pound really under pressure now!

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

JudgeMental - 2013-02-26 6:39 PM

 

apparently car journeys have been cut by a 3rd due to continuing fuel price hikes, seeing as most are unnecessary surely a good thing?

 

Perhaps organizing four holidays abroad this year is unnecessary Judge :D

 

and going round in your van on a day to day basis is hardly green either :'( get a push bike eh :D

[Colin Leake]

bolero boy - 2013-02-26 6:14 PM

 

euroserv - 2013-02-26 12:51 PM

 

Hello,

 

What is bothering me, more than anything else is the cost of Fuel.

 

..........................because we took their advice and purchased more economical vehicles and are more careful with our fuel budgets and they are complaining that revenue from Duty is too low!!!

 

Nick

yes, I agree. Manufacturers spent a fortune on refining diesel powered cars into things acceptable to former owners of petrol cars.

Power, torque, smoothness, quiet - all available now with 50+ mpg.

So we all buy one and start to enjoy our better fuel economy and residual values, especially as diesel was cheaper than petrol....................

Oh now what's happening - revenues down, let's start nailing the diesel drivers with higher fuel costs and road taxes.

Manufacturers respond with vigour!

Even better mpg but revenues fall so diesel rises again and again....................

 

I reckon that if we even got our cars and vans to run on air or water this would also be punitively taxed in order to maintain the take.

At the end of the day, our services need to be paid for and it doesnt really matter what label goes on the tax (income, fuel duty, IHT to name but three bones of contention) it's the numbers that have to add up at the Exchequer.

 

Problem is in a way that they have been so successful in getting us to all change over to diesel. From a given barrel of crude you can only get so much diesel though the amount varies between different types of crude. In effect diesel is becoming in short supply and hence the increase in price. Mind you like others I to blame speculators for much of the problem.

 

Our next car will be petrol because we use it very little nowadays and our mainly short journeys could cause problems with the particulate filter (blame the EU for than). Shame though as by and large now the Diesel engines are better than the petrol ones. Certainly so in the case of the Honda CRv we have on order. I have to keep telling myself at my age I'm no longer a boy racer and the more relaxed performance (a polite way of putting it) will suit us better.

[Guest JudgeMental]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-26 6:49 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-02-26 6:39 PM

 

apparently car journeys have been cut by a 3rd due to continuing fuel price hikes, seeing as most are unnecessary surely a good thing?

 

Perhaps organizing four holidays abroad this year is unnecessary Judge :D

 

and going round in your van on a day to day basis is hardly green either :'( get a push bike eh :D

 

FYI £ still at 1.15

 

I dont use it day to day..I use the e bike. Or now that I have a "freedom pass" as have just turned 60 I use trains and buses if weather poor. But my preference is for cycling as it is a hell of a lot faster and more enjoyable.

 

I only used it recently for moving stuff, dropping e bike of for warranty work, and got it out again yesterday to check the judder thing out....

 

I use a wood burner, only eat seasonal fruit a veg, not this stuff flown half way round the world. So even with a couple of long hall flights a year my carbon foot print negligible! :D

 

The campsite we go to in Spain is the first in the country to use a heating system fueled by renewable s (wood pellets) :D

[Colin Leake]

JudgeMental - 2013-02-25 7:39 PM

 

what what makes you think I would prefer not to either. Boy! I know tracker is thick but you 2 make a right pair of smug ignorent barstewards

 

Tracker I know we are both smug ignorant (now spelt correctly) barstewards but do you have any idea what a barsteward is. I suspect it's some form of navel compliment.

[Tracker]

Colin Leake - 2013-02-26 7:19 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-02-25 7:39 PM

 

what what makes you think I would prefer not to either. Boy! I know tracker is thick but you 2 make a right pair of smug ignorent barstewards

 

Tracker I know we are both smug ignorant (now spelt correctly) barstewards but do you have any idea what a barsteward is. I suspect it's some form of navel compliment.

 

I think a barsteward is a fatherless bloke who works in a pub Colin??

 

Would you please leave my belly button out of this - it's far too busy accumulating fluff to be involved in serving drinks!

 

Perhaps that what Mr Temper A Mental does to earn a crust and he is trying to bring us down to his level??

 

[Guest peter]

Colin Leake - 2013-02-26 7:19 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-02-25 7:39 PM

 

what what makes you think I would prefer not to either. Boy! I know tracker is thick but you 2 make a right pair of smug ignorent barstewards

 

Tracker I know we are both smug ignorant (now spelt correctly) barstewards but do you have any idea what a barsteward is. I suspect it's some form of navel compliment.

