Guest pelmetman Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 John 47 - 2013-03-22 7:36 PMI think the most telling point in the whole thing is the quote from Mary Beard that they tried to bury in the middle of it. You mean the politically correct report that was produced by the council :D............ The Boston Protest Group, which organised last autumn’s demonstration, is planning similar events in neighbouring towns this year. He says that nearly all the contributors to the "council’s immigration report" were on the state payroll and thus had a vested interest in not rocking the boat. Of course they'll just be another load of bigots won't they? ;-).................. Plus the council would never use spin or strong arm tactics would they? 8-) ....... "As we stand on the street, Bob bumps into two friends who work for the council. They share his views, but say that if I were to use their names for this article, they would be fired."
John 47 Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-03-22 7:55 PM John 47 - 2013-03-22 7:36 PM pelmetman - 2013-03-22 7:14 PM According to John47 no one in the UK has lost work to the Eastern Europeans ;-)................well they don't agree with him in Boston :D Absolute rubbish - I have never said anything of the kind. "As to the low-skilled people who are willing to work but have had their jobs taken by Eastern Europeans - please give specific examples, otherwise this is just a random knee-jerk xenophobic response to a problem that doesn't really exist." What does ****Traditionally, the work was done by students and by part-time workers brought in from urban areas such as Doncaster and Nottingham.**** mean then? Or........."For their part, many locals found they could not compete with newcomers prepared to work longer hours while living in accommodation that verged on squalor. As wage levels came down and local workers either moved elsewhere or fell back on the benefits system, so more and more migrants came in to fill the gaps. " ??? :-S There are laws about a minimum wage and minimum working conditions in the UK. If employers are undermining those laws then I suggest you direct your questions to them. It is interting to note, though, that you talk about immigrants taking work that was otherwise done by part-timers or students. If the UK economy hinges on those jobs then there is a major problem that has nothing whatever to do with immigrants. And once again, I repeat that I did not say no-one has lost a job to East Europeans. I said that most jobs that East Europeans have secured for themselves have been either jobs that others have not wanted to do or jobs in which they have shown themselves very hard working and very skilled at. Even Nigel Farage employed Poles to rennovate his mansion!
John 47 Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-03-22 8:05 PM John 47 - 2013-03-22 7:36 PMI think the most telling point in the whole thing is the quote from Mary Beard that they tried to bury in the middle of it. You mean the politically correct report that was produced by the council :D............ No. I mean the quote from Mary Beard who is nobody's puppet!
Guest pelmetman Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 John 47 - 2013-03-22 8:15 PM pelmetman - 2013-03-22 7:55 PM John 47 - 2013-03-22 7:36 PM pelmetman - 2013-03-22 7:14 PM According to John47 no one in the UK has lost work to the Eastern Europeans ;-)................well they don't agree with him in Boston :D Absolute rubbish - I have never said anything of the kind. "As to the low-skilled people who are willing to work but have had their jobs taken by Eastern Europeans - please give specific examples, otherwise this is just a random knee-jerk xenophobic response to a problem that doesn't really exist." What does ****Traditionally, the work was done by students and by part-time workers brought in from urban areas such as Doncaster and Nottingham.**** mean then? Or........."For their part, many locals found they could not compete with newcomers prepared to work longer hours while living in accommodation that verged on squalor. As wage levels came down and local workers either moved elsewhere or fell back on the benefits system, so more and more migrants came in to fill the gaps. " ??? :-S There are laws about a minimum wage and minimum working conditions in the UK. If employers are undermining those laws then I suggest you direct your questions to them. It is interting to note, though, that you talk about immigrants taking work that was otherwise done by part-timers or students. If the UK economy hinges on those jobs then there is a major problem that has nothing whatever to do with immigrants. And once again, I repeat that I did not say no-one has lost a job to East Europeans. I said that most jobs that East Europeans have secured for themselves have been either jobs that others have not wanted to do or jobs in which they have shown themselves very hard working and very skilled at. Even Nigel Farage employed Poles to rennovate his mansion! I think we'll have to agree to disagree ;-).............Those rose tinted specs of your's should be available on the NHS :D
John 47 Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-03-22 8:19 PM I think we'll have to agree to disagree ;-).............Those rose tinted specs of your's should be available on the NHS :D Nothing rose-tinted about my view of the world - I just see no point in trying to blame the wrong people. That way you just play into the hands of those we really should be blaming.
