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can windfarms cause climate change


teflon2

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A mathematician named Edward Lorenz postulated that could the flap of a butterfly's wings in Brazil set off a tornado in Texas. In the late 60s I was involved in the design and construction of automatic assembly machinery which incorporated a fluid logic system in which a variation in the movement of a low energy airflow would cause a higher energy airflow to carry out a task. Is it possible that the effect of wind turbines on low energy winds could affect the much higher energy winds such as the Sirocco, Mistral, Nigeq, Khamsin or any of the other approx. 50 seasonal winds possibly causing climate change. (I must admit that the action was carried out in a finely engineered box about half the size of a mathbox). John 8-) 8-) 8-)
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Good point John, think I saw that on tv a while back. What I think might be more of a problem some time in the future is, the earth must be getting lighter because of all the minerals being used up. Coal, oil, water and trees (rain forests if not being replanted) There's a hell of a lot coming out, so must have an impact on things.

 

Dave

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Not sure about causing climate change - tho' i would say that the "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" rule no doubt has an effect.

 

What they do cause is the death of birds and bats.

 

They also cause already rich land-owners to become even richer thanks to government subsidies paid to them as the only way to make such energy production viable for the producer. These subsidies are funded by us, the tax payer, who pay to make the rich richer by green taxes on our utility bills.

 

And as for who is involved - recently sacked Energy Minister Charles Hendry has not wasted any time cashing in on his expertise; he has just been announced as the chairman of the wind energy giants Forewind. The consortium comprising of four international companies -Scottish and Southern, RWE, Statoil and Statkraf – was awarded the contract in 2010 to build the huge “Dogger Bank” windfarm 125 kilometres off the Yorkshire coast.

 

Though Hendry has waited for the appropriate cooling off period of three months since leaving government, a look through his declared meetings while a minister leaves an unfortunate taste in the mouth: between June 2010 and October 2011 Hendry hobnobbed six times with the representatives of the companies that make up Forewind, and now he is their boss.

 

It seems the revolving doors spin far more than the windmills…...

 

 

http://www.forewind.co.uk/news/64/34/Charles-Hendry-appointed-as-chairman.html

 

8-)

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nowtelse2do - 2013-02-08 8:44 PM

 

Good point John, think I saw that on tv a while back. What I think might be more of a problem some time in the future is, the earth must be getting lighter because of all the minerals being used up. Coal, oil, water and trees (rain forests if not being replanted) There's a hell of a lot coming out, so must have an impact on things.

 

Dave

 

Unless the aliens are spiriting it all away I think you'll find that it's all still here in weight terms.... just in a different format. So the earth weighs more-or-less the same as it always has (except for a few lunar landers & other spacecraft?) & the extra weight of a few meteorites.

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Yes indeed it is:-

 

How "convenient" for the wind farm industry and Forewind in particular that they now have an ex Minister as CEO and their last CEO has resigned - to become...........................????????

 

"Forewind’s previous chairman, the Rt Hon. John Gummer, Lord Deben, resigned in September 2012 following his appointment as the new chairman of the government’s climate change advisory body, Committee on Climate Change (CCC)."

 

......................... - yes that IS correct - the last CEO pf Forewind resigned to become Chairman of the Governments Climate Change Advisory body the CCC.

 

And surprise surprise - guess what the CCC is all in favour off?

 

>:-( >:-( >:-(

 

 

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Just how does one get on to these gravy trains??

 

I am taking treatment to get my tongue lenthened and I could even be persuaded to use it on someone's backside if the reward was large enough Well, maybe not. Can I not get a minion to do that bit for me?, or the wife as that is evidently LibDem policy??? I could even start buying and reading the Guardian and I am sure the Beeb is absolutely accurate in everything it broadcasts.

 

I know I could do an excellent job on 200 grand per year plus expenses for 3 days per week.

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laimeduck - 2013-02-08 10:55 PM

 

nowtelse2do - 2013-02-08 8:44 PM

 

Good point John, think I saw that on tv a while back. What I think might be more of a problem some time in the future is, the earth must be getting lighter because of all the minerals being used up. Coal, oil, water and trees (rain forests if not being replanted) There's a hell of a lot coming out, so must have an impact on things.

