Triple 'A' Rating

[Guest Peter James]

We already have interest rates below 0% if you take inflation into account.

Not sure the BoE are idiots. They knew what they were doing when they transferred the BoE Pension fund into index linked bonds before cranking up the printing presses and trashing ours.

[nowtelse2do]

Dave225 - 2013-03-03 8:17 PM

 

The crazy thing is the Euro wil probably survive as there are enough countries supporting it to make it so, yes there will be pain and lots of it but it will survive. The Pound??????well I am not so sure. For sure the idiots in the B of E have no idea what to do.

 

Dave, most countries are taking out more than they are putting in, and all those countries in the eurozone are relying on one country to bail them out.

 

Dave

[Dave225]

nowtelse2do - 2013-03-04 7:17 PM

 

Dave225 - 2013-03-03 8:17 PM

 

The crazy thing is the Euro wil probably survive as there are enough countries supporting it to make it so, yes there will be pain and lots of it but it will survive. The Pound??????well I am not so sure. For sure the idiots in the B of E have no idea what to do.

 

Dave, most countries are taking out more than they are putting in, and all those countries in the eurozone are relying on one country to bail them out.

 

Dave

 

While I fully understand where you are coming from, I do not think I agree. Although like others I thought the euro was doomed, it seemingly has managed to survive umpteen disasters. I also fully accept that there may be more disasters to come, but I have a sneaky suspicion the euro will remain. As for 1 country bailing it out, again although i sympathise with the viewpoint, i do not believe it to be true. Although we are a big contributor to the EU we are still small fry compared to the total budget and although our removal would be a loss, it is not insurmountable.That does not mean to say I think we should stay in at all costs, the UK has to decide its own future, but the eurozone will not change that dramatically. I suspect there will be 'accomodations' along the way to allow certain countries to recover and some countries may even withdraw, but the core will stay. We have a European Central Bank but it does not fulfill that total purpose as yet. Once it does become the bank of all Europe then it will need a currency and the euro will be it. Being either in or out for the UK will be as good, or bad, as our own politicians make it, and for that reason I am not hopeful for our future.

[Guest Peter James]

Britain has never really been in the EEC because British politicians ignore Europe whenever it suits them - like the illegal invasion of Iraq. We don't have the European currency, have our own (higher) tax rates, insist on privatising most of the infrastructure so we lose out on EEC grants, and don't get me started on the border crossings - every other European Border I drive through without even slowing down, yet when you come into England you get all this sh*te and delays.

Britain is effectively half in/half out of Europe getting the worst of both worlds.

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Peter James - 2013-03-05 9:16 AM

 

Britain is effectively half in/half out of Europe getting the worst of both worlds.

 

Yep I agree ;-)........................its time we got out :D

[Guest peter]

Please explain how we would benefit by pulling out Dave. I'd be very interested to know. If you can't answer, how did you come to that decision?. (?) :D

[Guest pelmetman]

peter - 2013-03-05 8:13 PM

 

Please explain how we would benefit by pulling out Dave. I'd be very interested to know. If you can't answer, how did you come to that decision?. (?) :D

 

Simples ;-)..............as has already been said we have never fully committed, so we are getting the worst of both worlds *-)...................and as a country I can't see us ever becoming true Europeans >:-).............and despite what the scaremongers would have us believe, Europe will not close its doors to us if we leave..........as our market is to valuable ;-)...........although they'll probably have a hissy fit (lol) (lol) (lol)

[Guest peter]

Sorry Dave that won't do, as you haven't answered my questions. Please stop being a politician and answer the questions, as jeremy paxman would say. :D

[Guest pelmetman]

peter - 2013-03-05 8:44 PM

 

Sorry Dave that won't do, as you haven't answered my questions. Please stop being a politician and answer the questions, as jeremy paxman would say. :D

 

Personally £74.53...........but as a couple £149.06 ;-)..................that's 2 weeks on a campsite in Spain B-)

 

With an estimated UK population of 63.1m people, this means that every man, woman and child paid €178.65 (£144.17) towards the EU budget in 2011.

