What would you buy, up to £8K?

[Sherlock]

Hello Motorhomers, I am an aspiring MH owner, middle-aged chap with wife and three older kids looking to buy a MH under about £8k that we can use for summer trips to Europe and some sunny day outings in the UK. I have read a great deal on this site and others about possible vans, but am still left feeling that it is a lot of judgement but also a lot of luck in getting a really good secondhand MH. So, can I ask some of you experienced folk what you would buy for this price? Here is my shopping list of attributes that I think I do and don't need:

- Ideally an automatic

- at least four travelling seats (I like the Elddis Autostratus EK layout, with forward-facing bench seats in the middle)

- blown air heating (people seem to say this is better)

- a good toilet, as my ageing Mum might be tempted to come out if it is nice

- no too big so my wife will not go TOTALLY crazy when she sees it...

- captain's seats with arm rests

- I don't think we will sleep in one very often, maybe perhaps two kids (15 and 19 - I still think of them as kids :-D ) so the larger over-cab bed area is not essential

Any ideas and thoughts re models or engines would be much appreciated...and I hope others who are thinking might also benefit.

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

You should take a look at the "Bargain bangers" thread, although I'm bound to say your wish list sounds very ambitious for 8k, . :-(

 

But remember kit on these things are very expensive, so if you do find a "bargain" make sure everything works, I bought one once and the first thing I had to do was spend another £900 on the heating system.

[Wooie]

I think you are really going to struggle with that Budget.

[Sherlock]

Thanks for quick replies - I have seen a few Autosleepers Symphony models which do look okay, but only three seats. Another option I have considered is to spend much more - £18k ish - and get a good van that will have good re-sale value in a few years time. Some vans seem to sell for a very high price, even at older ages, so I'd be interested to know if people think this is an option.

 

I did read the 'bangers' thread with interest this morning, looking carefully at all the options, some of which seem to be good, but maybe prone to lots of mechanical issues...

[Guest pelmetman]

Sherlock - 2013-03-16 11:16 AM

 

I did read the 'bangers' thread with interest this morning, looking carefully at all the options, some of which seem to be good, but maybe prone to lots of mechanical issues...

 

Welcome to the asylum Sherlock :D....................don't let some of the inmates put you off buying an older van ;-)..............if you bear in mind many 20 year old camper vans will of done just 50k miles.....less than 3k a year 8-)........and they are built on commercial vehicle chassis designed to do mega miles.

 

So look out for low mileage, low owner vehicles, as in the main they will have been cherished by their owners B-)..................The main issue with older campers mechanically is rubber......whether its tyres, cambelts etc they have a finite life and should on average be renewed every 5 years or so ;-)..........

 

The bogey man in camper terms is damp 8-).........expensive to rectify if not caught early......and the best tool for the job is your nose if you smell damp walk away........and as 1foot said check all the kit works :-S

 

 

[Rayjsj]

Motorhomes and campers DO hold their value, and after a 'certain age' you can throw the 'Glass's Guide' out of the window, because it then becomes ALL about condition. Expect them to have Low mileages (unless used as an 'only vehicle'). If a 'Coachbuilt' then water Ingress becomes a big consideration, ME, i'd go for an early 'Monocoque' Coachbuilt Autosleeper, prefererably on a Ford chassis, (Legend) But the 'seatbelt requirement' will be a problem, as back then they were not fitted, and if they were they would be 'Lap only' belts. That's my advice (and opinion) anyway. Good Hunting ! Ray

 

http://www.adtrader.co.uk/south-west/devon/paignton/caravans-and-camping/motor-homes/auto-sleepers-legend/e506861ceff4412b9fe52415e1c5453d?keywords=sleeper%20legend

 

a bit more than your 'Target' but with 'Cash' you can bargain.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Further to Pelmetmans comments about the "Bogey man" I think with older vans a lot of things are overlooked, the first being that these things are not "built to last" they are first and foremost a commercial van, designed to be hammered for just a few years, and then scrapped. Some of the early Talbots rusted dreadfully, parts availability can be a nightmare, if not possible at all. Me I wouldn't want the hassle, not much good getting a "bargain" if you can't get a clutch cable !