 

Dave

 

Unless the aliens are spiriting it all away I think you'll find that it's all still here in weight terms.... just in a different format. So the earth weighs more-or-less the same as it always has (except for a few lunar landers & other spacecraft?) & the extra weight of a few meteorites.

 

Not too sure about that Jeremy. A bag of cinders to a same size bag of coal is a lot lighter and the weight of a gallon of petrol will have reduced when at the end of an exhaust pipe.

 

Dave

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I am self educated, so someone clever will need to confirm this, but, you cannot actually totally destroy anything. You can change it's state but it will always exist in some form.

If your drive along the Chiswick Flyover at the start of the M4 you will see an advertising device for Riccoh Printers, It is supposed to be illuminated at night, and to this end it has an impressive array of photovoltaic panels, and 5 stupidly small wind generators which seldom turn. There is an indicator which should show the state of charge, but it usually indicates nothing. Most of the time the sign is unlit .

AGD

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Archiesgrandad - 2013-02-10 12:30 AM

 

I am self educated, so someone clever will need to confirm this, but, you cannot actually totally destroy anything. You can change it's state but it will always exist in some form.

If your drive along the Chiswick Flyover at the start of the M4 you will see an advertising device for Riccoh Printers, It is supposed to be illuminated at night, and to this end it has an impressive array of photovoltaic panels, and 5 stupidly small wind generators which seldom turn. There is an indicator which should show the state of charge, but it usually indicates nothing. Most of the time the sign is unlit .

AGD

 

An excellent metaphor and prediction for the power cuts and "brown-outs" we will all likely experience if the likes of Forewind and their political rigging continues.

 

Wind turbines only work if you have either a Nuclear powered giant fan in front of them providing the constant breeze they require - or, for when the natural wind is too little or too strong, you have gas fired power stations constantly running on idle ready to "step in".

 

The Government seems to be going for the latter but is VERY VERY cagey about how much it will cost in total to have all those gas powered power stations running on idle because the figs most experts come up with is thjat this cost is virtually the same as having them run at full power!

 

Add to this the cost of the Wind Farm follies themselves AND the cost of the Feed In Tariff subsidies given to all those nice already rich landowners by way of extra taxes applied to us all and you begin to see just how expensive this rush to "renewable" energy is going to be for us all.

 

The only way it gets past the numpties in charge is if those same numpties in charge have their greedy noses in the same renewable energy trough.

 

Which is EXACTLY what they have managed to achieve via their influence on our current Coalition Government.

 

 

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nowtelse2do - 2013-02-09 6:36 PM

 

laimeduck - 2013-02-08 10:55 PM

 

nowtelse2do - 2013-02-08 8:44 PM

 

Good point John, think I saw that on tv a while back. What I think might be more of a problem some time in the future is, the earth must be getting lighter because of all the minerals being used up. Coal, oil, water and trees (rain forests if not being replanted) There's a hell of a lot coming out, so must have an impact on things.

 

Dave

 

Unless the aliens are spiriting it all away I think you'll find that it's all still here in weight terms.... just in a different format. So the earth weighs more-or-less the same as it always has (except for a few lunar landers & other spacecraft?) & the extra weight of a few meteorites.

 

Not too sure about that Jeremy. A bag of cinders to a same size bag of coal is a lot lighter and the weight of a gallon of petrol will have reduced when at the end of an exhaust pipe.

 

Dave

 

Dave :D

If you think about it, why do archaeologists always have to dig up their roman villas/or old medieval roads etc? Because they are buried under feet of earth. Everything gets covered over in time, so the earth is getting bigger.

 

If the earth is getting bigger, & soil is replacing the air, then the earth is getting heavier. QED 8-)

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laimeduck - 2013-02-10 9:14 AM

 

Dave :D

If you think about it, why do archaeologists always have to dig up their roman villas/or old medieval roads etc? Because they are buried under feet of earth. Everything gets covered over in time, so the earth is getting bigger.

