Triple 'A' Rating

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-03-06 3:17 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-03-06 2:45 PM

 

John 47 - 2013-03-06 2:04 PM the first thing one of my French friends down here said to me was "this is a big problem for you, no?". .

 

Well he's right ;-)................"No" its not a problem :D

 

Just to add...........If we did vote to leave then I'd expect the whole pack of cards would collapse :D.......so we'd all be in the same boat ;-)

 

Fine, keep your head firmly buried in that sand if you wish - there are several thousand of us who ARE concerned.

 

Oh and it's a bit arrogant to assume that if the UK left the rest of them would just collapse. The EU is five times bigger than the UK and with a much more stable economic base at the moment (and that is despite the likes of Greece!). My money would most definitely go on betting that we have a harder time of it than the rest of them.

 

Not arrogant ;-)................just a realist, if one of the EU meal tickets walks away........how long before your German friends decide they're not prepared carry on picking up the tab 8-).........as for our economy we'll bumble along as usual, which is enough for me :D.............unless we manage to sell...... then I'll be joining you as a member of the idle classes B-).....

[Guest peter]

Don't bother John. Ask him how we will be better off out of europe and he has no real answers, appart from flippant remarks. Which indicates he doesn't know of what he speaks. :D

[Guest pelmetman]

peter - 2013-03-06 4:50 PM

 

Don't bother John. Ask him how we will be better off out of europe and he has no real answers, appart from flippant remarks. Which indicates he doesn't know of what he speaks. :D

 

Well for a start we'd be able to control our borders ;-)..............so the low skill jobs could be filled by our own home grown layabouts *-)...............But if you and John47 are happy to carry on funding lost causes, then you know how to vote if we ever get the opportunity ;-)...................

[malc d]

nowtelse2do - 2013-03-06 2:00 PM

 

 

I think most of the problems at the moment in this country stem from being in the EU so the sooner we are out the better as far as I'm concerned.

 

Dave

 

 

I would suggest that there are two main problems in this country at the moment.

 

A social one, because we are a member of the EU and can't control the speed of immigration and a financial one caused by globalisation, not the Eu

 

 

 

[Guest peter]

I think you're just winding us up Dave. You can't be seriouly contemplating that we would be better off out on our own. The world has moved on since we joined..

[Guest pelmetman]

peter - 2013-03-06 5:20 PM

 

I think you're just winding us up Dave. You can't be seriouly contemplating that we would be better off out on our own. The world has moved on since we joined..

 

Yep :-D..............I believe there are much better ways of moving cash around Europe, other than through the greasy mitts of the EU ;-)..............I have little faith in a Common Agricultural Policy that lines the pockets of billionaires *-)

[nowtelse2do]

malc d - 2013-03-06 5:17 PM

 

nowtelse2do - 2013-03-06 2:00 PM

 

 

I think most of the problems at the moment in this country stem from being in the EU so the sooner we are out the better as far as I'm concerned.

 

Dave

 

 

I would suggest that there are two main problems in this country at the moment.

 

A social one, because we are a member of the EU and can't control the speed of immigration and a financial one caused by globalisation, not the Eu

 

 

 

Agreed malc, but every nation at the moment apart from India, China and some Arabic countries is subjected to the globalisation monetary problems and we can't do much about that, but we can do something about the EU. We give up part of our rebate on the understanding that the CAP would see a reduction in its allowance, well that didn't happen because of the backstabbing of two certain countries who's leaders were having nice cosy chat's with each other thinking of ways to stitch everybody else up. Whilst France was saying yes, behind cosed doors it was saying no, so they've already had a £2 billion rise out of us already.

 

People on here are saying we will be worse off if we leave, well I'd be willing to find out because its not getting better, and the trial run as been on for 40yrs.

 

Peter says we will be out on our own, well, we will be with about another 200 countries that are on their own so good company apart from a few bad apples.

 

Dave

[Dave225]

A few points for my tuppenceworth.

 

I doubt that leaving the Uk would make any difference to people wintering in Spain. Most countries in the world allow you stay as a tourist for 6 months in any 1 year so all that would happen is you get your passport stamped on entering the EU but need to get it stamped out again in 6 months, or you have to apply for residency. Of course you would lose the ability to carry unlimited?? supplies of alcohol and baccy back into the UK as they no doubt would re-introduce restrictions.