 

I'd also say low mileage would not be a deciding factor for me, better that something has been used and well maintained, than one stuck for months on end on somebodies drive, the driven by somebody who rides the clutch and thinks maintenance is filling up the windscreen wash bottle.

 

On any van do check the tyre age,and condition, again not helped by sitting a long time.

 

But I do think a good compromise between age and condition could be reached but for a budget of around 15/18k private purchase. My particular van 2003 2.8 Jtd Ducato does not have the 5th gear issue as the earlier ones had, and mine is not fitted with a cat, just a front pipe that costs around £45. The engine is supposedly one of the best that Fiat produced, and fuel economy is good. Engine noise is light years better than earlier vans, so in short a non cat 2.8 jtd chassis would be my choice, just then to decide which converter to choose, but they all leak, so choose carefully, friend of mine bought a 2003 Autotrail only to find water cascading through the roof light the first time it rained, how on earth the seller managed to disguise the fact God knows, no surprise he said it had never happened while he owned it , so check, check, and check again, even from a dealer. ;-)

[BGD]

There are plenty of motorhomes on ebay for the sort of money you are talking about.

 

 

We've had two motorhomes of 1992 vintage and have had fantastic fun with both of them.

 

There's nothing wrong with cheap and cheerful, particularly if you are a reasonable home mechanic, as servicing these older vehicles really is easy.

 

There's a LOT less to go wrong on them than on the nearly-new, computerised all-singing-and-dancing motorhomes.

They'll happily (and slowly!) chug all around Europe, and were designed to do 300,000 miles or more, so at maybe 100,000 have LOADS of life left in them if well maintained............but I would go for the 2.5 turbo diesel engine rather than the non turbo, and I would go for power steering too if possible.

 

 

 

 

An example of the sort of thing that you might consider maybe:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SWIFT-ROYALE-540-MOTORHOME-5-BERTH-CAMPER-/160974509023?pt=UK_Campers_Caravans_Motorhomes&hash=item257ad413df

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

We're all different, but considering you'll be driving the thing to get where you want go, there is nothing so frustrating for me than a van that only has to see a hill and give up, or one that you have to shout to your passenger to be heard above the din, so do try and shortlist at least three and test drive them to make that comparison, we were newbies not that long back, ( well apart from our old Commer sold in the 1970's ) and a our first coach-built was a nightmare in almost every respect, what a pity I only judged my purchase about the layout and kit, completely forgot I'd be driving the bloody thing. :D and it drunk fuel to boot.

[Sherlock]

Thanks to everyone for these replies - they are all really helpful! 1Foot.... I saw your Commer picture and it brought back some real memories: my parents in the early 70s bought a secondhand Commer van and we tried to kit it out as a camper with wooden bench seats in the back. As a young lad I was entranced by this - and was convinced we were going to use it to emigrate to Australia! We kept it and then it broke down and ended up in the back garden where my brother and I cut a hole in the roof and turned it into (get this:) s solar observatory... painted white inside we used binoculars to project the sun on the walls, worked very well indeed...

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Sherlock - 2013-03-16 12:57 PM

 

Thanks to everyone for these replies - they are all really helpful! 1Foot.... I saw your Commer picture and it brought back some real memories: my parents in the early 70s bought a secondhand Commer van and we tried to kit it out as a camper with wooden bench seats in the back. As a young lad I was entranced by this - and was convinced we were going to use it to emigrate to Australia! We kept it and then it broke down and ended up in the back garden where my brother and I cut a hole in the roof and turned it into (get this:) s solar observatory... painted white inside we used binoculars to project the sun on the walls, worked very well indeed...