Guest pelmetman Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 John 47 - 2013-03-22 8:23 PM pelmetman - 2013-03-22 8:19 PM I think we'll have to agree to disagree ;-).............Those rose tinted specs of your's should be available on the NHS :D Nothing rose-tinted about my view of the world - I just see no point in trying to blame the wrong people. That way you just play into the hands of those we really should be blaming. Like the EU :D
John 47 Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-03-22 8:24 PM John 47 - 2013-03-22 8:23 PM pelmetman - 2013-03-22 8:19 PM I think we'll have to agree to disagree ;-).............Those rose tinted specs of your's should be available on the NHS :D Nothing rose-tinted about my view of the world - I just see no point in trying to blame the wrong people. That way you just play into the hands of those we really should be blaming. Like the EU :D If you like, but I was thinking of closer to home - successsive feeble governments. Many of the "new" accession countries to the EU were fooled by "streets paved with gold" stories that have turned out to be a mirage and they are now worse off than they were before. Similarly, it seems to me that many Brits are fooled by "streets paved with gold" stories if we leave. I think that if that happens, then we too will find that it was all a mirage. The EU is alternatively seen as a panacea and as a villain - neither view is altogether accurate.
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-03-22 8:24 PM John 47 - 2013-03-22 8:23 PM pelmetman - 2013-03-22 8:19 PM I think we'll have to agree to disagree ;-).............Those rose tinted specs of your's should be available on the NHS :D Nothing rose-tinted about my view of the world - I just see no point in trying to blame the wrong people. That way you just play into the hands of those we really should be blaming. Like the EU :D I should give up on him Dave, he more and more sounds like a Politician, plenty of hot air, but no real solutions. I'm really beginning to think this is a man that if you said Coal was Black he'd have a different view. He just likes a platform to spout from, but see's no problems in the UK, or if he does, offers no solutions, just dishes out his put downs, that's his prime objective, quite pathetic when you think about it, especially considering he;s supposed to be in Spain, yet he's on here from dawn to dusk, I'm fecking sure I wouldn't be if I was there.
Guest pelmetman Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 John 47 - 2013-03-22 10:41 AM The Big Issue con that you talked about is a crime. There are laws in place to deal with it. Unfortunately, if the will is not there to enforce those laws then it matters not a jot whether we are in or out of the EU. Found this John ;-)..........You might think its a crime.......but our judiciary doesn't seem to agree *-) Romanian Big Issue seller wins right to housing benefit Foreigners who sell the Big Issue will be entitled to claim housing benefit after a Romanian woman won a landmark case. Firuta Vasile selling the Big Issue Photo: Caters 8:00AM GMT 18 Jan 2012 Firuta Vasile, 27, was told by Bristol City Council that she was not entitled to housing benefit as European nationals are only entitled to claim it if they are in work. The mother-of-four took the council to court, arguing that selling the magazine for the homeless is a form of self–employment. The judge's ruling means EU nationals selling the Big Issue across the UK are now entitled to claim housing benefit. Ms Vasile, who has four children, one of whom is severely disabled, says the benefit will help her pay her rent and look after her family. Speaking through an interpreter, she said: "I came to the UK in 2007 to look for work. The only work I could find was selling the Big Issue on the streets of Bristol. I can keep half of the money I take and I usually make around £100 per week. "This isn't enough to meet all my family's needs so I asked the council for housing benefit to help with my rent. My claim was turned down. "I was told that because I am Romanian I could not get benefits unless I have a job or I am in self-employment. They said work for the Big Issue didn't count. "I got legal support and was helped with an appeal. My adviser got lots of evidence that selling the Big Issue really is self-employment. We won the appeal at a local tribunal last year but the council appealed. "The case was taken to the upper tribunal last week and we won. I am really pleased if this decision means that people from countries like Romania and Bulgaria who come to the UK to work hard are not treated unfairly." Her case was taken up by welfare benefits adviser Andy King, of Stokes Croft-based Avon and Bristol Law Centre. He said: "The judge ruled that working as a Big Issue vendor is self employment and European Union nationals can claim benefits as long as they work enough hours and sell enough Big Issues. "This is a great victory for people struggling to work to support their families. If people are willing and able to work, we need to encourage them to do so. "Anyone who thinks selling the Big Issue on a British street in winter is a soft option should have a go themselves". Stephen Robertson, chief executive of the Big Issue Foundation, said: "Big Issue vendors use their own money to buy their magazines and sell them at their own profit or loss. "It is by no means an easy task. I am pleased that this ruling represents an important acceptance of the challenges and the opportunities that the magazine mechanism represents for people regardless of where they come from." Still think the EU is a good idea? :D................well I hope you've got deep pockets (lol) (lol)
thebishbus Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 I have noticed John 47, that on this forum you seem to criticize most other peoples opinions , but do not seem to come up with any constructive solutions to our countries problems. I presume you would like our country to prosper and provide a good safe integrated living for all its population. So tell us in your opinion, what would be the best outcome to achieve this for our country at the next general election. Brian B.