They got back €104.12, meaning their net contribution was €74.53.

[John 47]

pelmetman - 2013-03-05 8:51 PM

 

peter - 2013-03-05 8:44 PM

 

Sorry Dave that won't do, as you haven't answered my questions. Please stop being a politician and answer the questions, as jeremy paxman would say. :D

 

Personally £74.53...........but as a couple £149.06 ;-)..................that's 2 weeks on a campsite in Spain B-)

 

With an estimated UK population of 63.1m people, this means that every man, woman and child paid €178.65 (£144.17) towards the EU budget in 2011.

They got back €104.12, meaning their net contribution was €74.53.

 

Ah yes, but if we leave the EU then they will tighten up on how long Brits are allowed to be in Spain, so you won't get your extra two weeks! (lol)

[Guest Peter James]

I can see advantages of being in the EEC, and advantages from being out.

(Personally, I think we would be best off joining the EEC proper so we get the advantages the rest of Europe does. If only because Brussels is not as bad as Westminster)

But either being in or being out would be better than the effective half in - half out situation we have at the moment.

[CliveH]

At the risk of inflaming the EU Good - EU Bad debate all over again - we are brewing to another Euro crisis.

 

The euro crisis reached a critical point a year or so ago. One of the symptoms was negative government bonds. A sticking plaster has been applied but the underlying problem still exists. The yield on 10-year Spanish bonds was above the levels that prompted Greece, Portugal and Ireland to seek outside assistance from the European Union and International Monetary Fund. A similar bailout for Spain—the fourth largest euro zone economy—would be far more costly and messy.

 

The resulting fall-out could still cause the euro zone to break apart. A particularly troubling sign is the recent flattening of the Spanish yield curve, with short-term yields catching up with long-term rates. This implies that investors see relatively higher risks in the short term.

 

Given the abnormal financial stress in the euro zone, a negative yield on Government Bonds is just a symptom of the euro zone's deeper problem. Index linked Bonds go some way to control this but the growing instability is running in parallel to the discontent within the populations of the PIIGS who understandably want out of a system that seems to want to dictate decades of austerity just so the controlling countries within the Eurozone can maintain the status guo.

 

The lack of a fiscal or political compact to share the costs and benefits of the single currency “properly” across the member states is causing the whole thing to creak and groan. Rampant Inflation in the Southern States & Ireland (The PIIGS) is balanced by real fears of deflation in Northern European States.

 

It is like a see-saw within a closed system where zero is when the see-saw is level or horizontal and so within that closed system high inflation in the PIIGS, which raises their end of the see-saw, (that being controlled by QE via the ECB) means that the Northern economies (those that control the Euro) – who sit on the other end of the see-saw – see it as perfectly logical that their Government Bonds can be issued with negative rates.

 

Europe's political leaders and the heads of the European Central Bank appear so far from a solution to the real crisis that negative yields appear normal. The market is signalling that it considers inadequate the steps taken so far to address the crisis, which mainly involve putting the burden on struggling peripheral economies. It is still thought that unless the euro zone's healthier members are willing to share the risk, the euro may be near its end. Reflecting this growing reality, the euro-denominated capital market has fragmented along national lines.

 

Not a good sign, despite the relative calm we currently experience.

 

The Euro in my view needs to be dismantled and those countries that were within it need to be free to set their own currency levels and interest rates.

 

The EU needs to be a solid and strong trading block – not a political junket.

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-03-06 8:28 AM

 

pelmetman - 2013-03-05 8:51 PM

 

peter - 2013-03-05 8:44 PM

 

Sorry Dave that won't do, as you haven't answered my questions. Please stop being a politician and answer the questions, as jeremy paxman would say. :D

 

Personally £74.53...........but as a couple £149.06 ;-)..................that's 2 weeks on a campsite in Spain B-)

 

With an estimated UK population of 63.1m people, this means that every man, woman and child paid €178.65 (£144.17) towards the EU budget in 2011.

