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I've lit the blue touch paper, ha ha


Guest 1footinthegrave

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The judge stated in the case, that the suspended sentence was in part due to the fact they had repaid the money falsely claimed for child benefit. However, I can't believe that for a second offence, a custodial sentence wasn't passed.

I too don't care if they were black, white, yellow or 50 shades of grey, fraud is fraud is fraud and the punishment should fit the crime.

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Guest pelmetman
pepe63 - 2013-02-12 3:22 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-02-12 2:39 PM

 

In the interest of balance.............what proportin would you say were native British (?)

 

Well you could try doing a search yourself...?

..having just carried out a quick search.. "benefit cheats escape jail"..(via Bing)

 

For me,on the first page,of the relevent hits,it brought up the following in order:

 

Emily Morris 34 & Kevin Wraith 30 (photo-white)

John Liversey 57 (photo-white)

Hazel maddock 61 (photo-white)

Theresa Aldous "widowed Gran" 62 ( photo-white)

 

So.. on the first page(which is all I bothered noting)..ALL were "white" and all very were "respectable and British" looking/sounding ...with none of their names indicating that they were of an obvious eastern European extraction..

..although that is probably not what you were hoping for... ;-)

 

I was on my Kindle so not so easy to surf ;-).......... now had a google........and came up with this :D......

 

http://benefitfraud.blogspot.com.es/search/label/light%20sentence

 

Seems like most people get away with it, and if your caught........ a slap on the wrist is the most you can expect *-)

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1footinthegrave - 2013-02-12 7:05 PM

 

Having given this some thought it would be interesting to know how they funded their "success" I'm guessing £400,000 would go some way to that, as much as some people earn in a lifetime. 8-)

 

A state funded illegally gained interest free loan ( twice ) then, OK for some, eh

 

I guess just another out of touch judge.

 

It seems from the newspaper reports (not the best source of information, I admit!) that the culprits already had properties in other parts of the world. How they got them is anybody's guess but they were hardly on their uppers when they decided to defraud the system. But that's par for the course - if you are wealthy you can afford a different type of justice from those who have nothing.

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Guest 1footinthegrave

Yes I've had a look at benefit fraud website, quite illuminating, but the highest amount I could see was 80k, so 400k puts in a different league altogether, and for one of them a second offence. 8-)

 

But perhaps they were or thought they were clever folks, but it does seem all is not well in the Muslim world...................................

 

Over the past year the Muslim prison population in the UK has reached 10,600, according to the Times, and accounts for 12.6 per cent of all prisoners - a huge over representation considering that just three per cent of the UK is Muslim. So it does look as though their are no special favours being shown, unless you have clout as you say.....................

 

Oh well, just another mad day in an increasingly mad world.

 

:-|

 

A bit of telly now....... ;-) I think I'll give the morning papers a miss from now on to keep my blood pressure down. :-S

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1footinthegrave - 2013-02-12 7:27 PM

 

Over the past year the Muslim prison population in the UK has reached 10,600, according to the Times, and accounts for 12.6 per cent of all prisoners - a huge over representation considering that just three per cent of the UK is Muslim. So it does look as though their are no special favours being shown

 

So you can relax then - the Muslims aren't getting anywhere in their attempt to take over the world and tell you that you have to live under sharia law! (lol) (lol)

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Guest pelmetman
1footinthegrave - 2013-02-12 7:05 PM

 

Having given this some thought it would be interesting to know how they funded their "success" I'm guessing £400,000 would go some way to that, as much as some people earn in a lifetime. 8-)

 

A state funded illegally gained interest free loan ( twice ) then, OK for some, eh

 

I guess just another out of touch judge.

 

How much interest would 400k earn a year? :-S.....................I think I've just sussed out how to fund my early retirement >:-)

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pelmetman - 2013-02-12 7:42 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-12 7:05 PM

 

Having given this some thought it would be interesting to know how they funded their "success" I'm guessing £400,000 would go some way to that, as much as some people earn in a lifetime. 8-)

 

A state funded illegally gained interest free loan ( twice ) then, OK for some, eh

 

I guess just another out of touch judge.

