Van conversion - making it more comfortable for Winter use

[Mel B]

snowie - 2013-03-24 5:21 PM

 

Hi Mel; I'm not sure the van designers really think about what we need anyway.

If it's your first van you don't know anyway, if it's not your first then there should be no excuses.

Even if you get exactly what you THINK you want, it's not always what you thought it was going to be; is it?

We don't have any pipework or ducting outside the hab area. Our main area of discomfort is the floor. I doubt if we have any insulation between the plywood floor and the floor pan of the van. Only really an issue in the middle of the night, when it's sub-zero, and as we don't intentionally camp in arctic areas that's not often.

But still got me thinking, and I think a laminate panel over-floor, (10mm polystyrene+ floor finish) will work for winter trips. Add the tumbletwist rugs we currently use, and it should be toasty!

Now: will it be warm enough for a trip to Greetham and Oakham before Easter??

Just be aware that polystyrene is deadly in a fire and it could go powdery over time due to the constant 'squishing' as you walk on it. I would also be concerned abou the laminate squeaking and moving over time, especially with the changing 'moisture' it the air (even at home they usually have expansion strips at the edges). What about a nice bit of carpet underlay (silver backed) with a rubber backed carpet/large rug on top (they don't fray like a normal carpet) - this will keep it all nicely in situ and you can still put your rugs on top too if you want ... just an idea. :-D

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I must confess it rattles my cage this "European" vans are better than UK ones, we also had an Italian Elnagh, that was crap as well, and looked at Eddies favourite, which was OKish if it had a fork lift to get into to the bed.

They all have windows, largely the same kit, so let's put the European versus British to bed, there's good and bad in each. When the perfect one arrives, as Buddy Holly once sung, that'll be the day ay ay when I die. >:-)

 

And MelB if your reading this I unreservedly apologise for comments past, I was bang out of order.

[snowie]

Mel B - 2013-03-24 5:50 PM

 

Just be aware that polystyrene is deadly in a fire and it could go powdery over time due to the constant 'squishing' as you walk on it.

 

Point taken Mel; it would just be for winter trips, just put it in over winter. We have sheet vinyl on the floor, so putting laminate in would maybe be a step too far anyway.

We saw some really nice turkish rugs in a shop in Stratford on Avon last summer, which we liked, and would be a bit more personal, so maybe we'll stick with loose rugs,

alan b

[rupert123]

1footinthegrave - 2013-03-24 6:05 PM

 

I must confess it rattles my cage this "European" vans are better than UK ones, we also had an Italian Elnagh, that was crap as well, and looked at Eddies favourite, which was OKish if it had a fork lift to get into to the bed.

They all have windows, largely the same kit, so let's put the European versus British to bed, there's good and bad in each. When the perfect one arrives, as Buddy Holly once sung, that'll be the day ay ay when I die. >:-)

 

And MelB if your reading this I unreservedly apologise for comments past, I was bang out of order.

 

Come on Mike, if you had paid a lot of money for a euro van living on past reputation you would have to try and defend your choice.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Ha ha, yes I guess your correct. :D

[Mel B]

1footinthegrave - 2013-03-24 6:05 PM

 

And MelB if your reading this I unreservedly apologise for comments past, I was bang out of order.

 

Thank you footy, I appreciate that ... I just need to try to remember what they were! (lol)

 

I don't bear grudges especially about things I've already forgotten about ... must be turning 50 that's affecting my memory!!!! *-) :$ :D

 

Hope things are okay with you. :-D

[bolero boy]

snowie - 2013-03-24 8:37 PM

 

Mel B - 2013-03-24 5:50 PM

 

Just be aware that polystyrene is deadly in a fire and it could go powdery over time due to the constant 'squishing' as you walk on it.

 

Point taken Mel; it would just be for winter trips, just put it in over winter. We have sheet vinyl on the floor, so putting laminate in would maybe be a step too far anyway.

We saw some really nice turkish rugs in a shop in Stratford on Avon last summer, which we liked, and would be a bit more personal, so maybe we'll stick with loose rugs,

alan b

Our fitted carpets (with press studs) come in 3 sections (cab, lounge, bedroom) so was easy to use as templates for thermal underlay in 3 sections. I cut out holes for studs to poke through allowing carpet to remain secure. I also found some nice loose rugs to top everything off. Nice and warm on the feet now:

Many euro vans don't have any carpets at all so makes for cold feet at night.

We do have the electric heat on low if really cold at night, also keeps bathroom warm and water hot, just like home really. With no heat on overnight (even low) it makes that morning tea making a bit Sharp!

[Guest JudgeMental]

Yes my euro van did not have carpets (Thank God) but it did have a heated double floor so even walking around bare footed comfortable. Underfloor heating really nice in the bathroom/shower. Previous van had Alde heating with warm water underfloor heating and tha worked really well. If your going to be winter camping surely better buying the right van for the job....

[Mel B]

bolero boy - 2013-03-25 9:00 AM

 

We do have the electric heat on low if really cold at night, also keeps bathroom warm and water hot, just like home really. With no heat on overnight (even low) it makes that morning tea making a bit Sharp!