They got back €104.12, meaning their net contribution was €74.53.

 

Ah yes, but if we leave the EU then they will tighten up on how long Brits are allowed to be in Spain, so you won't get your extra two weeks! (lol)

 

Do you really think a country like Spain will stop people with money to spend coming? *-)............

 

Spain's not like the UK where we invite people to have free medical care and benefits without contributing a penny ;-)........

[Guest Peter James]

The Euro may be a mickey mouse currency.

Nevertheless, its held its value a lot better than the pound.

Joining it would avoid the uncertainty of exchange rates, and banker's commisions, which are further handicaps to British Industry which their EEC competitors don't have.

But the Government seem to think they can overcome all the handicaps they have created for British Industry simply by printing more money and trashing its value..... *-)

[John 47]

pelmetman - 2013-03-06 9:37 AM

 

John 47 - 2013-03-06 8:28 AM

 

pelmetman - 2013-03-05 8:51 PM

 

peter - 2013-03-05 8:44 PM

 

Sorry Dave that won't do, as you haven't answered my questions. Please stop being a politician and answer the questions, as jeremy paxman would say. :D

 

Personally £74.53...........but as a couple £149.06 ;-)..................that's 2 weeks on a campsite in Spain B-)

 

With an estimated UK population of 63.1m people, this means that every man, woman and child paid €178.65 (£144.17) towards the EU budget in 2011.

They got back €104.12, meaning their net contribution was €74.53.

 

Ah yes, but if we leave the EU then they will tighten up on how long Brits are allowed to be in Spain, so you won't get your extra two weeks! (lol)

 

Do you really think a country like Spain will stop people with money to spend coming? *-)............

 

Spain's not like the UK where we invite people to have free medical care and benefits without contributing a penny ;-)........

 

I certainly think they will tighten up on the rules that allow us to stay for a virtually unlimited time over winter. If the UK votes to leave then that is something the EU cannot allow to spread. We will be used as a warning to any others thinking of leaving. That would, imo, involve enforcing much more limited stays, pulling up British vehicles for minor infringements etc. They cannot afford to allow us to leave the EU and reap the same benefits. It would be particularly bad for ex-pats who have permanent residences in Spain.

 

Incidentally, we have used the excellent and free Spanish medical system on several ocassions - I rate it above the NHS.

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-03-06 11:05 AM

 

I certainly think they will tighten up on the rules that allow us to stay for a virtually unlimited time over winter. If the UK votes to leave then that is something the EU cannot allow to spread. We will be used as a warning to any others thinking of leaving. That would, imo, involve enforcing much more limited stays, pulling up British vehicles for minor infringements etc. They cannot afford to allow us to leave the EU and reap the same benefits. It would be particularly bad for ex-pats who have permanent residences in Spain.

 

Incidentally, we have used the excellent and free Spanish medical system on several ocassions - I rate it above the NHS.

 

I cant see the Spanish getting uppity with the British tourist who brings 100's millions into their economy every year.................and scaremongering like that is only to be expected from EU lovers ;-)........tourists are not stupid and if the perceive they are being targeted unfairly then they'll stay away.

 

I agree about the Spanish health system having spent half our holiday visiting my Dad in hospital, and then taking him down the doctors everyday for a week when he got out :-S............one thing I did notice was a big sign saying the staff are not required to speak English and its "your" responsibility to supply an interpreter at "your" cost ;-)

[CliveH]

Peter James - 2013-03-06 10:23 AM

 

The Euro may be a mickey mouse currency.

Nevertheless, its held its value a lot better than the pound.

Joining it would avoid the uncertainty of exchange rates, and banker's commisions, which are further handicaps to British Industry which their EEC competitors don't have.

But the Government seem to think they can overcome all the handicaps they have created for British Industry simply by printing more money and trashing its value..... *-)

 

Not sure what your definition of mickey mouse is so cannot comment on that. But I believe the issue is too many countries that should never have been allowed to join were shoehorned in and that is why it is creaking.

