2 Berth Motorhomes

[moline1909]

My wife and I currently own a caravan and intend to purchase an A class campervan (new or nearly new) We can digest all the technical matters, engines, double floor etc, however when it comes to layout, several models tick all our boxes( island bed type) with one exception namely 2 berths. We do not want a double bed over the front seats that drops down, the cupboard space is more beneficial to us. Rapido do offer on an A class to remove the bed at extra cost!!, Are we doomed to trail an A class around with a double bed that we will not use or have we missed the obvious and they are out there.

[colin]

As you don't want the drop bed then why not consider a low profile?

[Brian Kirby]

I think you will find that most Hymer A class models can be obtained without the drop down bed, albeit at extra cost (about £500). I haven't checked the closely similar Burstner models, but they are Hymer group so may offer the same option. Ditto, I'd guess, Niesman & Bishoff (also Hymer group). It may therefore be worth your while checking Carthago and Concorde (though the latter generally tend to be larger) and Pilote and Le Voyageur, all of which have UK dealerships. These are all generally held to be well built and specified vans. So, there are others "out there" and you are not doomed to trailing around a useless bed, and you will find models from all the above makers with the very popular (at least in mainland Europe) island bed layout. As there are now so many vans with this layout, it seems you should be able to find acceptably equivalent layouts to the one you favour.

 

If you are prepared to buy outside the UK (which generally means accepting a LHD van), you will find a still wider range of makes and models, usually at quite significantly lower prices for essentially identical specifications. However, you will in most cases have to place a factory order to get one with the A class bed omitted, and this will somewhat reduce the potential cost savings, though these should still be significant when compared to UK dealer prices. There is no current UK volume manufacturer of A class vans, though there are one or two manufacturers who offer high quality bespoke vehicles on truck chassis, that have characteristics very similar to the mainland A classes.

[BGD]

OK, a personal suggestion: consider saving yourself some serious money, and potential hassle, and simply don't bother with an A-class.

 

Get a 2002-to-2006 (older model), Fiat based, second-hand, low-profile chassis-cab motorhome with single beds (or a fixed double bed) at the rear...............or if you really want tons of storage space for longer tours, do what we've now done and get an over-cab motorhome instead, with a fixed double at the rear, and just use the overcab area for all your storage.

Ours is notionally a "6-berth". Which in practice makes it comfortable for two people.

 

For my money, I reckon a chassis-cab vehicle is a much better bet than an A-class (we've had both types).

Like-for-like they are generally cheaper to buy, easier to maintain; parts such as windscreens, body panels, bonnets etc are bog-standard and MUCH cheaper to replace; engine and chassis-cab wiring is bog standard, and almost any garage can work on them/source parts easily.

 

 

[bolero boy]

Removing the drop down bed from an A-Class motorhome will cost you money when you order it (optional extra!) and loads of money when you sell it as 99.9% of customers wanting an A-Class will want that bed you haven't got.

 

How about thinking laterally (literally) by 'swinging' the van around and go for an A-Class with ONLY a drop down bed like a Burstner Aviano 645, Rapido 9048, Hymer B544 etc. All these are around 6.60 mtrs long, can easily run at 3500kg and have simply massive lounges and kitchen/washroom facilities.

 

Pure two berth luxury.

[Wooie]

All of these are " Low Profile, Island Bed " i believe. :-

 

http://www.highbridgecaravans.co.uk/motorhomeSearchResults.php?Orderby=Price&make=%25&base=%25&layout=Island+Bed&profile=%25&berth=%25&priceMin=0&priceMax=500000&stockType=newAndUsed

 

Some have a Drop Down bed some don`t, take your pick.

 

The Emotion 693 and Flash 28 and 691FF are what you are looking for maybe ?

[Brian Kirby]

From the current Burstner catalogue, it seems the Aviano 645 is not on offer for 2013.

 

Apart from that, the further advantage of this suggestion would be a much more compact van, which can have its advantages.