 

If the earth is getting bigger, & soil is replacing the air, then the earth is getting heavier. QED 8-)

 

But the hollow underneath gets bigger also. ;-) Soil is eroded in one place and deposited in another :-D

 

Dave

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nowtelse2do - 2013-02-10 1:14 PM

 

laimeduck - 2013-02-10 9:14 AM

 

Dave :D

If you think about it, why do archaeologists always have to dig up their roman villas/or old medieval roads etc? Because they are buried under feet of earth. Everything gets covered over in time, so the earth is getting bigger.

 

If the earth is getting bigger, & soil is replacing the air, then the earth is getting heavier. QED 8-)

 

But the hollow underneath gets bigger also. ;-) Soil is eroded in one place and deposited in another :-D

 

Dave

 

 

That's what worries me.

 

All that coal, oil, gas, tin, copper, gold etc - taken out.

 

One day we're all gonna fall into a great big hole.

 

:-D

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malc d - 2013-02-10 1:57 PM

 

nowtelse2do - 2013-02-10 1:14 PM

 

laimeduck - 2013-02-10 9:14 AM

 

Dave :D

If you think about it, why do archaeologists always have to dig up their roman villas/or old medieval roads etc? Because they are buried under feet of earth. Everything gets covered over in time, so the earth is getting bigger.

 

If the earth is getting bigger, & soil is replacing the air, then the earth is getting heavier. QED 8-)

 

But the hollow underneath gets bigger also. ;-) Soil is eroded in one place and deposited in another :-D

 

Dave

 

 

That's what worries me.

 

All that coal, oil, gas, tin, copper, gold etc - taken out.

 

One day we're all gonna fall into a great big hole.

 

:-D

 

Yeh......about 6' deep :-D

 

Dave

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CliveH - 2013-02-10 2:13 PM

 

But isn't this why "Time team" has to dig up everything?

 

gravity pulls things down! :-D

 

Stand still long enough and your ankles disappear!

 

(lol) (lol) (lol) (lol)

 

Phew...That was a fright Clive, looked down and realised I had my wellies on. (lol)

 

Dave

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Mr T says Removing elements from the earth are much the same as the carbon emisions, all the so-called loose elements change into a different format and therefore nothing is lost or gained meaning in reality there never was nor never is any increase in one or other element. It is simply not possible to have millions of spare elements just drifting about with nowhere to go.

 

MT

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What I find spooky is that the chemical elements we are made of have been around since the very beginning. We just keep using them!

 

And yes - whilst the law of Conservation of Energy works in an enclosed system and to be fair – this is what most of us see, looking at the bigger picture the Earth is constantly bombarded with about 100 tons of space debris a day and so whilst a lot of it burns up some gets through and some imparts yet more energy into “the system” – so it is not really a closed system at all.

 

And over huge periods of time and VERY simplistically explained here because I am certainly no expert here the earth does expand and thais can be seen by the movement of the Techtonic plates. It was obvious for many years that the western side of Africa fits quite neatly into the eastern side of South America. The idea of techtonic plates constantly moving and expanding is accepted now and indeed massive shifts in techtonic plate boundaries cause the eathquakes and tsunami’s we have seen recently.

 

But techtonic plate theory doesn't seem to explain it all. Earth is expanding at the cracks in the crust faster than it is subducting. This means the earth is getting larger. Look at an Atlas and you can see how everything is expanding. Everything seemed to be joined up at one time and then slowly splits apart.

 

There is a theory to account for this but a strange one until much thought is given. This is absorbed energy theory. According to this, earth, like every body of matter, is constantly absorbing fast moving energy. A lot of it but be no means all come from the sun.

 

This is actually the same as gravity and gravity is a "push" according to this theory but obeys all the laws of Newton--but that's another story. As earth absorbs this energy, it breaks it and changes it into other radiation that we know such as x-rays, gamma rays, alpha, beta, heat, etc etc.

 

But a portion of this energy is stopped so suddenly that it changes to matter. This means earth, all the planets, all the galaxy etc. and everything else are expanding as is the entire Universe. It will expand, apparently, until the energy runs out. Then it will contract.

 

We will then all disappear up our nearest black hole.

 

And on that happy note I shall go and have a cuppa.

 

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