John 47 Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-03-23 8:57 AM John 47 - 2013-03-22 10:41 AM The Big Issue con that you talked about is a crime. There are laws in place to deal with it. Unfortunately, if the will is not there to enforce those laws then it matters not a jot whether we are in or out of the EU. Found this John ;-)..........You might think its a crime.......but our judiciary doesn't seem to agree *-) Romanian Big Issue seller wins right to housing benefit Foreigners who sell the Big Issue will be entitled to claim housing benefit after a Romanian woman won a landmark case. Firuta Vasile selling the Big Issue Photo: Caters 8:00AM GMT 18 Jan 2012 Firuta Vasile, 27, was told by Bristol City Council that she was not entitled to housing benefit as European nationals are only entitled to claim it if they are in work. The mother-of-four took the council to court, arguing that selling the magazine for the homeless is a form of self–employment. The judge's ruling means EU nationals selling the Big Issue across the UK are now entitled to claim housing benefit. Ms Vasile, who has four children, one of whom is severely disabled, says the benefit will help her pay her rent and look after her family. Speaking through an interpreter, she said: "I came to the UK in 2007 to look for work. The only work I could find was selling the Big Issue on the streets of Bristol. I can keep half of the money I take and I usually make around £100 per week. "This isn't enough to meet all my family's needs so I asked the council for housing benefit to help with my rent. My claim was turned down. "I was told that because I am Romanian I could not get benefits unless I have a job or I am in self-employment. They said work for the Big Issue didn't count. "I got legal support and was helped with an appeal. My adviser got lots of evidence that selling the Big Issue really is self-employment. We won the appeal at a local tribunal last year but the council appealed. "The case was taken to the upper tribunal last week and we won. I am really pleased if this decision means that people from countries like Romania and Bulgaria who come to the UK to work hard are not treated unfairly." Her case was taken up by welfare benefits adviser Andy King, of Stokes Croft-based Avon and Bristol Law Centre. He said: "The judge ruled that working as a Big Issue vendor is self employment and European Union nationals can claim benefits as long as they work enough hours and sell enough Big Issues. "This is a great victory for people struggling to work to support their families. If people are willing and able to work, we need to encourage them to do so. "Anyone who thinks selling the Big Issue on a British street in winter is a soft option should have a go themselves". Stephen Robertson, chief executive of the Big Issue Foundation, said: "Big Issue vendors use their own money to buy their magazines and sell them at their own profit or loss. "It is by no means an easy task. I am pleased that this ruling represents an important acceptance of the challenges and the opportunities that the magazine mechanism represents for people regardless of where they come from." Still think the EU is a good idea? :D................well I hope you've got deep pockets (lol) (lol) But that is not the same as the con that was being talked about earlier. This case is about a woman who only wanted to work hard and carry out a legitimate right. The earlier case that was mentioned was about gangs of three or more people terrorising passers by and being part of a deliberate and organised scam. Apples and pears, I think! :-D
John 47 Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 thebishbus - 2013-03-23 9:03 AM I have noticed John 47, that on this forum you seem to criticize most other peoples opinions , but do not seem to come up with any constructive solutions to our countries problems. I presume you would like our country to prosper and provide a good safe integrated living for all its population. So tell us in your opinion, what would be the best outcome to achieve this for our country at the next general election. Brian B. Well, not offering a solution puts me in the same category as most others, don't you think? And I have never criticised reasoned opinion, even if I disagree with it. In fact I have on more than one ocassion said that I don't agree with somebody's conclusion but I can see how they got there - and of course they are perfectly entitled to that opinion. My "spats" have been with a small handful (and I stress SMALL handful) of people who have offered only bigoted views rather than reasoned ones. Ignoring the facts, they try to stir up hatred of whole groups of innocent people. As far as the next election is concerned - alongside most others, I think, I despair of the next election in which the choice will be between three ineffectual identikit professional politicians made in the Blair factory for Prime Ministers - or, coming up on the rails, a raving lunatic. Not a very edifying choice. No magic solution - but it might help if we blamed the people who got us into this mess rather than innocent ones. The future of the country lies in sorting out the economy and enforcing rules which already exist if people were bothered to enforce them - not in trying to further divide the inhabitants of this country by getting them to blame each other - or worse.
