Brian Kirby Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-03-03 11:04 PM Brian Kirby - 2013-03-03 9:09 PM All I'd ask Lenny, is whether he bought his van knowing how little payload it actually had, because I'm afraid I wouldn't have. It is my first Motorhome but I did get it nearly right. Spending that much of my hard earned cash I did research it fairly well. Must admit I fail to understand anyone spending 50 grand of their own money not doing the research but maybe because it's in my nature to investigate anything I'm doing or buying. ................................ In retrospect, Lenny, my question probably seemed somewhat critical. Apologies if it did, it was a genuine question, though it could have been phrased better! :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-03-04 6:30 PM lennyhb - 2013-03-03 11:04 PM Brian Kirby - 2013-03-03 9:09 PM All I'd ask Lenny, is whether he bought his van knowing how little payload it actually had, because I'm afraid I wouldn't have. It is my first Motorhome but I did get it nearly right. Spending that much of my hard earned cash I did research it fairly well. Must admit I fail to understand anyone spending 50 grand of their own money not doing the research but maybe because it's in my nature to investigate anything I'm doing or buying. ................................ In retrospect, Lenny, my question probably seemed somewhat critical. Apologies if it did, it was a genuine question, though it could have been phrased better! :$ Yeh but...your expectations of a payload within 3500kg, are a tad unrealistic. Want a laugh, look at the autotrail calculator :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-03-04 6:30 PM In retrospect, Lenny, my question probably seemed somewhat critical. Apologies if it did, it was a genuine question, though it could have been phrased better! :$ No apologies needed Brian a fair question. Too much apathy out there regarding payload friends of my wife's changed from tuggers a few years ago and still drag all the old tugger gear around with them. When I ask what their payload was & how they got away with carrying all that gear I was met with a blank expression and "what's payload?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Robinhood - 2013-03-03 10:10 PM TBH, I've historically found Hymer to be much better at declaring weights than most, though maybe the current practice is not quite as good. They are, however, relatively "up-front" about the basis of Exsis payloads, as evidenced by the extract from their current brochure, shown below. In addition, for many years the additional weights of all factory options have been shown in the price list. (though unfortunately, and probably for all the much-debated reasons, this is not usually available in English, so you have to download one of the other languages to get the full gen)............................... I agree that Hymer tend to be very good at declaring the weights of options, and have held them up as exemplars in the past. Part of the problem is the sheer number of options available, which on the one hand is good, but it does make keeping a record of the damage one is infliction on payload essential! On the question of priced options, the latest Hymer I have (1/7/12) actually includes the pricing as well, so that, too, is a welcome improvement. I just get ratty when manufacturers quote EN 1646-2 for MIRO, and then declare only 20L fresh water. Last time I read 1646-2 it said gas, water, and fuel reservoirs at 90% full. It is not mandatory, but those quoting it should stick to it, flawed as it is. That 90% is still daft, as it is very difficult in most cases to know how much actually is on board, so "full" would have been far more helpful to buyers. And of course quoting only one gas cylinder what the locker takes two (nice, lightweight German ones as well, for vans made in Germany and sold throughout Europe where aluminium cylinders are not the rule) Then there is that little gem that allows +/- 5% on unladen weight, where 5% of 3 tonnes is 150kg, and that can come off your payload as well if the tolerance is used. While I'm having a moan, how about declaring the actual axle loads in unladen (or MIRO) condition? Ever tried asking a dealer what they are? They're all stated (or should be) in the CoC for each van as produced, so manufacturers know their values. You'd think you'd asked for a potted definition of special relativity! I mean, this is their day job, it is what they do day in, day out. Strewth! :-D I just think it is is very unfair on the first time buyer, and lays extremely expensive traps for the uninitiated, many of whom have never had to consider unladen weight, MIRO, MAM, payloads, or tolerances. The dealer should, of course, provide the technical guidance, but will s/he? Ho hum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-03-04 6:55 PM I just think it is is very unfair on the first time buyer, and lays extremely expensive traps for the uninitiated, many of whom have never had to consider unladen weight, MIRO, MAM, payloads, or tolerances. The dealer should, of course, provide the technical guidance, but will s/he? Ho hum! I can't disagree with most of that, Brian. ....and with the caveat that I may be beginning to sound like the Judge, then if German magazines such as ProMobil could publish all-up weights, including front and rear axle weights, in running order for all tested vans as far back as 1998 (or possibly earlier - and in any case long before type-approval came in) it defeats me that MMM (other UK motorcaravan magazines are available) cannot do the same now. I acknowledge that there may be some short-term self-interest in not doing so, given the concerns that have been voiced about some 'vans from prominent