 

As for the financial gain or loss by leaving, noone seems to actually know. We would save on contributions but evidently would face more restrictions on exports. However as we are the biggest single market for the EU one could suggest we have a very strong negotiating position, or the EU countries would be in even deeper debt. As also more than 50% of our exports go outside the EU then we have incentives to improve these even more. Where we have weakness is in energy as the Governments of various colours have steadfastly refused to improve our energy supply situation except with windmills all over the place, so we will be dependent on gas coming through the EU to keep the lights on, not an ideal situation with France determined to screw us at every turn. The answer is to get fracking and to keep the coal fired stations, which of course the EU is stopping us doing.

 

The one area where we would gain is border control as we could then demand visas for all EU visitors and yes, we may have to do the same in return. We could however allow free access to those countries where we feel the citizens are less likely to screw us as we would be a sovereign nation again. We can also restrict access to benefits to those who have paid into the system. This is going to be the area of most concern to the people of the Uk once they see up to 29 million more having the ability to come here and claim next year. No, I am not suggesting all 29 million will come but a significant number will as they are the ones those countries would dearly like to get rid of. Even another 500000 as we have seen with the Poles will make a big impact on everything we do, and of course they will all be fighting for those jobs evidently we do not wish to do ourselves, but no body seems to know why. When I see hundreds applying for jobs with Costa i doubt it is due to a lack of desire to work, but when Polish Agencies have supply arrangements with big employers then it is difficult to get in if you are not Polish. Something that would not be tolerated in Poland for example.

 

The question that would concern me most of all is if we do not make a decision one way or the other then we end up with the worst of all worlds. The EU will never accept us unless we are 100% committed and I doubt that will,ever happen even if a referendum was positive, it will only be a small margin. , so possibly the best answer is to just leave and be done with it. Maybe once it has all settled down we can re look at things but i would even then think that an 'arrangement' that is beneficial to both would the be best rather than a full membership. Where we screwed up was not taking more control when we joined, but our politicians of all hues, have always been in awe of Brussels especially when they get tempted by '50 pieces of silver' as Clegg, Kinnock, Blair, and even Cameron did.

[John 47]

Dave225 - 2013-03-06 7:43 PM

 

A few points for my tuppenceworth.

 

I doubt that leaving the Uk would make any difference to people wintering in Spain. Most countries in the world allow you stay as a tourist for 6 months in any 1 year so all that would happen is you get your passport stamped on entering the EU but need to get it stamped out again in 6 months, or you have to apply for residency.

 

Not so - technically most people who overwinter in Spain are breaking the rules as it is but the authorities turn a blind eye to it. If we were to leave the EU then you can expect an enforcement of the rules like they have never been enforced before.

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-03-06 10:15 PM

 

Dave225 - 2013-03-06 7:43 PM

 

A few points for my tuppenceworth.

 

I doubt that leaving the Uk would make any difference to people wintering in Spain. Most countries in the world allow you stay as a tourist for 6 months in any 1 year so all that would happen is you get your passport stamped on entering the EU but need to get it stamped out again in 6 months, or you have to apply for residency.

 

Not so - technically most people who overwinter in Spain are breaking the rules as it is but the authorities turn a blind eye to it. If we were to leave the EU then you can expect an enforcement of the rules like they have never been enforced before.

 

So what your saying is that if we leave, a basket case economy like Spain will spend money hunting down Brits who are spending cash in their country 8-) ...............

 

Is that the best you EU lovers can come up with? (lol) (lol)

 

Well if they do I'll just cross the ditch to Morocco B-)

[John 47]

pelmetman - 2013-03-07 7:20 AM

 

 

So what your saying is that if we leave, a basket case economy like Spain will spend money hunting down Brits who are spending cash in their country 8-) ...............

 

Is that the best you EU lovers can come up with? (lol) (lol)

 

Well if they do I'll just cross the ditch to Morocco B-)

 

It is precisely because Spain's economy is weak that they are more likely to be susceptible to pressure from the paymasters to enforce the rules - and there is no doubt that Germany would want us punished for leaving. Besides, they could rake in the money by impounding vehicles and charging a fortune for them to be released.

