Guest JudgeMental Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 HWO - 2013-02-27 5:45 PM JudgeMental - 2013-02-26 8:37 PM Patricia - 2013-02-26 8:26 PM HWO - 2013-02-26 5:02 PM From what little I know about it,it is a great deal of hassle and expense for a non-grandad licence holder to upgrade to the over 3.5ton licence. The only realistic option is to stick to the 3.5 limit. HWO I am sure you are right. I believe my grandson-in-law had to pay £1500+ to gain his licence to drive over the 3.5 limit and it was a great hassle too. Think you lot are getting confused with requirements of a commercial licence Think you will find that is exactly what you need to get. you don't just go for the motorhome upgrade. HWO This is a young man..not in his dotage like many on here All he has to do is have a D4 medical. At GP or specific agency. You download the form and take ti GP, it is a simple set of tests . eye sight, blood pressure, check for diabeties etc....A D4 medical is about 40-50 pounds and if van upgrade a paper exercise, snd it should be as its a Maci chassis, all should be possible under £300.........Hardly frightening Just read Derek's post, any paper upgrade I have seen quoted on here has been around £220 not sure where a £1500 figure comes from. Best call SV Tech to check. My GP charges £50 (Just checked for clarity) http://www.motorhomeinfo.co.uk/driving-licences/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-02-28 8:42 AM This is a young man..not in his dotage like many on here All he has to do is have a D4 medical. At GP or specific agency. You download the form and take ti GP, it is a simple set of tests . eye sight, blood pressure, check for diabeties etc....A D4 medical is about 40-50 pounds and if van upgrade a paper exercise, snd it should be as its a Maci chassis, all should be possible under £300.........Hardly frightening My GP charges £50 (Just checked for clarity) You've taken no account of the costs involved in Kiernen and (presumably) his wife training and passing the driving-test that would permit them to legally drive a vehicle with a MTPLM over 3500kg. This website comprehensively summarises the UK driving-licence regulations: http://www.drivex.co.uk/driving-licence-info/ To obtain a C1 entitlement (Vehicles with a MTPLM of between 3500kg and 7500kg) the following statement is made: "Drivers who passed their car test after 1 January 1997 will have to meet higher medical standards, obtain a Category C1 Provisional Licence and then pass both theory and practical C1 driving tests to gain category C1." Kiernen said earlier: "...I had seen a posts mentioning SV Tech - the problem here is it would cost me a small fortune, as I'd then have to pay for those upgrades and also 2 new licenses to allow me to drive it...I really hope I can load all that is needed with current plate..." Patricia later mentioned £1500+ being required for a relative to gain an 'over-3500kg-vehicle' driving licence entitlement and I subsequently suggested this was a realistic estimate of the cost involved. Now, I know it's tough reading long threads, but it's logical that Kiernen (who has a personal interest in this) will have carefully researched the cost of uprating his wife's and his own driving-licence to Category C1 and established that this will be expensive (2 x £1500 = £3000). Patricia has mentioned £1500 based on personal knowledge and I (who know absolutely everything!) have suggested that £1500 is a reasonable estimate. Wouldn't you think that, bearing those factors in mind, it's likely that the cost of going from a B entitlement to C1 has a fair chance of being a helluva lot more complicated and expensive that just passing a £40-£50 medical examination. In any case, if there's doubt about what's involved in obtaining a Category C1 entitlement, you just need to look on-line at the websites of companies offering driver training to appreciate what's required and what the costs are likely to be. For example: http://www.selectdrivertraining.co.uk/page%208.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMacRacing Posted March 2, 2013 Author Share Posted March 2, 2013 Thanks to all once again for the very useful and concise information. I am yet to have the weigh in...turns out they are closed over weekend! As mentioned, yes I race a mini se7en in Dunlop Mini Se7en Challenge - here's a few links if interested: In car footage - http://www.youtube.com/user/BigMacRacing Facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/bigmacracing Twitter - Website - http://www.bigmacracing.co.uk/ Mini7 Club website - http://www.mini7.