party pendulum politics - the electorate started to vote in candidates that stood for what THEY believed in - not what a party elite told them to stand for.

 

The result in Denmark has been very positive - with a block of individualistic independents able to support whatever programme or concept makes sense to them.

 

I believe that if the likes of George Galloway can get the number of votes he did as an independent then someone with brains and common sense should be able to do as well as that idiot.

 

Martin Bell did a great job. Imagine if we had a number of people of his capabilities in the HoC's

 

Mind you more like Galloway and i would emigrate. (lol) (lol)

 

But the choice is surely down to the electorate.

 

 

[John 47]

CliveH - 2013-02-06 10:12 AM

 

well you have to do your homework on them obviously

 

But in Denmark - where they had the same old same old two party pendulum politics - the electorate started to vote in candidates that stood for what THEY believed in - not what a party elite told them to stand for.

 

The result in Denmark has been very positive - with a block of individualistic independents able to support whatever programme or concept makes sense to them.

 

I believe that if the likes of George Galloway can get the number of votes he did as an independent then someone with brains and common sense should be able to do as well as that idiot.

 

Martin Bell did a great job. Imagine if we had a number of people of his capabilities in the HoC's

 

Mind you more like Galloway and i would emigrate. (lol) (lol)

 

But the choice is surely down to the electorate.

 

 

 

Your last point is, of course, undeniable - so it is interesting that the electorate generally rejects independents (except in unusual circumstances such as the Hamilton case or the Kiddiminster hospital case). Maybe they share my suspicion of the label "Independent".

 

George Galloway, incidentally, is not an independent, he represents the Respect Party. Whatever your views on that organisation, at least you know from day one what Galloway will say and do. Thus you can make an informed decision about whether or not to vote for him.

 

I'm not saying it wouln't be a good idea to have more independents but I would feel uneasy if they were in a majority. After all, what does an "independent" group stand for? Would they act together or would they be independent of each other? How could we tell whether somebody on the extreme left, say, was pretending to be independent just to stand a better chance of getting elected in a right-wing constituency? I know the current lot are less than inspiring but I'm not sure that things would be improved if we replaced them with a bunch of individuals who would probably each be just as self-serving.

 

Having said that, I've no idea what the answer is (other than a return to the politics of principle that we had, say, after the War) !