advertisers, but surely, it is in the long-term interests of all parties to have such things out in the open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-03-04 8:32 AM The exsis is a light structure probably only one door with good reason, strength? Hardly worth having to go for expensive factory order to obtain one, most A class have this one door arrangement .Passenger surely either use drivers door or leisure door as rear passengers have to...would never be on my shopping list as would only consider a GRP van.................. Now Eddie! When I say one door, I mean one door, not two! :-) How can the passenger use either drivers door or leisure door when there is only a leisure door? :-) The driver's door (LHD) is an otional extra. The habitation door is the standard, single door, and on RHD A class vans made outside UK is on the UK offside. If one specifies a driver's door it is on the UK nearside (passenger's side), so on RHD vans it is the driver who has to exit via the habitation door. Seems all wrong to me. I know it is amazing what folk will do when in fear of their lives, but bunking out of the windows to evacuate following a shunt, because the habitation door can't be opened, just seems dodgy in the extreme to me! Surely, two ways out should be basic? But, we digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Have previously explained why I think a factory order bonkers. The first 2 of 222 on mobile.de have a drivers door. in an accident the whole front will probably pop out anyway:D p Surely a relativity independent review more worthwhile. http://www.reisemobil-international.de/test-und-service/?include=hersteller&hersteller=Hymer You get the axle loads and a lot more factual information by paying 80 cents for a PDF review on a selection of vans. regards the + - 5% if its a modern build the quoted weights a hell of a lot more reliable "This means that a team of six testers - studied interior, functional usefulness and practicality of the motorhome to the test - each an expert in his field. Expert Test team includes a body shop foreman, a master carpenter, a specialist in gas and water systems, a master electrician and a motorhome experienced housewife. The round finished with an editor. All findings and measurements of six professionals are then in issue, clearly presented and easy to understand - on ten pages. And that makes a unique 3D illustration the particular motorhome transparent. Are professional test and 3D sectional drawing it only REISEMOBIL INTERNATIONAL. And now as an archive service for you to download - each month a professional test" you can translate using auto translator.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-03-04 5:20 PM Chris, I have just checked the Hymer price list the drivers door is available on it's own for 1520€ Definitely not on the UK dealer supplied price list that I have here nor any detail on the UK website. lennyhb - 2013-03-04 5:20 PM I agree about the aircon especially as the Exsis is a down market van. Ouch! Well, I suppose it's only the A-Class version of the Tramp so obviously won't be persuing this one now ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Sorry Chris I only ever look at the German site as the UK version does not have all the models & I wouldn't buy a Hymer in the UK. Yes the Exsis is an A class version of the Tramp CL which is the down market model even the Premium 50 is only a CL with some extras. They stopped producing the upmarket SL Tramps a couple of years ago. That's my problem I like the Exsis but my van is a special edition SL Tramp a very upmarket SL, & prices have risen so much over the last few years B Class SL's now start at 100,000€ you could have got one for 60,000€ 5 years ago. Looks like Hymer made the right decision with Exsis on the Fiat, European dealers are selling them by the bucket load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawcara Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I just looked on http://www.reisemobil-international.de to see the models of Carthago that they were reviewing. However, I can't see it. Do they have another name or is it that they have not reviewed them? On another point, what do people think of the new Hobby's on the Renault chassis, the ones that look like a van but are not. Think one based on a Fiat chassis was reviewed in a recent MMM. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Hawcara - 2013-03-04 8:30 PM I just looked on http://www.reisemobil-international.de to see the models of Carthago that they were reviewing. However, I can't see it. Do they have another name or is it that they have not reviewed them? On another point, what do people think of the new Hobby's on the Renault chassis, the ones that look like a van but are not. Think one based on a Fiat chassis was reviewed in a recent MMM. :-D Your right there are no reviews under Cathargo name..... here is the index http://www.reisemobil-international.de/test-und-service/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Premier Motorhomes are now a Carthago agent and have a C-Router in stock at £64,000 IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hawcara - 2013-03-04 8:30 PM I just looked on http://www.reisemobil-international.de to see the models of Carthago that they were reviewing. However, I can't see it. Do they have another name or is it that they have not reviewed them? On another point, what do people think of the new Hobby's on the Renault chassis, the ones that look like a van but are not. Think one based on a Fiat chassis was reviewed in a recent MMM. :-D Carthago is one of the makes in the index JudgeMental provided a link to. http://www.reisemobil-international.de/test-und-service/?include=hersteller&hersteller=Carthago