 

How much interest would 400k earn a year? :-S.....................I think I've just sussed out how to fund my early retirement >:-)

 

8 grand per annum after tax. Nice but not really enough to pay for the yacht in Monte Carlo. On the other hand you could use it to buy some horses...............Damn, we have done that one already.

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Guest pelmetman
Dave225 - 2013-02-12 7:59 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-02-12 7:42 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-12 7:05 PM

 

Having given this some thought it would be interesting to know how they funded their "success" I'm guessing £400,000 would go some way to that, as much as some people earn in a lifetime. 8-)

 

A state funded illegally gained interest free loan ( twice ) then, OK for some, eh

 

I guess just another out of touch judge.

 

How much interest would 400k earn a year? :-S.....................I think I've just sussed out how to fund my early retirement >:-)

 

8 grand per annum after tax. Nice but not really enough to pay for the yacht in Monte Carlo. On the other hand you could use it to buy some horses...............Damn, we have done that one already.

 

8k is that all 8-)..........

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£400K in an Investment Bond would give 5% withdrawals tax deferred - so that is £20K pa and you do not even have to put this on your tax return because tax is paid internally.

 

OK so - to maintain the capital you would need to maintain 5% plus each year on average - but the Fixed Interest Sector has easily managed that of late.

 

And if - as EU citizens we chose an offshore Finance Centre such as Dublin, Luxembourg or one of the UK dependent state offshore options - Jersey or the IoM - you can achieve gross role up in the fund AND still take that £20K a year tax deferred.

 

So - if you know what you are doing - such a sum can give a very nice return indeed!

 

 

 

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Guest pelmetman
CliveH - 2013-02-12 8:17 PM

 

£400K in an Investment Bond would give 5% withdrawals tax deferred - so that is £20K pa and you do not even have to put this on your tax return because tax is paid internally.

 

OK so - to maintain the capital you would need to maintain 5% plus each year on average - but the Fixed Interest Sector has easily managed that of late.

 

And if - as EU citizens we chose an offshore Finance Centre such as Dublin, Luxembourg or one of the UK dependent state offshore options - Jersey or the IoM - you can achieve gross role up in the fund AND still take that £20K a year tax deferred.

 

So - if you know what you are doing - such a sum can give a very nice return indeed!

 

 

 

That's more like it Clive :-D...................now I just have to work out how to claim 400k in benefits :-S

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Yep - and if we take into account a couples individual CGT allowance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Not only could we get a huge increase in income for the fraudsters, but we could save them a lot of tax as well!

 

Just as well then that we have to check and flag up any potential Money Laundering then! :-S

 

 

 

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Guest 1footinthegrave

Here's a good idea, you get the 400k in fraudulent benefits, you use it to fund run down old houses, apply for improvement grants, then rent them back out to housing benefit claimants, ( guaranteed rent ) then sell them off for a good profit once you feel the DWP are breathing down your neck, then offer the money back when caught and get off with a slap on the wrist, and call yourself a self made made, simple really. >:-)

 

A tidy profit with non of your own cash outlay. ;-)

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Clive H,

 

You are probably correct thinking that many who live the other side of the Tamar are Martians - or at least Aliens.

 

I moved from the planet many of you reside on about 15 years ago - on account of encountering too many Morons on a daily basis.

 

I found, that with the right attitude, the Cornish are quite happy with some 'invaders' - others don't seem to fair so well though.

 

 

Kernow really is a different world......feel free to visit any time my 'ansome, it's hellish good - or did you come down backalong?

 

Proper Cornish are a rusty brown colour by the way. :-) Mind you, I'm getting there B-)

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1footinthegrave - 2013-02-12 7:27 PM

 

Yes I've had a look at benefit fraud website, quite illuminating, but the highest amount I could see was 80k, so 400k puts in a different league altogether, and for one of them a second offence. 8-)

 

But perhaps they were or thought they were clever folks, but it does seem all is not well in the Muslim world...................................

 

Over the past year the Muslim prison population in the UK has reached 10,600, according to the Times, and accounts for 12.6 per cent of all prisoners - a huge over representation considering that just three per cent of the UK is Muslim. So it does look as though their are no special favours being shown, unless you have clout as you say.....................