 

I have my doubts about the viability of at least the Hymer B544 at 3,500kg MAM. (There is also the B534 at the same size.) It is claimed 3050kg MIRO, but these are all those "packs", some of which are bound to be included, all of which raise the MIRO. Same caveat regarding Hymer's calculation of MIRO as for the Exsis - check carefully what allowance for fresh water has been made, and remember that German gas cylinders are aluminium, and smaller capacity, than those commonly available in UK. Just correcting for a full tank of water and two steel 13kg cylinders will knock nearly 150kg from the claimed, already not excessive, payload! An awning another 40 or so kg.

 

However, as the OP was looking for an island bed model, it is likely he already has a driving licence for vehicles exceeding 3.5 tonnes, and expects to retain this into the future, so a chassis upgrade should be of little concern. It is notable that the drop-down bed can be left down during daytime without prejudicing the lounge/dining area, and all these vans offer excellent rear mounted kitchens giving far better worktop space than the majority.

 

So, even accepting the above caveats, I'd say this type of layout is an alternative at least worth looking at, if it has not already been considered and rejected.

[Brian Kirby]

bolero boy - 2013-03-09 1:57 PM

 

Removing the drop down bed from an A-Class motorhome will cost you .................... loads of money when you sell it as 99.9% of customers wanting an A-Class will want that bed you haven't got................

However, I do wonder at the evidence for this claim. Is this supported by fact? It is widely claimed by dealers to be the case, but do all buyers of A class vans really want to sleep 4 or more? The cost of most A classes is out of reach for most "family" buyers, most buyers apparently being relatively well off retirees. I wonder how many of the latter group really want this additional sleeping accommodation, and how many are persuaded by the sales staff that omitting the bed will further devalue their prized liability! :-) It seems to have something of the whiff of a self-fulfilling prophesy to me! Does anyone have any facts?

[Colin Leake]

If you are changing from a caravan you are obviously new to motorhoming. I'm not saying don't buy one but I would urge you to think carefully about buying an A Class. They may look good but will have very little if any real advantage in your case. They cost more, spare parts like windscreens, headlights and even mirrors are expensive and may take a long while to obtain. As an example a new headlight for Hymer is £1000 and most windscreens are well over £2000. If you damage the front body work it's not going to be easy to repair as opposed to simply replacing standard Fiat body panels. Also limited access to the engine bay will make servicing more expensive as it will all take longer. Serious work on the engine or gearbox will be a nightmare. Access from the cab can be compromised as well. The most you will have is one cab door and even that will be on the wrong side for the UK!

 

The main advantage used to be the drop down bed, although even that is no longer the case as many lowline motorhomes now have these, which you are planning to do away with.

 

You are about to spend a lot of money so be careful, take your time and think just what you need. One final tip however nice the interior is when you sit in it make a list of what items you want to take away with you, especially the bulky ones like chairs, big leveling blocks, mains cable, water hoses and BBQ etc. You would be surprised how many attractive motorhomes there are on the market which don't have room to store such items properly.

 

For the record we have an AutoTrail with a transverse double bed across the rear giving us a lovely big garage underneath. Not only do we store the above mentioned items in there but also a folding bike and I've even built a wine rack in there which can be reached from inside the motorhome!

 

 

[Brock]

I do smile when I read these adverse comments about A-classes. I've had two and in 13 years of ownership, I haven't had any problems with broken windscreens, headlights, doors on the wrong side, loading margins [my 544 is comfortably under 3,500 in touring mode], servicing; in fact I can't really think of any reason why I will not buy another A-class except the prices are rising. They are much more relaxing to drive on the road - I've had 3 coachbuilts. I'm not saying problems do not exist, of course they do but no more than low profiles which to me are unnecessarily long and thus come with problems associated with length.

 

However, if you don't want a drop down bed, then I wonder why you want an A-class because that is its forte. I can understand the need for storage although you can store your bedding in the A-class drop down bed when on the move. Our Hymer 544 has too much storage space for the two of us. We were caravanners and it does require discipline not to take the kitchen sink with you when you take up motorhoming. You need to remember you have to pack motorhomes just as carefully as caravans because the loading margin soon gets eaten up.

 

Much depends on the nature of your motorhoming style. We tend to use sites rather than wildcamp. We rarely fill the water tank to its full capacity; it seems such a waste of water and the fuel to hump it around. As a caravanner, you will know how much water you will use each day.