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Derek Uzzell - 2013-02-28 9:31 AM JudgeMental - 2013-02-28 8:42 AM This is a young man..not in his dotage like many on here All he has to do is have a D4 medical. At GP or specific agency. You download the form and take ti GP, it is a simple set of tests . eye sight, blood pressure, check for diabeties etc....A D4 medical is about 40-50 pounds and if van upgrade a paper exercise, snd it should be as its a Maci chassis, all should be possible under £300.........Hardly frightening My GP charges £50 (Just checked for clarity) You've taken no account of the costs involved in Kiernen and (presumably) his wife training and passing the driving-test that would permit them to legally drive a vehicle with a MTPLM over 3500kg. l if you had bothered to read link I posted you would have seen this. "Category C1 With this category you can drive vehicles with a MAM over 3500kg but less than 7500kg with a trailer no heavier than 750kg. To tow a heavier trailer you'll need category C1+E. Note: A recent European Directive will relax the cost and complexity of this C1 test for motorhomers, in recognition of the fact theirs is a private vehicle for leisure use. This 'Code 97' change will for example exclude driver hours and tachograph rules; it will be implemented before December 2013". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-03-02 1:25 PM Derek Uzzell - 2013-02-28 9:31 AM JudgeMental - 2013-02-28 8:42 AM This is a young man..not in his dotage like many on here All he has to do is have a D4 medical. At GP or specific agency. You download the form and take ti GP, it is a simple set of tests . eye sight, blood pressure, check for diabeties etc....A D4 medical is about 40-50 pounds and if van upgrade a paper exercise, snd it should be as its a Maci chassis, all should be possible under £300.........Hardly frightening My GP charges £50 (Just checked for clarity) You've taken no account of the costs involved in Kiernen and (presumably) his wife training and passing the driving-test that would permit them to legally drive a vehicle with a MTPLM over 3500kg. l if you had bothered to read link I posted you would have seen this. "Category C1 With this category you can drive vehicles with a MAM over 3500kg but less than 7500kg with a trailer no heavier than 750kg. To tow a heavier trailer you'll need category C1+E. Note: A recent European Directive will relax the cost and complexity of this C1 test for motorhomers, in recognition of the fact theirs is a private vehicle for leisure use. This 'Code 97' change will for example exclude driver hours and tachograph rules; it will be implemented before December 2013". If you had bothered to read the relevant section of the EU Directive, you'd have appreciated that the relaxation of the C1 rules will not remove the need for a driving test in order to move from the Category B entitlement to C1 - it will just make the test for 'non-professional' drivers simpler. How this will be done is not defined and no such simpler test is currently available in the UK. Even were a simpler C1 driving test to be introduced in the UK (at the end of this year say) that won't help Kiernen at present, as it's plain from the very beginning of this thread that he wishes to drive his motorhome throughout 2012. At present (and for an unknown future period) obtaining a C1 licence entitlement doesn't just require a £40-£50 medical examination (which is what you claimed), but also demands taking tests and (almost certainly) professional training. Tests and training aren't cheap, as Kiernen is clearly aware of and as Patricia and I highlighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 I think I'm getting mixed up with my situation, as I lost my C1 (C is HGV) when I went on Insulin but can get it back with just the yearly D4 medical. I got my new 3 year licence the other week and it had details regards application.But it plainly daft for a 3850kg motorhome driver to need 40 hrs of instructions in a 40 ton artic...and the law is changing. Surely Mac is stuffed anyway as a race car even a small one and trailer can hardly be 750kg? I still think Mac will have to wing it and drive camper separately for now...as even if his camper can tow 2000kg can he drive it on his licence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-03-02 4:19 PM ...Surely Mac is stuffed anyway as a race car even a small one and trailer can hardly be 750kg? I still think Mac will have to wing it and drive camper separately for now...as even if his camper can tow 2000kg can he drive it on his licence. If you revisit the original posting you'll see that Kiernen was aware that his basic Catergory "B" licence entitlement would prevent him legally using his motorhome to tow his race-car