 

I do, however, agree with you about going to Morocco - it is one of the options in my exit strategy! But don't tell onefoot that the country that would benefit most from our withdrawal is Muslim!

 

(lol) (lol)

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-03-07 8:38 AM

 

It is precisely because Spain's economy is weak that they are more likely to be susceptible to pressure from the paymasters to enforce the rules - and there is no doubt that Germany would want us punished for leaving.

 

I suppose they could always declare war :D..........Ve havf vays of making you stay Ja? >:-)

[Dave225]

John 47 - 2013-03-06 10:15 PM

 

Dave225 - 2013-03-06 7:43 PM

 

A few points for my tuppenceworth.

 

I doubt that leaving the Uk would make any difference to people wintering in Spain. Most countries in the world allow you stay as a tourist for 6 months in any 1 year so all that would happen is you get your passport stamped on entering the EU but need to get it stamped out again in 6 months, or you have to apply for residency.

 

Not so - technically most people who overwinter in Spain are breaking the rules as it is but the authorities turn a blind eye to it. If we were to leave the EU then you can expect an enforcement of the rules like they have never been enforced before.

 

Are you stating that winter campers are staying in Spain more than 6 months? If so, then they are breaking the Law and should declare themselves resident, and pay taxes in Spain. If it is less than 6 months then they are legal tourists. Most of the ones I know stay from October to March, so stay within the rules. As for turning a blind eye, I accept that the Police are not trawling the campsites checking passports but the site owners do keep registers and so it is easy to check your time. The authorities are checking more on current residents who have not been paying their full dues, so it is likely that tourists will come next. After all we do the same here although there are times I do wonder if any results appear.

[John 47]

Dave225 - 2013-03-07 8:28 PM

 

John 47 - 2013-03-06 10:15 PM

 

Dave225 - 2013-03-06 7:43 PM

 

A few points for my tuppenceworth.

 

I doubt that leaving the Uk would make any difference to people wintering in Spain. Most countries in the world allow you stay as a tourist for 6 months in any 1 year so all that would happen is you get your passport stamped on entering the EU but need to get it stamped out again in 6 months, or you have to apply for residency.

 

Not so - technically most people who overwinter in Spain are breaking the rules as it is but the authorities turn a blind eye to it. If we were to leave the EU then you can expect an enforcement of the rules like they have never been enforced before.

 

Are you stating that winter campers are staying in Spain more than 6 months? If so, then they are breaking the Law and should declare themselves resident, and pay taxes in Spain. If it is less than 6 months then they are legal tourists. Most of the ones I know stay from October to March, so stay within the rules. As for turning a blind eye, I accept that the Police are not trawling the campsites checking passports but the site owners do keep registers and so it is easy to check your time. The authorities are checking more on current residents who have not been paying their full dues, so it is likely that tourists will come next. After all we do the same here although there are times I do wonder if any results appear.

 

I am talking primarily about what would happen if we leave the EU. According to the Schengen agreement, non-EU citizens are limited to stays of 90 days (no retrun within 90 days). All visitors (including from within the EU) are supposed to register with the police if they stay more than 90 days at present (although this rule is not enforced); if we leave the EU then you can be sure that it will be enforced - to the detriment of Brits who currently over-winter in Spain.

[Guest pelmetman]

John 47 - 2013-03-07 9:36 PM

 

I am talking primarily about what would happen if we leave the EU. According to the Schengen agreement, non-EU citizens are limited to stays of 90 days (no retrun within 90 days). All visitors (including from within the EU) are supposed to register with the police if they stay more than 90 days at present (although this rule is not enforced); if we leave the EU then you can be sure that it will be enforced - to the detriment of Brits who currently over-winter in Spain.

 

That's our long terming itinerary sorted ;-)..............September, October "France".....November, December, "Spain"...... January, February "Morocco"......March, April "Portugal".....May Northern "Spain"......June "France".....July, August Blighty B-).........

 

So 90 days......... no problem :D

 

and our next problem is? >:-)

[malc d]

My response to the triple A rating reduction would be to downgrade the rating agencies to a redundancy/ dole queue status.