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 thebishbus - 2013-03-23 9:03 AM I have noticed John 47, that on this forum you seem to criticize most other peoples opinions , but do not seem to come up with any constructive solutions to our countries problems. I presume you would like our country to prosper and provide a good safe integrated living for all its population. So tell us in your opinion, what would be the best outcome to achieve this for our country at the next general election. Brian B. He thinks we all live in a vibrant multi cultural country that's fully integrated, and anyone like the lady from Boston is a miserable bigot that dares to suggest that is not the case. From even every architect of immigration policy now realising they have got it wrong, and in particular singling out the Muslim population for their failure to integrate his views are at complete odds with where the debate is now, don't for a minute think he'll acknowledge that though.
Guest pelmetman Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 John 47 - 2013-03-23 9:07 AM But that is not the same as the con that was being talked about earlier. This case is about a woman who only wanted to work hard and carry out a legitimate right. The earlier case that was mentioned was about gangs of three or more people terrorising passers by and being part of a deliberate and organised scam. Apples and pears, I think! :-D Sorry John...........Organised nit picking by your good self again ;-)........... The title to the Telegraph piece might give you a clue :D Romanian families use Big Issue loophole Romanian families are using the Big Issue to gain access to jobs and benefits in the UK
Guest pelmetman Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-03-23 10:09 AM From even every architect of immigration policy now realising they have got it wrong, and in particular singling out the Muslim population for their failure to integrate his views are at complete odds with where the debate is now, don't for a minute think he'll acknowledge that though. Trouble is Mike ;-)..................If, as we have discovered along with many others dare to put your head above the parapet to raise legitimate concerns ;-)................your immediately classed as a bigot by the loony liberals, who's much cherished baby of everyone from everywhere living in harmony in a nice fluffy wuffy world of peace and love (lol) (lol)...... Yeah man........well they need to leave the wacky baccy alone, and wake up and smell the coffee *-)........because their dreams of utopia have turned into a very expensive failure 8-)
Guest pelmetman Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-03-23 10:09 AM He thinks we all live in a vibrant multi cultural country that's fully integrated, and anyone like the lady from Boston is a miserable bigot that dares to suggest that is not the case. The solution? ‘A padlock,’ says Mandy Exley firmly. ‘I’m not kidding. We haven’t got any more jobs.’ Blimey. Mandy is not a finger-wagging emissary from UKIP or a sepia-tinted reactionary. She is the much-respected ‘community cohesion officer’ for the Lincolnshire Community And Voluntary Service. Yeah...... those Dam Community Cohesion Officers........Bigots the whole lot of em (lol) (lol) (lol)
Guest pelmetman Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 John 47 - 2013-03-23 9:18 AM Well, not offering a solution puts me in the same category as most others, don't you think? Eh? :-S.........................We've got the solution ;-)...............You just don't like it :D Leave the EU :-D
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-03-23 10:29 AM John 47 - 2013-03-23 9:18 AM Well, not offering a solution puts me in the same category as most others, don't you think? Eh? :-S.........................We've got the solution ;-)...............You just don't like it :D Leave the EU :-D Oh no, now you'll get a lecture on how wonderful the EU is, especially if he just happens to be a Cypriot :D
John 47 Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-03-23 10:14 AM John 47 - 2013-03-23 9:07 AM But that is not the same as the con that was being talked about earlier. This case is about a woman who only wanted to work hard and carry out a legitimate right. The earlier case that was mentioned was about gangs of three or more people terrorising passers by and being part of a deliberate and organised scam. Apples and pears, I think! :-D Sorry John...........Organised nit picking by your good self again ;-)........... The title to the Telegraph piece might give you a clue :D Romanian families use Big Issue loophole Romanian families are using the Big Issue to gain access to jobs and benefits in the UK Still believing evrything you read in the newspapers, I see! :-D
Guest pelmetman Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 John 47 - 2013-03-23 12:05 PM pelmetman - 2013-03-23 10:14 AM John 47 - 2013-03-23 9:07 AM But that is not the same as the con that was being talked about earlier. This case is about a woman who only wanted to work hard and carry out a legitimate right. The earlier case that was mentioned was about gangs of three or more people terrorising passers by and being part of a deliberate and organised scam. Apples and pears, I think! :-D Sorry John...........Organised nit picking by your good self again ;-)........... The title to the Telegraph piece might give you a clue :D Romanian families use Big Issue loophole Romanian families are using the Big Issue to gain access to jobs and benefits in the UK Still believing evrything you read in the newspapers, I see! :-D I'm more inclined to believe them than our politicians *-)......