Don't you mean naval (spelling). :D

[Colin Leake]

peter - 2013-02-26 7:39 PM

 

Colin Leake - 2013-02-26 7:19 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-02-25 7:39 PM

 

what what makes you think I would prefer not to either. Boy! I know tracker is thick but you 2 make a right pair of smug ignorent barstewards

 

Tracker I know we are both smug ignorant (now spelt correctly) barstewards but do you have any idea what a barsteward is. I suspect it's some form of navel compliment.

Don't you mean naval (spelling). :D

 

A so my spell checker did not check this cone for context.

[Colin Leake]

rupert123 - 2013-02-25 8:35 PM

 

Colin Leake - 2013-02-25 7:32 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-02-25 6:16 PM

 

Colin Leake - 2013-02-25 4:56 PM

 

Tracker - 2013-02-24 5:58 PM

 

I wouldn't call $479 Billion dollars nearly nothing and in spite of valiant attempts to transform the country into a debt ridden nation of takers and government employees we are still the 10 th largest exporting economy in the world.

 

Why do people have to talk this country down I wonder - that really is depressing!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports

 

Tracker You have to make allow for the fact that he is a glass half empty buy German type. Whilst its true much of what goes into a British motorhome is imported the building of them gives employment to British Workers who pay taxes and earn money which they then spend mainly in the UK. For my part we buy British built whenever we can. Our current motorhome is British built AutoTrail, our car is a British built Toyota and the next one is due to be a British built Honda. OK none are British owned companies but at least they are built in the UK.

 

I almost take delight in the fact that our German champion will have to pay more for his next motorhome if he wants to buy German.

 

Incidentally the Germans in the main got where they are by being patriotic supporting their own manufacturers and allowing them to grow strong.

 

When I was young I was the works engineer for a company that made small domestic appliances not only under their own label for many prestige continental companies as well some of whom were German. How the world has changed from then.

 

I'm on my last van thanks there will not be another, But I would never buy a crap built UK van in any case even if they were being given away...Have not in the last 20 odd years so unlikely to start now. FYI it may of escaped your notice but we are in a European market and without it we are sunk..Tell me what bit of your van is not imported and the car you drive is a japenese imported kit assembled here to get around trade restrictions. What are all the white goods and electronics in your house I wonder...More jingoistic and clueless flag waving .

 

Your right on one respect, the Germans believe in their people..and are not saddled with a divisive class system. They educate and invest in the future and the long term. whereas here the economy has always been dominated by a short term get rich quick mentality. due to many factors including the banks.

 

If you haven't bought a British motorhome in the last 20 years just how do you know they are crap?

 

Yes a good deal of the fittings etc in our AutoTrail are imported and the company is foreign owned but its still built in Britain and provides employment for UK workers. It's certainly not crap. The build quality in all respects is superb and at the very least a match for the teutonic vans you seem so besotted by.

 

Much of our present Toyota is UK built.

 

As for the Honda CRV we have on order most of it is not only built in the UK but in large it's designed in the UK where we have internationally recognised expertise.

 

I'll give you our white goods are all Miele which does mean they are German and one has to admit they are superb quality built to last a life time (well at our age anyway) but I would have preferred timid we had been able to purchase UK made goods.

 

You are certainly correct about the Honda CRV Colin. My eldest grandson got a 1st in accountancy and was offered a job in Swindon on what Honda call their graduate training program. He is currently working as a buyer for them and although they buy stuff in from all over the place most of the car is made in Swindon, even the engines are built their so kit cars they are not, in fact nothing at all is shipped from Japan. Like others I get tired of Eddies comments about UK vans and his almost total lack of knowledge about them, mind you he seems to believe if you cannot see damp it does not count so why would anyone take much notice. The Germans come to the UK if they really want something built properly, take the Merc GP car, all UK built even the engine is designed and built in the UK, same engine is in the Maclaren with great big Merc badges on, the only bit they supply. The only really bad van I have had was a Hymer but it was a few years ago so cannot really comment much on the new ones except I find German vans, at least the ones I looked at last year, old fashioned in design and layout with very little in new ideas. Overpriced and overated, bit like their cars and vans.

 

What puts us off many continental motorhomes is the amount of space their flashy fixed tables take up. The separate tables used by most UK manufacturers use may look a little basic but they are much more practical and one can even use them outside.