 

Oh well, just another mad day in an increasingly mad world.

 

:-|

 

A bit of telly now....... ;-) I think I'll give the morning papers a miss from now on to keep my blood pressure down. :-S

 

That's quite a worrying percentage , I wonder what the percentage of the prison population was Muslim say ten years ago and how quickly it has reached the 12.6 per cent .

Never mind the racist rubbish if that section of our society is over represented in prison as the figures suggest then it means we have a real problem does it not and does it mean there are more rogues and crooks in the Muslim community than others ?

 

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There does seem to be a significant discrepancy here.

 

If my quick search is correct then the percentage of Muslims in the UK is about 4.8% (2011) but when you search for the percentage of Muslims in our UK prison population you find that this figure is a whopping 12.6%

 

A significant difference.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/07/young-prisoners-muslim

 

 

This article from the Guardian indicates a further worrying trend in that 1 in 5 of Young Prisoners are Muslim – that is 20%.

 

Certainly this would indicate a trend.

 

Also worrying is that the same report cited in the Guardian found that about a third of all young prisoners had been in Local Authority Care.

 

 

 

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Clive , my brother has worked on young offenders lock ups and he says the same as you refer to that a larger percentage than you would expect locked up in these places are young Muslim lads . Surely it cant all be a case of what Ali G used to say " is it cuz I is black ? " been the reason these young lads are locked up ?
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CliveH - 2013-02-13 8:0

Also worrying is that the same report cited in the Guardian found that about a third of all young prisoners had been in Local Authority Care.

 

 

 

I doubt, Clive, whether that last figure has changed much in 30 years (although I haven't the figures to prove it) certainly when I was 'in the business' (Social work with young offenders that is) L.A. care was always a 'ticket' to gaol for a large proportion of young offenders -- despite our best efforts. Too high a proportion of those were young West Indian boys -- I wonder how that figure stands now? The muslims (mainly from Pakistan) were conspicuous by their absence from the juvenile courts in those days.

 

Colin.

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CliveH - 2013-02-13 8:09 AM

 

There does seem to be a significant discrepancy here.

 

If my quick search is correct then the percentage of Muslims in the UK is about 4.8% (2011) but when you search for the percentage of Muslims in our UK prison population you find that this figure is a whopping 12.6%

 

A significant difference.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/07/young-prisoners-muslim

 

 

This article from the Guardian indicates a further worrying trend in that 1 in 5 of Young Prisoners are Muslim – that is 20%.

 

Certainly this would indicate a trend.

 

Also worrying is that the same report cited in the Guardian found that about a third of all young prisoners had been in Local Authority Care.

 

 

 

There is undoubtedly a problem here but, to put it in perspective, much less than 0.5% of the Muslim population of the UK has been imprisoned for any crime so, as I am sure you are aware, we mustn't leap to conclusions over the figures.

 

It seems to me that if you looked at the figures for the percentage of the prison poulation from urban areas as opposed to rural areas, or poor areas as opposed to rich areas, drug users as opposed to non-drug users and so on, you would find over-representation. I would have thought that the "down-trodden" (for want of a better word) sectors of society have always provided more than their fair share of the prison population.

 

I have no answers but we need to ask the right questions if we are to arrive at any possibility of answers,

 

 

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CliveH - 2013-02-13 8:50 AM

 

Interesting - Perhaps it is the sense of isolation - not belonging - said to be felt by second generation immigrants.

 

 

 

It could well be, Clive, certainly that is often quoted as a reason (among several) by those working in the field, as well as by the spokespersons for the immigrant communities, but it is a very complex area -- an analysis of the nature and prevalence of the various offences committed might be useful/neccessary.

Colin.

 

P.S. Looks like John and I are:"Singing from the same hymnsheet" -- I totally agree.

C.

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Guest pelmetman
Symbol Owner - 2013-02-13 8:57 AM

 

CliveH - 2013-02-13 8:50 AM

 

Interesting - Perhaps it is the sense of isolation - not belonging - said to be felt by second generation immigrants.