MMM reported on a Fiat-based Hobby in the February 2013 issue. It appears from Hobby's 2013 brochure that tandem rear-axle designs have been dropped and just three ranges - Premium Van (Renault), Premium Drive (Fiat) and Siesta (Ford) - will be available. There's a downloadable 72-page brochure if you want more details. My wife and I looked at a Premium Van at the NEC and both of us loathed the interior treatment. However, that doesn't mean Hobby has got it wrong and other people may well think exactly the opposite. The Renault-based models have a very long wheelbase (4.33m) which is bound to affect the turning-circle. Asking prices don't seem too outrageous. What sort of feedback are you looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 bolero boy - 2013-03-05 8:25 AM Premier Motorhomes are now a Carthago agent and have a C-Router in stock at £64,000 IIRC. Do you mean "Premier Motorhomes" or "Premium Motorhomes" as both are Carthago agents? The former is currently advertising a 2012 Carthago C-Tourer T 48F35, but the quoted price is £71,995 The latter is advertising a Carthago C-Tourer T142QB for £65,000, but the vehicle is LHD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 bolero boy - 2013-03-05 8:25 AM Premier Motorhomes are now a Carthago agent and have a C-Router in stock at £64,000 IIRC. There is a c-tourer T 142 QB in Germany for approx £52K before haggling..... Clever layout with a traverse bed that stops short of wall allowing one to shuffle out of bed without climbing over each other. Payback being only one garage door. But it addresses the main dislike for this very practical layout, the van is not narrow though.... Had a further look at stock hymer exsis in Germany, the majority tend to have a drivers door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Sorry, Derek, it was the latter - grey cells not working and using phone so couldnt be bothered to check :$ Eddie, yes most Exsis with door, no prob as I would have one. As I said, my only beef was that I could not spec this without everything else in the pack. No worries tho. Carthago very well made, i did look at one in mainland dealers and prices better. The QB version, as here, was at the NEC (tho might have been in A-Class trim) and the bed was very high (due to massive garage) and a bit tight to get around despite the press blurb. Having said that, not insurmountable issues and a really well screwed together van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-03-05 9:25 AM There is a c-tourer T 142 QB in Germany for approx £52K before haggling..... Clever layout with a traverse bed that stops short of wall allowing one to shuffle out of bed without climbing over each other. Payback being only one garage door. But it addresses the main dislike for this very practical layout, the van is not narrow though.... Not surprising it's only 52k with that damage to the roof right by the rear panel joint. I do like the layout and it's not that wide only 2.27m my van is 2.35m., but it's not an A class which is what this thread is about. Edit: I see they do the same layout in A Class same model number - confusing, but none at that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-03-05 10:50 AM JudgeMental - 2013-03-05 9:25 AM There is a c-tourer T 142 QB in Germany for approx £52K before haggling..... Clever layout with a traverse bed that stops short of wall allowing one to shuffle out of bed without climbing over each other. Payback being only one garage door. But it addresses the main dislike for this very practical layout, the van is not narrow though.... Not surprising it's only 52k with that damage to the roof right by the rear panel joint. I do like the layout and it's not that wide only 2.27m my van is 2.35m., but it's not an A class which is what this thread is about. Edit: I see they do the same layout in A Class same model number - confusing, but none at that price. Explains why cheaper then the rest I quess..I cant see anything though... The A class are about 10K more expensive then the CB Not sure how its all about A class, as Charlie never shared which model van caught his fancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I was looking at this one a couple of close ups of damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-03-05 11:59 AM I was looking at this one a couple of close ups of damage. AH! OK, not the same van..One I was talking about was 52K in english monies, before crying and squeezing a deal :D I would like to aim at about 50'ish K on the road here. Not a bad days work £15000'ish for driving a van from Germany....In the wrong business! When looking on mobile I click the "new" banner. and from build year 2012 saying that, I would think you could get that damage sorted here for maybe 2K? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-03-05 1:22 PM ...I would think you could get that damage sorted here for maybe 2K? :-D Better hope so - it's a helluva long way to the factory in Slovenia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Err! Carthago are in Aulendorf Germany (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-03-05 6:42 PM Err! Carthago are in Aulendorf Germany (lol) The one you linked to is not new...But if I wanted one I would ask the seller for some proper photos including the roof, email Peter Ayles of motorhome coachcraft for an estimate..Armed with the info, do the math and try a silly offer :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Lenny, I think Derek is thinking of Adria, a slighly different animal altogether. But still very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 just pointing out his error Peter :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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