 

Hard to believe but we actually came into possession of our Commer with a straight swap for a trailer tent we had been using, sheer luxury although it was in a very sad state when we first had it. I actually got a brand new overdrive unit for it, and fitted myself, the prop shaft had to be shortened as a result, a mate who worked for BL took it into work cut it down to size and welded it back up for me. Then followed lots of body and chassis welding, a full respray, and off we went, with our two girls, one of whom slept up in the pop up roof space, no wonder she suffers from claustrophobia, :D

 

Probably left me with a phobia of trying to bring stuff back from the dead though after that. ;-)

 

You can just see underneath a support for the gearbox during the fitting of the overdrive and prop. And all the copious primer. ( and the odd bit of filler ) :D

[lennyhb]

If you don't mind a left hooker Which would make sence if you are using it in Europe there are some real bargains to be had in Germany.

 

Take a look at Mobile.de

[Brian Kirby]

It sounds as though your use of the van might be quite intermittent. It also sounds a bit as though it may have to carry five. The former suggests to me that your van may suffer more from standing around than from use (not uncommon :-)). The latter points to a largish van so, unless you have a driving licence for vehicles over 3.5 tonnes, you may have trouble with the available payload.

 

I have a couple of initial suggestions.

 

The first is to buy this book: http://tinyurl.com/8973u2p It was written by motorhomers for motorhomers and for those considering buying. It is full of information, and just might steer you away from expensive mistakes when choosing.

 

The second is to consider hiring instead of buying. Obviously not a cheap option, though not so bad if out of the peak season. You can also hire on the continent, so it gives a chance to try LHD if you have not yet done so. Perhaps more importantly, it would give you a chance to experiment with different types of van, to see what works best for you, before committing major finance. You would also avoid the need for road tax, maintenance, and insurance, as well as the depreciation. You never know, you may decide it is what you always wanted, but you may decide motorhoming is not for you.

 

To get the best use and value from these vehicles you really need to use them frequently, or to be able to make extended trips. As said above, they are based on tough commercial vehicles built for high mileages. However, their lives are generally brutish and short! For your budget, you will be looking at quite elderly vans. The Achilles heel of most motorhomes is water ingress, generally through body panel seams, and around door, rooflight, and window, openings. Sealants tend to harden with age, and most coachbuilt bodies make extensive use of sealants. Older generations of sealant are not generally as good as modern ones. So, water ingress is a serious risk, and cannot be eliminated simply by testing what you buy. I'm sorry to sound pessimistic, but leaks as vans age are almost inevitable, and can and do start for no immediately apparent reason.

 

For this reason, I would look mainly for those Auto Sleepers vans with monocoque GRP bodies. Leaks around windows can arise, but the bodyshell itself, due to the way they are made, is pretty much water resistant. Then buy with an eye to evidence of careful use and service record, as well as what your eye tells you about the base vehicle bodywork. They came on a variety of bases, and have always been popular, so there should be plenty of choice around. The drawback to that popularity is that they generally fetch quite good prices. I'm sure others will be able to suggest suitable Auto Sleeper models, and possibly a few more makes for consideration.

[Tea Cup]

Well, for what it's worth - I bought a 2003 hi roof LWB Vauxhall Vivaro (Renault Trafic) from E-bay, 18 months ago, for £6k. It had a very high mileage (180k), but had a good body, a new engine, and was fitted out as a campervan. We used it for 2 month long trips to France, plus a few trips in the UK. It broke down once in France with a simple clutch hydraulics problem, fixed in 4 hours, claimed and fully paid for by the breakdown insurance. And we still caught the ferry.

 

It carried out its brief fully, and we had a very good year with it.

 

Meanwhile,I was not happy with the look and standard of the furniture, so I decided to refit it over winter, and have nearly finished this refit,. It will soon be ready for another summer of touring, complete with solar panels, very smart furniture etc. (compared to the original) and it looks a real treat.

 

The point being, it has cost less than £8k, we have had over a year's superb touring, with a van which cruises happily at 70mph or more returning over 35mpg, It's a modern, stylish van, not like the 1980s or 90s tosh that i was previously looking at. If I were to sell it now I could easily realize all I spent on it. I felt I could not justify spending something like £20-£30k to do the same job, and have it sit on the drive for half the year. So it is possible for £8k

 

In a few weeks time, we're off again. Roll on spring!