 

Despite my love of A-classes for their convenience in so many ways and so few drawbacks in reality, the advice to go for a low profile or coachbuilt with a luton is sound if you don't want the drop down bed.

 

Oh you could probably find an American RV that is an A-class without drop down bed!

 

 

 

[bolero boy]

Brian Kirby - 2013-03-09 3:25 PM

 

bolero boy - 2013-03-09 1:57 PM

 

Removing the drop down bed from an A-Class motorhome will cost you .................... loads of money when you sell it as 99.9% of customers wanting an A-Class will want that bed you haven't got................

However, I do wonder at the evidence for this claim. Is this supported by fact? It is widely claimed by dealers to be the case, but do all buyers of A class vans really want to sleep 4 or more? The cost of most A classes is out of reach for most "family" buyers, most buyers apparently being relatively well off retirees. I wonder how many of the latter group really want this additional sleeping accommodation, and how many are persuaded by the sales staff that omitting the bed will further devalue their prized liability! :-) It seems to have something of the whiff of a self-fulfilling prophesy to me! Does anyone have any facts?

No Brian, I dont have facts - just a very strong gut feeling.

I may not describe myself as a 'well off retiree' but we are both retired and have two children who, currently have no children of their own. It is very likely on our next sojourn to the sunshine that one of the children (+ partner) may join us on site for a cheap break. A ready made cab bed would be useful in such circumstanses. Yes, I know they could use a tent or make do with a made-up bed fron a Brit-type lounge.

If salesmen are involved in the 'options' dicussion, why would they not encourage the deletion of the cab bed as they would be charging £1200 for Rapido and £416 on the B-Class.

I also take your point about the Burstner Aviano i645 not being in the catalog this year. However, here's a beauty http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/used-motorhomes/burstner/aviano/2011-burstner-aviano-i645-diesel-worcester-mfpa-8aa11af33cd969c2013cf2e1dbd44539

[moline1909]

Hi Brian, Thanks for your comments, I am interested in buying new from Europe and saving money. Have you done this yourself or do you know how to go about it. Mike

[Rayjsj]

bolero boy - 2013-03-09 1:57 PM

 

Removing the drop down bed from an A-Class motorhome will cost you money when you order it (optional extra!) and loads of money when you sell it as 99.9% of customers wanting an A-Class will want that bed you haven't got.

 

How about thinking laterally (literally) by 'swinging' the van around and go for an A-Class with ONLY a drop down bed like a Burstner Aviano 645, Rapido 9048, Hymer B544 etc. All these are around 6.60 mtrs long, can easily run at 3500kg and have simply massive lounges and kitchen/washroom facilities.

 

Pure two berth luxury.

 

Unless you are unable to climb up into a bed 3' or 4' off the ground ? and a lot of us cannot. Ray

[PJay]

BGD - 2013-03-09 1:21 PM

 

OK, a personal suggestion: consider saving yourself some serious money, and potential hassle, and simply don't bother with an A-class.

 

Get a 2002-to-2006 (older model), Fiat based, second-hand, low-profile chassis-cab motorhome with single beds (or a fixed double bed) at the rear...............or if you really want tons of storage space for longer tours, do what we've now done and get an over-cab motorhome instead, with a fixed double at the rear, and just use the overcab area for all your storage.

Ours is notionally a "6-berth". Which in practice makes it comfortable for two people.

 

For my money, I reckon a chassis-cab vehicle is a much better bet than an A-class (we've had both types).

Like-for-like they are generally cheaper to buy, easier to maintain; parts such as windscreens, body panels, bonnets etc are bog-standard and MUCH cheaper to replace; engine and chassis-cab wiring is bog standard, and almost any garage can work on them/source parts easily.

 

Have to agree with Bruce. We have a 2006 Fiat with over cab bed, which we do not sleep in,(OK for younger people, but getting up/down ladder in night, NO) but very useful for storing the bedding, and spare clothes. We take bedding for both cool and warmer nights, as we go away from Late April to July, so can be cold at night in April/May, also can store Wet weather coats, which hopefully will not need. Our van is 5 berth, with 4 seat belts. If you intend to take family bear in mind the seat belt requirements!