 

It has held its value against the GBP because of the manipulations that make negative bund sales seem normal - i.e. Germany calls the shots. With the outcome of the Italian election and the German one later this year we could see a distinct increase in scepticism towards the one size fits all dogma of Merkel.

 

Why is uncertain exchange rates a problem?

 

http://uk.advfn.com/p.php?pid=qkchart&symbol=FX%5EGBPEUR

 

If you want to sell more to boost your economy you lower the value of your currency to make your product more competitive. This is exactly what the PIIGS need to do but cannot - so their Government Bonds go through the roof and hit "Junk" status whilst Germanys move into negative territory.

 

I really do not think having the GBP outside of the Euro is a handicap at all - quite the reverse.

 

But I would agree that QE is a very dangerous strategy - one that only works when the Gilts issued are backed up by money recently printed is a recipe for trouble.

 

However, it is being done to put the GBP at the correct level against the Euro and the $US - whilst this is not the best for Tourist rates - for business - the last thing we need right now is a strong GBP.

 

 

[John 47]

pelmetman - 2013-03-06 11:25 AM

 

John 47 - 2013-03-06 11:05 AM

 

I certainly think they will tighten up on the rules that allow us to stay for a virtually unlimited time over winter. If the UK votes to leave then that is something the EU cannot allow to spread. We will be used as a warning to any others thinking of leaving. That would, imo, involve enforcing much more limited stays, pulling up British vehicles for minor infringements etc. They cannot afford to allow us to leave the EU and reap the same benefits. It would be particularly bad for ex-pats who have permanent residences in Spain.

 

Incidentally, we have used the excellent and free Spanish medical system on several ocassions - I rate it above the NHS.

 

I cant see the Spanish getting uppity with the British tourist who brings 100's millions into their economy every year.................and scaremongering like that is only to be expected from EU lovers ;-)........tourists are not stupid and if the perceive they are being targeted unfairly then they'll stay away.

 

I agree about the Spanish health system having spent half our holiday visiting my Dad in hospital, and then taking him down the doctors everyday for a week when he got out :-S............one thing I did notice was a big sign saying the staff are not required to speak English and its "your" responsibility to supply an interpreter at "your" cost ;-)

 

But the point is that most of Spain's tourist income will be unaffected. By tightening up on the long-termers they will be losing proportinately not very much but they will be annoying quite a few people. Plus the fact that if enforcement of such a rule is made a condition of continuing to get financial benefits (Spain is a net receiver) then they sure as hell will enforce such rules. Don't fool yourself, if we exit the EU then we retired motorhomers will not have the same freedoms to travel as we enjoy today. I don't expect a great deal of sympathy because most aren't in such a fortuante position as us - but don't think we won't be adversely affected.

 

As for the "interpreter" rule in Spain - I think anyone who spends any length of time in a country ought to learn the language - if not, they can't complain if they have to pay.

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-03-06 12:10 PM

 

But the point is that most of Spain's tourist income will be unaffected. By tightening up on the long-termers they will be losing proportinately not very much but they will be annoying quite a few people. Plus the fact that if enforcement of such a rule is made a condition of continuing to get financial benefits (Spain is a net receiver) then they sure as hell will enforce such rules. Don't fool yourself, if we exit the EU then we retired motorhomers will not have the same freedoms to travel as we enjoy today. I don't expect a great deal of sympathy because most aren't in such a fortuante position as us - but don't think we won't be adversely affected.

 

As for the "interpreter" rule in Spain - I think anyone who spends any length of time in a country ought to learn the language - if not, they can't complain if they have to pay.

 

I'm prepared to take the risk to get rid of the Kinnocks retirement home *-)

 

I agree people who live in another persons country should make the effort to integrate;-).............but they prefer to set up mini Bagdads instead, and get the taxpayer to fund their interpreters :-S

 

The health service spent £23m last year on translators and interpreters, an increase of 17 per cent since 2007.

Experts said vast sums could be saved if hospitals and GPs pooled resources, """"and warned that providing translation for those who do not speak English could encourage segregation."""""