 

 

 

;-)

[John 47]

pelmetman - 2013-03-08 8:51 AM

 

John 47 - 2013-03-07 9:36 PM

 

I am talking primarily about what would happen if we leave the EU. According to the Schengen agreement, non-EU citizens are limited to stays of 90 days (no retrun within 90 days). All visitors (including from within the EU) are supposed to register with the police if they stay more than 90 days at present (although this rule is not enforced); if we leave the EU then you can be sure that it will be enforced - to the detriment of Brits who currently over-winter in Spain.

 

That's our long terming itinerary sorted ;-)..............September, October "France".....November, December, "Spain"...... January, February "Morocco"......March, April "Portugal".....May Northern "Spain"......June "France".....July, August Blighty B-).........

 

So 90 days......... no problem :D

 

and our next problem is? >:-)

 

Sounds like a good trip but beware - you may meet me along the way!! :-D

 

I'd still rather have the choice to do that or not, though - and many Brits have fixed properties down here, so their options are much more limited. As I said earlier, I'm not expecting sympathy because ours is a problem that many people would love to have. However, it does strike me as odd that some of the most ardent anti-EU feeling is expressed by the ex-pat-published English language newspapers around here - talk about turkeys voting for Xmas!

[nowtelse2do]

pelmetman - 2013-03-08 8:51 AM

 

That's our long terming itinerary sorted ;-)..............September, October "France".....November, December, "Spain"...... January, February "Morocco"......March, April "Portugal".....May Northern "Spain"......June "France".....July, August Blighty B-)......

 

and our next problem is? >:-)

 

Making sure Horace is taxed insured and mot'd in July & August and seeing if your house is insured for 10 months while your away.........problems...problems... *-) :D

 

Dave

[Guest pelmetman]

nowtelse2do - 2013-03-08 1:55 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-03-08 8:51 AM

 

That's our long terming itinerary sorted ;-)..............September, October "France".....November, December, "Spain"...... January, February "Morocco"......March, April "Portugal".....May Northern "Spain"......June "France".....July, August Blighty B-)......

 

and our next problem is? >:-)

 

Making sure Horace is taxed insured and mot'd in July & August and seeing if your house is insured for 10 months while your away.........problems...problems... *-) :D

 

Dave

 

What house? :D.............that's one of the reason for selling up is so we don't have that hassle........and I've already managed to move Horace's annual MOT/service to July ;-)......we tend not to go away in August if we can help it........tooooo expensive and toooo many sprogs 8-)

[nowtelse2do]

pelmetman - 2013-03-08 2:02 PM

 

nowtelse2do - 2013-03-08 1:55 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-03-08 8:51 AM

 

That's our long terming itinerary sorted ;-)..............September, October "France".....November, December, "Spain"...... January, February "Morocco"......March, April "Portugal".....May Northern "Spain"......June "France".....July, August Blighty B-)......

 

and our next problem is? >:-)

 

Making sure Horace is taxed insured and mot'd in July & August and seeing if your house is insured for 10 months while your away.........problems...problems... *-) :D

 

Dave

 

What house? :D.............that's one of the reason for selling up is so we don't have that hassle........and I've already managed to move Horace's annual MOT/service to July ;-)......we tend not to go away in August if we can help it........tooooo expensive and toooo many sprogs 8-)

 

OK..!! I get it.........no fixed abode = Gypsies...East Europeans.....Benefit Scroungers. Which is it? *-) :D :D

 

Dave

[Guest pelmetman]

nowtelse2do - 2013-03-08 2:52 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-03-08 2:02 PM

 

nowtelse2do - 2013-03-08 1:55 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-03-08 8:51 AM

 

That's our long terming itinerary sorted ;-)..............September, October "France".....November, December, "Spain"...... January, February "Morocco"......March, April "Portugal".....May Northern "Spain"......June "France".....July, August Blighty B-)......

 

and our next problem is? >:-)

 

Making sure Horace is taxed insured and mot'd in July & August and seeing if your house is insured for 10 months while your away.........problems...problems... *-) :D

 

Dave

 

What house? :D.............that's one of the reason for selling up is so we don't have that hassle........and I've already managed to move Horace's annual MOT/service to July ;-)......we tend not to go away in August if we can help it........tooooo expensive and toooo many sprogs 8-)

 

OK..!! I get it.........no fixed abode = Gypsies...East Europeans.....Benefit Scroungers. Which is it? *-) :D :D

 

Dave

 