[Rayjsj]

I have been having a quiet look around for an LPG fueled car, VERY surprised that Vauxhall have stopped selling them, seems that Mazda and Proton, are the only manufacturers fitting a fully warranted LPG system on a new car. Of course you could fit a conversion to an 'Out of warranty' 2nd hand one, But i was looking for a new one with a 5 year warranty. Strange now that diesel and petrol are hitting dizzy heights. (have 2 garages locally that sell the stuff by pump). Ray

[Mel B]

peter - 2013-02-26 4:51 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-02-25 7:39 PM

 

what what makes you think I would prefer not to either. Boy! I know tracker is thick but you 2 make a right pair of smug ignorent barstewards

You'll have to stop agravating dick like this Eddie, or you will have Mel, B after you. She gave me a right tongue lashing last time I did it. You have been warned. (lol)

 

I thought you enjoyed a good old fashioned 'lashing' Peter ... or should that be whipping! :D :$ Oo-er ... you and Judge are getting more and more alike every day .... Tweedle-dee and Tweedle-dum perhaps? (lol) ;-)

[Tracker]

Tweedledum and Tweedledumber!

[Bulletguy]

euroserv - 2013-02-26 12:51 PM

 

What is bothering me, more than anything else is the cost of Fuel.

 

When the price was peaking a couple of years ago it was something like £1.35 per litre and the Nymex crude oil price was about $120 per barrel.

 

Now it is £1.45 per litre and rising while the oil price is 'just' $88 a barrel.

 

Even with the drop in value of the Pound against the Dollar which has been 5% since that time ( and not the 7% that has been reported because it has been up and down like a yoyo in 2 years! ) there seems to be little justification for the increases of late.

 

The price of fuel affects EVERYTHING in this country. It will be the main reason for inflationary increases in the coming months. It could be the most significant influence in our stifled economy, and the Government will not do anything because we took their advice and purchased more economical vehicles and are more careful with our fuel budgets and they are complaining that revenue from Duty is too low!!!

 

 

Surprisingly there are some people who think our fuel prices need to rise even more!!

 

 

bolero boy - 2013-02-26 6:14 PM

 

yes, I agree. Manufacturers spent a fortune on refining diesel powered cars into things acceptable to former owners of petrol cars. Power, torque, smoothness, quiet - all available now with 50+ mpg.

So we all buy one and start to enjoy our better fuel economy and residual values, especially as diesel was cheaper than petrol....................Oh now what's happening - revenues down, let's start nailing the diesel drivers with higher fuel costs and road taxes.

 

Manufacturers respond with vigour!

Even better mpg but revenues fall so diesel rises again and again....................

 

I reckon that if we even got our cars and vans to run on air or water this would also be punitively taxed in order to maintain the take.

 

 

You have both highlighted what is so badly wrong in the UK 'system'......punitive taxation forever on the increase.

 

Before BMW and Audi led the way in refining the diesel engine to the point of making it a highly efficient performance engine nobody even dreamt of owning a diesel engined car as they were sluggish, agricultural and poor performing. The only advantage of owning one was that Diesel fuel was much cheaper to buy than Petrol.

 

Other manufacturers began working on Diesel engines.....they got better......and people began buying them. Eventually people were buying diesel engines in preference to petrol.

 

The cost of Diesel then rises above that of Petrol to the point where it is now six or seven pence a litre more. The tree hugging lentil eaters will tell you this is because refining diesel is different to that of petrol (of which i'm sure they are right), and is an expensive process. Well i'm no expert in the Oil Industry but my cousin is........and he tells me the method of refining diesel is the same now as when it was cheaper than petrol.

 

If this is all beginning to sound a tad cynical it's because it is.

 

Vehicle manufacturers then begin producing these 'micro eco cars' (or whatever description they use now) which have astounding mpg and qualify for £20pa road tax or in some cases zero. So people begin to buy them. Government are now looking at ways to increase the taxation on these vehicles.

 

Finally........the one 'positive' to this rubbish exchange rate.

 

Fuel is a lot cheaper in EVERY country outside the UK........even Germany and Austria, both countries usually considered to be 'expensive' to tour.

 

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I think you are bang on, but I'll make a prediction as well, in ten years time most will have reverted back to petrol when the apparent stupidity of making diesel cars so clean they become unfit for purpose as is now the case when used for small commuting mileages with DPF's and EGR problems become more and more apparent and costly to put right.

Me I've already gone back to a petrol car ;-)

[John 47]

Bulletguy - 2013-02-26 10:42 PM

 

Before BMW and Audi led the way in refining the diesel engine to the point of making it a highly efficient performance engine nobody even dreamt of owning a diesel engined car as they were sluggish, agricultural and poor performing. The only advantage of owning one was that Diesel fuel was much cheaper to buy than Petrol.