[nowtelse2do]

Sherlock - 2013-03-16 10:40 AM

 

- I don't think we will sleep in one very often, maybe perhaps two kids (15 and 19 - I still think of them as kids :-D ) so the larger over-cab bed area is not essential

 

Any ideas and thoughts re models or engines would be much appreciated...and I hope others who are thinking might also benefit.

 

Wanting automatics will limit you to probably Ford & Merc's.

 

Don't think a 15 yr old and a 19 yr old would appreciate sleeping in a overcab bed, well not in my experience anyway 8-)

 

Dave

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Tea Cup - 2013-03-16 9:22 PM

 

Well, for what it's worth - I bought a 2003 hi roof LWB Vauxhall Vivaro (Renault Trafic) from E-bay, 18 months ago, for £6k. It had a very high mileage (180k), but had a good body, a new engine, and was fitted out as a campervan. We used it for 2 month long trips to France, plus a few trips in the UK. It broke down once in France with a simple clutch hydraulics problem, fixed in 4 hours, claimed and fully paid for by the breakdown insurance. And we still caught the ferry.

 

It carried out its brief fully, and we had a very good year with it.

 

Meanwhile,I was not happy with the look and standard of the furniture, so I decided to refit it over winter, and have nearly finished this refit,. It will soon be ready for another summer of touring, complete with solar panels, very smart furniture etc. (compared to the original) and it looks a real treat.

 

The point being, it has cost less than £8k, we have had over a year's superb touring, with a van which cruises happily at 70mph or more returning over 35mpg, It's a modern, stylish van, not like the 1980s or 90s tosh that i was previously looking at. If I were to sell it now I could easily realize all I spent on it. I felt I could not justify spending something like £20-£30k to do the same job, and have it sit on the drive for half the year. So it is possible for £8k

 

In a few weeks time, we're off again. Roll on spring!

 

The OP needs a four berth, with two rear belted seats, and full facilities, we have a LWB Ducato PVC, but to cram 4 people in it would be near impossible I think. ;-)

[flicka]

Hi Sherlock & welcome to the forum

IMHO looking at Coachbuilt vans is the wrong direction for you.

 

You say you would like Automatic - very few & far between with the age of vans you will be looking at, also any you do find maybe more of "automated manuals" rather than fully automatic.

Coachbuilt vans are more attuned to space for "living-in" as apposed your requirements which (to me) would indicate a "Day-Van" as you indicate "not too big" & "don't think we will sleep in it very often"

 

Have you considered something like the VW T4/T5, Mercedes Vito & Japanese vans (similar in size to the VW T4/T5) with raising roof - Wellhouse, Bilbo's, Bongo's or similar - they usually have 4 or 5 belted seats & provision for portaloo. Lots of the Japanese imports were available with Automatic boxes.

Another alternative would possibly be a high-top conversion on SWB van.

 

Also you may be able to justify an increase your budget as many owners use them as "everyday" transport.

 

Have a look at www.wellhouseleisure.com or www.conceptmulti-car.co.uk for ideas.

 

as an example - Peak Leisure's Van of the month (in March MMM) - VW T4 - 4 berth @ £6,950 although sold, so at the price it didn't sit around long.

[yeti]

Have a look for a Hymer 544 circa 1990-1999 Mine gave me 16 years of reliable service and it was on a FIAT 2.5TD. went all over Europe and Scandanavia. Which was more than could be said for the new 2008 X250 I replaced it with.

Should find one in your price range

[Guest JudgeMental]

I had a quick look around and could not see anything worthwhile in the price range..mostly shabby old rot boxes to my eyes. I would seriously consider a smaller vehicle and kids can sleep in a pop up tent..they will prefer it and that way all get some privacy

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

JudgeMental - 2013-03-17 10:55 AM

 

I had a quick look around and could not see anything worthwhile in the price range..mostly shabby old rot boxes to my eyes. I would seriously consider a smaller vehicle and kids can sleep in a pop up tent..they will prefer it and that way all get some privacy

 

No your wrong about that Eddie, take a look at Pelmetmans "bargain bangers" thread, some great stuff if you don't mind a pile of welding, engine swaps,and the rest,and driving something akin to an old Fordson tractor, and of course all in excellent condition.