 

Good luck in your search. Personally, would stick to caravan, which we intend to change to.

PJay

[Guest peter]

When we changed our burstner fitted with a fixed french bed we would only consider a motorhome with the only bed being an electric drop down. So we could have loads of lounging space and the whole of the floor area available during the day. We bought a LeVoyageur as this was the only one that ticked all of our boxes. It was a lot more expensive, but it does what we want, so was well worth it.

Think very carefully if you only want a 2 berth whether a fixed bed will not be a waste of valuable floor space. Our van is 6.6 Mtrs long and looks a lot bigger on the inside as a result of the drop down bed.

[Colin Leake]

Yes but the real attraction for many of us is the vast amount of storage space to be found under a fixed bed. In our case I we would find it difficult to manage without it. When we were looking for our first motorhome after many years with a caravan we discounted a fixed bed as taking up to much space. Thank heavens we thought about the storage space we required before buying one.

 

Our present AutoTrail has a fixed transverse rear bed with a big garage underneath. We are not short of space though as the one thing it does not have is a space consuming fixed table! It seems more spacious than many units we have looked at giving plenty of space in the well equipped kitchen and toilet plus feet up lounging in the front without using the cab seats.

 

For none cooked meals we use the small round table mounted on a swinging arm. For more serious dining we need to effect the folding table that stows away in its own slot at the back. May seem a bit of a hassle but it only takes 12 seconds, I've timed it (I know sad that really but little thinks as they say).

[Mel B]

peter - 2013-03-12 3:13 PM

 

When we changed our burstner fitted with a fixed french bed we would only consider a motorhome with the only bed being an electric drop down. So we could have loads of lounging space and the whole of the floor area available during the day. We bought a LeVoyageur as this was the only one that ticked all of our boxes. It was a lot more expensive, but it does what we want, so was well worth it.

Think very carefully if you only want a 2 berth whether a fixed bed will not be a waste of valuable floor space. Our van is 6.6 Mtrs long and looks a lot bigger on the inside as a result of the drop down bed.

It just goes to show how different we are! Our last 4 MHs have had fixed beds and we love it that way! Quite apart from the storage benefits, what it gives us is 2 separate 'rooms' so if hubby wants to watch a bit of TV or have a snooze he can pop onto the bed and do so (the TV's over the bed) whilst I can do a bit of web surfing or my puzzle book in peace at the front, alternatively I'll often go on the bed myself and do my surfing/puzzle book whilst he does the washing up or has a shuftie at the maps etc whilst planing the following day's travel. If we only had a drop down bed, which covered the lounge seating, we couldn't do this, so for us it wouldn't work. I can't see us NOT having a fixed bed for a long, long time.

 

It would be extremely boring if we were all the same would it! :-D

[Brian Kirby]

moline1909 - 2013-03-12 9:45 AM

 

Hi Brian, Thanks for your comments, I am interested in buying new from Europe and saving money. Have you done this yourself or do you know how to go about it. Mike

I'll PM you, Mike, rather than cluttering your post with detail.

[Guest JudgeMental]

moline1909 - 2013-03-12 9:45 AM

 

Hi Brian, Thanks for your comments, I am interested in buying new from Europe and saving money. Have you done this yourself or do you know how to go about it. Mike

 

New or used? First step call DVLA for an import pack. The site linked to below offers a pretty good explanation of the process..out of date though, but it will give you an idea. A bit long winded but good on detail, it's not difficult and if interested in German campers makes sense. Belgium a more convenient country as well with just as good deals.....

 

Have a look on www.mobile.de and compare prices remembering that further discounts negotiable. If you want more detail. Post a fresh thread, may be better then going of topic in this one...

 

http://www.europebycamper.com/p/import-guide_04.html

[Brian Kirby]

moline1909 - 2013-03-12 9:45 AM

 

Hi Brian, Thanks for your comments, I am interested in buying new from Europe and saving money. Have you done this yourself or do you know how to go about it. Mike

Mike, check your inbox (immediately beneath the "Weclome" bar), you have a PM.