Western European travelers.......sponger = retired toyboy living off his wife's pension B-).......and in the UK sponging....Ooop's I mean staying with friends and family :D.............we class friends as anyone with a large drive and free facilities ;-).................You must have a large drive with all those motors of yours Dave? >:-)

[nowtelse2do]

pelmetman - 2013-03-08 3:08 PM

 

.You must have a large drive with all those motors of yours Dave? >:-)

 

Mmmm..!!..............Pity its full... :-> (lol)

 

Dave

 

[RogerC]

John 47 - 2013-03-06 10:15 PM

Dave225 - 2013-03-06 7:43 PMA few points for my tuppenceworth.I doubt that leaving the Uk would make any difference to people wintering in Spain. Most countries in the world allow you stay as a tourist for 6 months in any 1 year so all that would happen is you get your passport stamped on entering the EU but need to get it stamped out again in 6 months, or you have to apply for residency.

Not so - technically most people who overwinter in Spain are breaking the rules as it is but the authorities turn a blind eye to it. If we were to leave the EU then you can expect an enforcement of the rules like they have never been enforced before.

 

The current rules under 'Schengen'/EU terms are no additional documentation/permit required for up to 90 days in 6 months.  Beyond 90 days a temporary residents permit is required.

 

[Dave225]

RogerC - 2013-03-08 4:21 PM

John 47 - 2013-03-06 10:15 PM

Dave225 - 2013-03-06 7:43 PMA few points for my tuppenceworth.I doubt that leaving the Uk would make any difference to people wintering in Spain. Most countries in the world allow you stay as a tourist for 6 months in any 1 year so all that would happen is you get your passport stamped on entering the EU but need to get it stamped out again in 6 months, or you have to apply for residency.

Not so - technically most people who overwinter in Spain are breaking the rules as it is but the authorities turn a blind eye to it. If we were to leave the EU then you can expect an enforcement of the rules like they have never been enforced before.

 

The current rules under 'Schengen'/EU terms are no additional documentation/permit required for up to 90 days in 6 months.  Beyond 90 days a temporary residents permit is required.

However there is a difference between 'residency' and 'fiscal residency' which applies only if you stay longer than 183 days. So, yes I guess they could decide to kick a tourist out after 90 days but they cannot tax that person unless they stay more than 183 days. The other thing is do you get 'residency' through the register of the campsite which I am sure go to the Police or appropriate authorities on a regular basis. After all the rules state that you should get residency after 90 days, not that it is not available.I do accept that probably like many EU rules there is a great degree of 'interpretation' taking place. I also doubt the Spanish will kill their tourist income by starting to get aggressive on this, it will be residents or those who do not declare they are residents with homes they will go for as they should be paying taxes.I found the following while browsing which seems to suggest that if we leave the EU we would then get a full 6 months. Also why not come home for Christmas and break the trip?? ""The Spanish RulesCitizens Of The EUCitizens of the EU, in principle, should be able to move and stay freely, without any limitations within the territory of the EU and EES. As a matter of fact, not only citizens, but anyone with a residence permit in any of these countries. Otherwise, the maximum period a tourist can stay on Spanish territory is 3 months (6 if you come from overseas), within each 6 months period.This requirement is very much a 'paper tiger', since one can now move within the "Schengen-territory" from Spain and up to Scandinavia without a passport and without anyone asking for it.""Fortunately, we only stay up to 80 days each trip so should not fall foul of any rigid rule makers.

[John 47]

RogerC - 2013-03-08 4:21 PM

John 47 - 2013-03-06 10:15 PM

Dave225 - 2013-03-06 7:43 PMA few points for my tuppenceworth.I doubt that leaving the Uk would make any difference to people wintering in Spain. Most countries in the world allow you stay as a tourist for 6 months in any 1 year so all that would happen is you get your passport stamped on entering the EU but need to get it stamped out again in 6 months, or you have to apply for residency.

Not so - technically most people who overwinter in Spain are breaking the rules as it is but the authorities turn a blind eye to it. If we were to leave the EU then you can expect an enforcement of the rules like they have never been enforced before.

 

The current rules under 'Schengen'/EU terms are no additional documentation/permit required for up to 90 days in 6 months.  Beyond 90 days a temporary residents permit is required.

I believe that is what I said - and how many overwintering Brits get the temporary residents permit, I wonder?