 

 

 

It could well be, Clive, certainly that is often quoted as a reason (among several) by those working in the field, as well as by the spokespersons for the immigrant communities, but it is a very complex area -- an analysis of the nature and prevalence of the various offences committed might be useful/neccessary.

Colin.

 

P.S. Looks like John and I are:"Singing from the same hymnsheet" -- I totally agree.

C.

 

Perhaps we should build more mosques and introduce sharia law to help them feel more at home? >:-)

 

We also could just slap them on the wrist and tell them they've ruined their good name, when they cheat the benefit system out of 100's of thousands of pounds ;-)..................Oh I forgot *-)............we already do (lol) (lol)

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Guest 1footinthegrave

I'm guessing that may young Muslims perhaps feel trapped between two worlds and two cultures, but that is no excuse for criminality, even so the article from the Guardian indicates a further worrying trend in that 1 in 5 of Young Prisoners are Muslim – that is 20%. which whatever way you look at it given the overall percentage of the Muslim population does not bode at all well. This is over representative pure and simple end of. ;-)

 

The only thing that does surprise me is that these figures have been collated at all in this PC world. (!)

 

Just happy that we here in rural Gwynedd can still leave our keys in the car. ;-)

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Guest Had Enough

It’s a pity that what appeared to be becoming an intelligent discussion has been infiltrated by the usual suspect with his silly little comments about building more mosques and his suggestions, that have no truth whatsoever, such as the implication that Muslim benefit cheats are treated differently from other benefit cheats. To repeat, if you do a Google search on ‘Benefit cheats escape jail’ you’ll find mainly white Britons and the sums involved are often greater than the original one in this thread. That however doesn’t suit his agenda.

 

Another one has said that Muslims criminals outnumber others and that this is ‘pure and simple’. The only thing that’s simple about this is this assumption.

 

Crime is much more about social class than it is colour or religion. Let’s assume that there are no immigrants at all in Britain and that we’ve only a white indigenous population.

 

Let’s now assume a large private housing estate or a small country town of a thousand people, where everyone is moderately well-off, in employment and living in a stable family environment.

 

Now let’s assume an inner-city council estate with high-rise housing blocks occupied by one thousand of the lower echelons of society. This will have a larger number of the less intelligent, poorly educated, often unemployed and possibly fatherless children, growing up on the poverty borderline.

 

And before I’m jumped on I do not assume that all people living on rough council estates are thick, dishonest and workshy. Many succeed and pull themselves out of their original status, just as many of those on the middle-class estate also improve their lot in life by hard work and ambition.

 

Now take these same two examples in today's Britain. What percentage of the middle-class estate will be black, Muslim or other Asian? It will be very small.

 

Now take the rough council estate. The percentage of black, Muslim and other minorities will be much greater.

 

So my point, which I’m sure most of you have grasped, is that crime is more often a consequence of social class and upbringing. If we were to able to produce figures showing crimes committed by socio-economic group E, the lowest class, Muslims and Blacks would represent a much smaller percentage as they are a much larger group within that social class.

 

The reason that Muslims and blacks represent a higher percentage of the prison population is that they are more like to be in the lower social classes.

 

Or to put it another way. If you had a middle-class estate populated by Muslim professionals and the better-off Muslims, their contribution to the crime rate would be no different than that of their white counterparts.

 

As soon as Muslims and other minorities escape the ghetto and thrive economically, they are no different from anyone else. Black prisoners represent seven times more than their size in the general population, far more than Muslims and that’s nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the points I make about social class and upbringing.

 

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Could well be Colin

 

I vividly remember having a West Indian friend at school and being appalled at how even some of the Teachers treated and spoke to him.

 

And on one notable occaision a local shop where we all used to go after school had an old lady behind the counter who we had not seen before and she asked him to leave the shop!

 

We must have been about 10 yrs old at the time so that would have put the year as early 1960's

 

To us he was just a mate - but it was a rude awakening as to how my parents/grandparents generation viewed things.

 

Little wonder that anger builds up in people subjected to such hostility.

 

 

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