 

Some NHS trusts translate material into 120 languages!!!!!!!

 

"The costs involved are truly staggering in an age of autseterity, and incredible when taken in the context of efficiency savings of £20bn across the Health Service," said Julia Manning, of 2020Health, the think tank which conducted the research.

 

"Urgent action must be taken by trusts to stem the flow of translation costs, and our report sets out a number of recommendations that would do exactly that without altering the level of care given."

[John 47]

pelmetman - 2013-03-06 12:31 PM

 

John 47 - 2013-03-06 12:10 PM

 

But the point is that most of Spain's tourist income will be unaffected. By tightening up on the long-termers they will be losing proportinately not very much but they will be annoying quite a few people. Plus the fact that if enforcement of such a rule is made a condition of continuing to get financial benefits (Spain is a net receiver) then they sure as hell will enforce such rules. Don't fool yourself, if we exit the EU then we retired motorhomers will not have the same freedoms to travel as we enjoy today. I don't expect a great deal of sympathy because most aren't in such a fortuante position as us - but don't think we won't be adversely affected.

 

As for the "interpreter" rule in Spain - I think anyone who spends any length of time in a country ought to learn the language - if not, they can't complain if they have to pay.

 

I'm prepared to take the risk to get rid of the Kinnocks retirement home *-)

 

I agree people who live in another persons country should make the effort to integrate;-).............but they prefer to set up mini Bagdads instead, and get the taxpayer to fund their interpreters :-S

 

The health service spent £23m last year on translators and interpreters, an increase of 17 per cent since 2007.

Experts said vast sums could be saved if hospitals and GPs pooled resources, """"and warned that providing translation for those who do not speak English could encourage segregation."""""

 

Some NHS trusts translate material into 120 languages!!!!!!!

 

"The costs involved are truly staggering in an age of autseterity, and incredible when taken in the context of efficiency savings of £20bn across the Health Service," said Julia Manning, of 2020Health, the think tank which conducted the research.

 

"Urgent action must be taken by trusts to stem the flow of translation costs, and our report sets out a number of recommendations that would do exactly that without altering the level of care given."

 

No doubt the Kinnocks would find a buyer for their home but the likes of us would have to alter our winter plans, so your view sounds a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face to me! :-D

 

I see we've moved on to translation costs now - don't argue with any of it but can't see its relevance to what we were talking about.

[RogerC]

John 47 - 2013-03-06 12:10 PM

pelmetman - 2013-03-06 11:25 AM

John 47 - 2013-03-06 11:05 AMI certainly think they will tighten up on the rules that allow us to stay for a virtually unlimited time over winter. If the UK votes to leave then that is something the EU cannot allow to spread. We will be used as a warning to any others thinking of leaving. That would, imo, involve enforcing much more limited stays, pulling up British vehicles for minor infringements etc. They cannot afford to allow us to leave the EU and reap the same benefits. It would be particularly bad for ex-pats who have permanent residences in Spain.Incidentally, we have used the excellent and free Spanish medical system on several ocassions - I rate it above the NHS.

I cant see the Spanish getting uppity with the British tourist who brings 100's millions into their economy every year.................and scaremongering like that is only to be expected from EU lovers ;-)........tourists are not stupid and if the perceive they are being targeted unfairly then they'll stay away. I agree about the Spanish health system having spent half our holiday visiting my Dad in hospital, and then taking him down the doctors everyday for a week when he got out :-S............one thing I did notice was a big sign saying the staff are not required to speak English and its "your" responsibility to supply an interpreter at "your" cost ;-)

But the point is that most of Spain's tourist income will be unaffected. By tightening up on the long-termers they will be losing proportinately not very much but they will be annoying quite a few people. Plus the fact that if enforcement of such a rule is made a condition of continuing to get financial benefits (Spain is a net receiver) then they sure as hell will enforce such rules. Don't fool yourself, if we exit the EU then we retired motorhomers will not have the same freedoms to travel as we enjoy today. I don't expect a great deal of sympathy because most aren't in such a fortuante position as us - but don't think we won't be adversely affected. As for the "interpreter" rule in Spain - I think anyone who spends any length of time in a country ought to learn the language - if not, they can't complain if they have to pay.