on a trailer. He says: "I passed my driving test in '99 so I unfortunately do not have "grandfather rights" and therefore am limited to 3500KG and max of 750KG trailer....or if trailer is over 750KG, then total max of 3500KG. The trailer will be over 750KG and I believe the max towing weight for this vehicle is 1200KG according to specs I found on web - be good to confirm for sure? If I am correct and the plate suggests max is 3500KG, then all I will need to do is take the B+E trailer test to allow me to tow greater than 750KG." There's no evidence that the maximum towing weight of Kiernen's motorhome is 1200kg, and plenty of evidence that it's 2000kg. A Mini 7 will weigh around 700kg, so the car + trailer shouldn't weigh more than 1100kg. - well within the motorhome's towing capacity. In my summary posting of 28 February 2013 8:14 AM I said: "Kieren has a Category B driving-licence entitlement and, as he intends to tow his race-car (presumably still a Mini Se7en for 2013) with the motorhome, he will need to upgrade his licence to Category B+E, a relatively inexpensive process. http://tinyurl.com/ccoqbgm " As you rightly say, until Kiernen (and his wife presumably) can pass the test necessary for the B+E entitlement he cannot legally drive the motorhome with the car+trailer behind. But, as he's plainly managed to compete with the car in previous seasons, I guess he'll employ whatever arrangements he used in the past to get the car to meetings until he's gained the B+E entitlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWO Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Derek Uzzell - 2013-03-02 6:41 PM "I passed my driving test in '99 so I unfortunately do not have "grandfather rights" and therefore am limited to 3500KG and max of 750KG trailer....or if trailer is over 750KG, then total max of 3500KG. . A Mini 7 will weigh around 700kg, so the car + trailer shouldn't weigh more than 1100kg. - well within the motorhome's towing capacity. Just tow the Mini on an 'A' frame, as long as the race is not in Spain he will be OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 HWO - 2013-03-02 9:47 PM Derek Uzzell - 2013-03-02 6:41 PM "I passed my driving test in '99 so I unfortunately do not have "grandfather rights" and therefore am limited to 3500KG and max of 750KG trailer....or if trailer is over 750KG, then total max of 3500KG. . A Mini 7 will weigh around 700kg, so the car + trailer shouldn't weigh more than 1100kg. - well within the motorhome's towing capacity. Just tow the Mini on an 'A' frame, as long as the race is not in Spain he will be OK This is a competition vehicle and won't be taxed or insured for road use and (very likely) won't be technically 'road legal'. With A-frame car-towing continuing to be a legal grey area in the UK, even if the police don't seem interested in motorcaravanners A-frame towing 'conventional' small cars, I wouldn't want to try my luck A-frame towing what is clearly a racing car and attempting the "It's actually a trailer not a car" defence. There have certainly been reports of people being prosecuted for towing untaxed/uninsured track-day cars with a dolly or 'recovery type' A-frame. If you are suggesting that A-frame towing his race-car would avoid Kiernen having to uprate his Category B licence to Category B+E because I mentioned "around 700kg" as the weight of a Mini 7, that's unlikely to be practicable. 700kg was an educated guess on my part and Kiernen's vehicle may well weigh more. It's likely that he'll want to transport tools and spare parts to race meetings and, if he carried these within the race-car on an A-frame that would significantly increase its weight. Also, as the race-car has brakes, those brakes would need to operate when the car was A-frame towed. What began as a lightweight race-car complying with Mini 7 regulations, would end up with a hefty framework somehow attached to its front to connect to the A-frame and modifications to operate the brakes when on tow. Might be interesting to see what race scrutineers would make of that! In any case, why should Kiernen want to use an A-frame? As he has been competing in Mini 7 events for a number of seasons, it's logical to assume he'll already have a trailer (or have access to a trailer) to transport the car on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMacRacing Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share Posted March 3, 2013 Just to confirm, yes it will have to go on a trailer due to the nature of the beast :-) I'll update once I have managed to visit the weighbridge... Regards, Kieren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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