 

Other manufacturers began working on Diesel engines.....they got better......and people began buying them. Eventually people were buying diesel engines in preference to petrol.

 

The cost of Diesel then rises above that of Petrol to the point where it is now six or seven pence a litre more. The tree hugging lentil eaters will tell you this is because refining diesel is different to that of petrol (of which i'm sure they are right), and is an expensive process. Well i'm no expert in the Oil Industry but my cousin is........and he tells me the method of refining diesel is the same now as when it was cheaper than petrol.

 

If this is all beginning to sound a tad cynical it's because it is.

 

Vehicle manufacturers then begin producing these 'micro eco cars' (or whatever description they use now) which have astounding mpg and qualify for £20pa road tax or in some cases zero. So people begin to buy them. Government are now looking at ways to increase the taxation on these vehicles.

 

Finally........the one 'positive' to this rubbish exchange rate.

 

Fuel is a lot cheaper in EVERY country outside the UK........even Germany and Austria, both countries usually considered to be 'expensive' to tour.

 

 

The thing that confuses me is that it is only in the UK that diesel is more expensive than petrol. Down here in south-east Spain at the moment, for example, diesel is around 1.40 euros (it has been as low as 1.32) and petol is over 1.50. That seems to be typical of the price differential across all of Europe other than the UK. Nobody has yet provided me with a satisfactory explanation of that one!

 

 

[Guest peter]

Explanation = Government rip off. Because diesel is more efficient and due to this, tax revenue would be lower. As someone has already explained in an earlier post.

[John 47]

peter - 2013-02-27 10:49 AM

 

Explanation = Government rip off. Because diesel is more efficient and due to this, tax revenue would be lower. As someone has already explained in an earlier post.

 

But how does that explain why diesel is more expensive in the UK and cheaper across the rest of Europe? Or are you saying that only the UK government engages in rip-offs? :-D

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

peter - 2013-02-27 10:49 AM

 

Explanation = Government rip off. Because diesel is more efficient and due to this, tax revenue would be lower. As someone has already explained in an earlier post.

 

Read somewhere the UK does not have the refining capacity for diesel, perhaps some is directly imported that has been through the refining process which may add to the cost, or as you say it's just a rip off. :'(

[Guest JudgeMental]

You wait till they bring in dual taxation and property taxation..No stone will be left upturned in the search for more cunning ways to extract more money out of us. Thatcher wanted to do it (propert tax) but they talked her out of it as it was an election loser. Lets face it an economy based on retail shopping, and the lack of confidence to do that shopping is a basket case anyway..... .

 

£ still wavering around 1.15 8-)

[John 47]

I've no doubt that the UK government would tax fresh air if they could get away with it but I am still at a loss to understand why the UK is the only European country where diesel is more expensive than petrol - and by some considerable distance.

[nowtelse2do]

John 47 - 2013-02-27 12:50 PM

 

I've no doubt that the UK government would tax fresh air if they could get away with it but I am still at a loss to understand why the UK is the only European country where diesel is more expensive than petrol - and by some considerable distance.

 

I think it's called profiteering from a captured audience, either by both the fuel companies and the government. We stand no chance against both these companies. Same goes with the energy firms. :-(

 

Dave

[John 47]

nowtelse2do - 2013-02-27 1:15 PM

 

John 47 - 2013-02-27 12:50 PM

 

I've no doubt that the UK government would tax fresh air if they could get away with it but I am still at a loss to understand why the UK is the only European country where diesel is more expensive than petrol - and by some considerable distance.

 

I think it's called profiteering from a captured audience, either by both the fuel companies and the government. We stand no chance against both these companies. Same goes with the energy firms. :-(

 

Dave

 

Fair enough - but why should the UK companies/government choose to penalise diesel owners more than petrol owners when across the rest of Europe it is the other way round? Since most of our food amd other essentials are transported around the country using diesel it seems to me to be the height of folly to make diesel more expensive - especially in a recession.

[nowtelse2do]

John 47 - 2013-02-27 1:47 PM

 

nowtelse2do - 2013-02-27 1:15 PM

 

John 47 - 2013-02-27 12:50 PM

 

I've no doubt that the UK government would tax fresh air if they could get away with it but I am still at a loss to understand why the UK is the only European country where diesel is more expensive than petrol - and by some considerable distance.