[Guest pelmetman]

1footinthegrave - 2013-03-17 11:16 AM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-03-17 10:55 AM

 

I had a quick look around and could not see anything worthwhile in the price range..mostly shabby old rot boxes to my eyes. I would seriously consider a smaller vehicle and kids can sleep in a pop up tent..they will prefer it and that way all get some privacy

 

No your wrong about that Eddie, take a look at Pelmetmans "bargain bangers" thread, some great stuff if you don't mind a pile of welding, engine swaps,and the rest,and driving something akin to an old Fordson tractor, and of course all in excellent condition.

 

Or you could by a new vehicle ;-).......if you don't mind a bit of judder when you reverse......

 

Or a cambelt that might freeze and wreck your'e engine.......

 

Or a Cat that appears to be the local tea leafs raison d'etre.........

 

Or a DPF that has all the makings of being the next new vehicle expensive curse (lol) (lol).........and all for a mere 50 grand :D

 

If you buy one I should still get it MOT'd though ;-)......as I read in this months MMM a brand new van failed 8-)

 

Edit to say........Progress eh? >:-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

Or or or or...more nonsense....Drive what you want, but this constant justification for driving old bangers by making illogical comparisons with newer vehicles plain bonkers.

 

I would rather throw a tent in the car and tour Italy reliably and in comfort then travel in any of these old crates

[Guest pelmetman]

JudgeMental - 2013-03-17 11:41 AM

 

Or or or or...more nonsense....Drive what you want, but this constant justification for driving old bangers by making illogical comparisons with newer vehicles plain bonkers.

 

I would rather throw a tent in the car and tour Italy reliably and in comfort then travel in any of these old crates

 

How would you define reliable Judge? :-S.............would 4 trips to Spain 3 to France in the last 3 years qualify?....

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

pelmetman - 2013-03-17 11:48 AM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-03-17 11:41 AM

 

Or or or or...more nonsense....Drive what you want, but this constant justification for driving old bangers by making illogical comparisons with newer vehicles plain bonkers.

 

I would rather throw a tent in the car and tour Italy reliably and in comfort then travel in any of these old crates

 

How would you define reliable Judge? :-S.............would 4 trips to Spain 3 to France in the last 3 years qualify?....

 

Yes it probaly does, but it depends on whats done in between, and sorry Dave, you are missing one vital thing out, it's refinement and comfort, a pal of mine has a Rapido that is the dogs, would I swap my 2003 for it, yes in an instant.

 

My old Commer was reliable, never broke down, perhaps I should be still going round in that. :D

[BGD]

JudgeMental - 2013-03-17 12:41 PM

 

Or or or or...more nonsense....Drive what you want, but this constant justification for driving old bangers by making illogical comparisons with newer vehicles plain bonkers.

 

I would rather throw a tent in the car and tour Italy reliably and in comfort then travel in any of these old crates

 

 

 

Each to their own Eddie, of course.

 

I would much rather save 40,000 pounds, or invest it somewhere where it would earn me money, rather than depreciating at maybe 10 to 15% per year, compound; and buy an older, simpler, cheaper to insure, much cheaper for spares, much cheaper for servicing, much cheaper for repairs, motorhome of say 10 or 15 years of age, with all it's initial faults sorted, and lots of bells and whistles added by previous owner(s). And frankly, the build quality and fit-and-finish that I have seen in loads of new motorhomes makes me cringe.

We'll be in ours for something like 25 weeks this year, in several tours around Europe during the year. Cost per night away is very very reasonable, in a totally reliable vehicle of 12 years of age, that we bought last summer and has still only done 48,000 kms.

 

And, as it happens, we are in a very fortunate, financially secure position that we could afford a brand new motorhome if we wanted one.

Some of you guys choose to either invest in such things, or throw away your money on such things, depending upon the observers point of view.

But to us, it seems a completely needless spend...ie to us it really would be a waste of money that could/would get us a lot more enjoyment by being spent on other things in due course.

 

Horses for courses.........