 

Exiting the EU will not adversely affect travel within the majority of european countries....the Schengen agreement covers travel without border controls.

 

[nowtelse2do]

Dave225 - 2013-03-04 7:30 PM

 

nowtelse2do - 2013-03-04 7:17 PM

 

Dave225 - 2013-03-03 8:17 PM

 

The crazy thing is the Euro wil probably survive as there are enough countries supporting it to make it so, yes there will be pain and lots of it but it will survive. The Pound??????well I am not so sure. For sure the idiots in the B of E have no idea what to do.

 

Dave, most countries are taking out more than they are putting in, and all those countries in the eurozone are relying on one country to bail them out.

 

Dave

 

While I fully understand where you are coming from, I do not think I agree. Although like others I thought the euro was doomed, it seemingly has managed to survive umpteen disasters. I also fully accept that there may be more disasters to come, but I have a sneaky suspicion the euro will remain. As for 1 country bailing it out, again although i sympathise with the viewpoint, i do not believe it to be true. Although we are a big contributor to the EU we are still small fry compared to the total budget and although our removal would be a loss, it is not insurmountable.That does not mean to say I think we should stay in at all costs, the UK has to decide its own future, but the eurozone will not change that dramatically. I suspect there will be 'accomodations' along the way to allow certain countries to recover and some countries may even withdraw, but the core will stay. We have a European Central Bank but it does not fulfill that total purpose as yet. Once it does become the bank of all Europe then it will need a currency and the euro will be it. Being either in or out for the UK will be as good, or bad, as our own politicians make it, and for that reason I am not hopeful for our future.

 

I think the euro is doomed, it has survived up to now because of manipulation and the stubbornness of people who rely on the euro for their own means and ends.

 

Should have made it more clear, sorry. I wasn't referring to the UK as being the one country bailing the eurozone out, I was referring to Germany, they call the shots and with their elections later this year I anticipate that that the German people are probably as pi$$ed off supporting the eurozone as we are giving billions of aid to other countries when our own problems need facing.

 

I think most of the problems at the moment in this country stem from being in the EU so the sooner we are out the better as far as I'm concerned.

 

Dave

[John 47]

RogerC - 2013-03-06 1:50 PMExiting the EU will not adversely affect travel within the majority of european countries....the Schengen agreement covers travel without border controls.

That is not my point. I was specifically referring to the large number of Brits who over-winter in Spain in their motorhomes. They will have their freedoms limited as maximum stays of maybe a couple of months (and certainly no more than three) will be enforced. Interestingly, as soon as Cameron announced his intention to have a referendum on EU membership, the first thing one of my French friends down here said to me was "this is a big problem for you, no?". At least the French, German and Spanish motorhomers understand the hole that is being dug for us even if most British motorhomers are happy to turn a blind eye to it.

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-03-06 2:04 PM the first thing one of my French friends down here said to me was "this is a big problem for you, no?". .

 

Well he's right ;-)................"No" its not a problem :D

 

Just to add...........If we did vote to leave then I'd expect the whole pack of cards would collapse :D.......so we'd all be in the same boat ;-)

[John 47]

pelmetman - 2013-03-06 2:45 PM

 

John 47 - 2013-03-06 2:04 PM the first thing one of my French friends down here said to me was "this is a big problem for you, no?". .

 

Well he's right ;-)................"No" its not a problem :D

 

Just to add...........If we did vote to leave then I'd expect the whole pack of cards would collapse :D.......so we'd all be in the same boat ;-)

 

Fine, keep your head firmly buried in that sand if you wish - there are several thousand of us who ARE concerned.

 

Oh and it's a bit arrogant to assume that if the UK left the rest of them would just collapse. The EU is five times bigger than the UK and with a much more stable economic base at the moment (and that is despite the likes of Greece!). My money would most definitely go on betting that we have a harder time of it than the rest of them.