 

I think it's called profiteering from a captured audience, either by both the fuel companies and the government. We stand no chance against both these companies. Same goes with the energy firms. :-(

 

Dave

 

Fair enough - but why should the UK companies/government choose to penalise diesel owners more than petrol owners when across the rest of Europe it is the other way round? Since most of our food amd other essentials are transported around the country using diesel it seems to me to be the height of folly to make diesel more expensive - especially in a recession.

 

First they gradually (sneakily) brought it UP to the level of petrol price when they realised they were loosing income on lower petrol consumption, then the duty was increased even more because it caused more pollution (the Green Lobby). If we reverted back to petrol engined cars, it would be the same scenario as above, it won't come down. What is theft is that you pay vat on duty, two bites of the apple there, then the fuel companies have to pay company tax. No wonder they won't bring the tax down.......well not voluntary

 

Dave

[Guest JudgeMental]

Telegraaphs Honest John:

 

"Apparently, 60 per cent of the price of UK diesel is fuel tax and VAT, which accounts for only 49 per cent of the price in France. With petrol the rates are 56 per cent (France) and 58 per cent (UK)."

 

it is just taxed heavily because they can get away with it! And like John said it just pushes up the prices of everything we buy....Crazy

 

No wonder the UK known as Treasure Island!

[Basil]

Can't say for the rest of Europe but certainly France subsidises Deisel by taking a lesser tax, quite rightly in my opinion as it is the fuel that transports goods in the main, that is why it is cheaper than petrol in France.

As regards the increase in cost of Deisel, despite the conspiricy theories, the fact is that Deisel used to be a sort of by product of the making of petrol and was sold virtually as it was refined, however due to the 'Green' lobby and the sandle wearing tree huggers it has been deemed that the Sulpher content must be removed, hence low sulpher and so called 'city' deisel. That process has an on cost to it that has had to be added to the price you pay at the pumps and is the major cause of the increase in the cost.

 

Bas

[Bulletguy]

John 47 - 2013-02-27 10:22 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2013-02-26 10:42 PM

 

Before BMW and Audi led the way in refining the diesel engine to the point of making it a highly efficient performance engine nobody even dreamt of owning a diesel engined car as they were sluggish, agricultural and poor performing. The only advantage of owning one was that Diesel fuel was much cheaper to buy than Petrol.

 

Other manufacturers began working on Diesel engines.....they got better......and people began buying them. Eventually people were buying diesel engines in preference to petrol.

 

The cost of Diesel then rises above that of Petrol to the point where it is now six or seven pence a litre more. The tree hugging lentil eaters will tell you this is because refining diesel is different to that of petrol (of which i'm sure they are right), and is an expensive process. Well i'm no expert in the Oil Industry but my cousin is........and he tells me the method of refining diesel is the same now as when it was cheaper than petrol.

 

If this is all beginning to sound a tad cynical it's because it is.

 

Vehicle manufacturers then begin producing these 'micro eco cars' (or whatever description they use now) which have astounding mpg and qualify for £20pa road tax or in some cases zero. So people begin to buy them. Government are now looking at ways to increase the taxation on these vehicles.

 

Finally........the one 'positive' to this rubbish exchange rate.

 

Fuel is a lot cheaper in EVERY country outside the UK........even Germany and Austria, both countries usually considered to be 'expensive' to tour.

 

 

The thing that confuses me is that it is only in the UK that diesel is more expensive than petrol. Down here in south-east Spain at the moment, for example, diesel is around 1.40 euros (it has been as low as 1.32) and petol is over 1.50. That seems to be typical of the price differential across all of Europe other than the UK. Nobody has yet provided me with a satisfactory explanation of that one!

 

 

John

 

Last year I was paying €1.25 per litre for diesel and that was in Austria! In Poland, Romania and Bulgaria it was less.

 

The only conclusion I can draw to answer your final point is that here in the UK, Government look at what people make the most use of, what is popular........and then whack it as hard as possible with taxation. It's a form of legalised 'robbery' which always hits the less well off first and hardest with the better off not even noticing any increase in costs. In fact many better off lead such insular lifestyles they are totally indifferent to what such punitive taxation means for societies 'joe soaps'.

 

My B-I-L who lives in London is a good example of this. Along with my sister he called in to see me on their way up to visit friends in Yorkshire and discussion turned to the fuel price hikes when my B-I-L came out with a jaw dropping remark, "well at least it will keep more people off the roads and make them use public transport".

 

Sitting outside my house was their car which they had driven up from London in, but when I pointed this out to him he just couldn't see what a crass remark he'd made.