John 47 Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 Well, since I was last on here I see the usual suspects are still spouting the same bigotry and using personal insult because they have no answer. Incidentally, I never called anyone from Boston a bigot - that is all in your warped imagination, onefoot. And, pelmetman, leaving the EU is not a solution it is a process. Unless you back it up with policies on how to seek out new markets to replace the loss due to trading duties being imposed, or new sources of investment to replace those multinationals who want a base insise the EU not outside it, and new jobs to replace those lost by a major shift in our economy, or proper immigration policies which should and could be in place now but won't be after leaving either because it will be the same idiots in charge - unless you do all that and more you haven't got a solution, you've got a mess. Oh, and pretending that I am a loony leftie who thinks everything in the garden is rosy won't work any more than any of the other ridiculous insults that have been tried. There is undoubtedly a problem created by unlimited immigration at a time of economic woe. There are many different ways of looking at the problem. At one extreme are those who say we are still rich by world standards and so should be more prepared to open our borders. At the other extreme are those who say if we do that then we will all end up poor and so we need to close the borders now. All are perfectly legitimate views. I tend to be closer to the former than the latter but I recognise that the majority of Brits probably tend more towards the latter. I will put my case; they will put theirs and the government will probably ignore eveything. But as long as the debate is reasoned I have no problem with it. A bigot, on the other hand, will say something like "kick out all the Muslims". He, I have problems with because it is no solution to anything, it ignores the facts and it is designed to stir up trouble rather than reach a solution.
John 47 Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-03-23 12:08 PM I'm more inclined to believe them than our politicians *-)...... I didn't know it was a choice - why believe either! (lol)
Guest pelmetman Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 John 47 - 2013-03-23 12:21 PM pelmetman - 2013-03-23 12:08 PM I'm more inclined to believe them than our politicians *-)...... I didn't know it was a choice - why believe either! (lol) We have to sort the wheat from the chaff, and in the main I find the media more truthful, although often with their own particular spin ;-).........so if you read a bit from the left wing "Guardian", and balance with a bit from right wing the "Mail".......you get a balanced view :D
Guest pelmetman Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 John 47 - 2013-03-23 12:20 PM leaving the EU is not a solution it is a process. Unless you back it up with policies on how to seek out new markets to replace the loss due to trading duties being imposed, or new sources of investment to replace those multinationals who want a base insise the EU not outside it, and new jobs to replace those lost by a major shift in our economy, or proper immigration policies which should and could be in place now but won't be after leaving either because it will be the same idiots in charge - unless you do all that and more you haven't got a solution, you've got a mess. Not the old import tariff scaremongering again *-)..............Well if we did leave we'd have a lot more cash to invest in our economy instead of us paying for other countries to take our jobs *-)
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 pelmetman - 2013-03-23 12:34 PM John 47 - 2013-03-23 12:21 PM pelmetman - 2013-03-23 12:08 PM I'm more inclined to believe them than our politicians *-)...... I didn't know it was a choice - why believe either! (lol) We have to sort the wheat from the chaff, and in the main I find the media more truthful, although often with their own particular spin ;-).........so if you read a bit from the left wing "Guardian", and balance with a bit from right wing the "Mail".......you get a balanced view :D With respect Dave, you've got it wrong yet again, the only source of valid information is John47, only problem is he hasn't got any more valid information at his disposal than you or I, but is still more than happy to ridicule pretty much everything everyone else say's. He's a plonker pure and simple, he's in sunny Spain, but can only fill up his time on here with his sole aim to try and piss people off who do not subscribe to his view of life, how pathetic is that. He has no idea's, no solutions, in short he is totally devoid of any meaningful input at all, just ignoring him is probably the very best option ;-) In the meantime perhaps John47 would be better leaving Spain and going over to Egypt to reassure the Coptic Christians there that are coming in for more and more ill treatment since the establishment of Egypt’s brand-new Islamist dictatorship, and that there is nothing to fear from Islam. As he hates bigotry so much perhaps he could go and advise his Muslim pals there to stop their blind bigotry against the Coptic Christians ;-) NO, thought not.
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