Fortunately the heater control in our van is just under hubby's side of the bed and can turn it on before he gets up as he's the one who makes the morning cuppa (got him well trained! :D ) so it doesn't take long to bring the temperature up although the dogs do refuse to get out from under the top duvet until they are absolutely cooking! (lol)

[bolero boy]

JudgeMental - 2013-03-25 9:30 AM

 

Yes my euro van did not have carpets (Thank God) but it did have a heated double floor so even walking around bare footed comfortable. Underfloor heating really nice in the bathroom/shower. Previous van had Alde heating with warm water underfloor heating and tha worked really well. If your going to be winter camping surely better buying the right van for the job....

Yes, Eddie, I agree. However not everyone necessarily understands their geographical or seasonal usage when they get into the ownership minefield.

Our first van had a bed that needed to be made up, one long trip to france and we had made our minds up to have a fixed bed with storage under. This has worked well for us and will continue with a fixed bed.

Similarly, you come to realise if your van can support you in your chosen locations and timings,

Again, we are now spending about 30 weeks a year away, with about two thirds spent over the water. That means we spend two 10 week trips in (hopefully) warmer climes and 10 weeks in the UK in one or two week chunks.

Inevitablly, some of this travel will incur low temperatures, chilly winds etc. I made a number of mods to aour van when we got it 3 years ago, in line with those MelB has mentioned. Not many UK vans (or lower priced Euro ones) have double floors or underfloor heating (certainly not an Adria Twin) and, although we remove all our carpets when off to the sunshine of Europe, we keep them in for the Spring and Autumn stuff in the UK.

There is no doubt that, for us, this makes the van more comfortable in both scenarios - horses for courses.

For our next van, i have looked extensively at A-class, double floored, fixed bed vans and love many of the differences/advantages they can bring. However, I am less enamoured with the layouts, especially the huge table, which seems to be de rigeur, and compromises the lounge and underseat storage.

Everything else aft I like.

Not everyone has the time or resourses (including financial) to change vans for different circumstances - we definitly dont all get it right 1st (or even 2nd) time.

 

[maggyd]

Mel :-D what have you started?? reading through I think people have got the impression that you arent happy with your van!!!! I dont think that is the case is it?? I dont think people realize that with any van !! you being a D.I.Y nut ;-) you would always find something or other to improve on!! as you know we havent as yet been away in our van as my O.H is also a D.I.Y nut (lol) he has been putting on the Camos crank up and is only now waiting for a decent day and a spare Son!!!! to help him lift the Solar panel on top, then hopefully we can get away (if our hospital visits will allow) you just htink one things sorted and out of the blue you get another appointment in the post (this time O.H ). :-S Oh and he has replaced the Large table with a smaller one, it is now much easier to get through to the van from the driving seats.

 

 

But Im taking notes and thinking Nothing Like Being Prepared ;-) so when all sorted and the fridge put back in place I will be going in on a night and feeling for draught spots :-) I just hope you are being overly COMFEY !! (lol) and I dont now have to start making curtains (for back door) Ive already covered the seats and altered the bedding to fit also made a fly screen.

 

Anyway at this rate summer will be here and we will be fine!! Im thinking rather than curtains for the back I might if needed make a roll and cover it attaching with velcro for that back door opening! and as my dogs are pampered (not me you understand) I know we will run the heating on low all night .

I have yet to remove the polythene off the carpets 8-) and the bed is still wrapped up!!

I have asked the question but nobody answered ! what do others do with the bed over winter ?? wrap it up again or what??

[bolero boy]

maggyd - 2013-03-25 12:45 PM

 

what do others do with the bed over winter ??

Sleep in it, of course, Maggy!

Surely, after all this 'note taking' from Mal's post, you will be spending as many winter nights away as summer? ;-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I would imagine the very worst thing you could do is wrap any soft furnishings up after being used, let it breath.

 

Our van is parked on a public car park, with all blinds open to allow the odd bit of winter sun to warm and air the van. It's ten years old now, but all the soft furnishings are as new and have never been removed or suffered from damp of mould.

Your drop vents should provide sufficient movement of air to keep things hunky dory as well.

;-)

[maggyd]

Well thats good I didnt relish the idea of having to leave it propped up all winter as I used to do with the seat cushions on our last van. :-D

[Mel B]

maggyd - 2013-03-25 12:45 PM

 

Mel :-D what have you started?? reading through I think people have got the impression that you arent happy with your van!!!! I dont think that is the case is it?? I dont think people realize that with any van !! you being a D.I.Y nut ;-) you would always find something or other to improve on!!

Oooooeeeeerrrrrrr! I hadn't thought of that Maggy! *-) Yes we are both VERY happy with our van otherwise I wouldn't want to do bits and pieces to it to get it as 'perfect' as I can. :D

 

as you know we havent as yet been away in our van as my O.H is also a D.I.Y nut (lol) he has been putting on the Camos crank up and is only now waiting for a decent day and a spare Son!!!! to help him lift the Solar panel on top, then hopefully we can get away (if our hospital visits will allow) you just htink one things sorted and out of the blue you get another appointment in the post (this time O.H ). :-S Oh and he has replaced the Large table with a smaller one, it is now much easier to get through to the van from the driving seats.

 

But Im taking notes and thinking Nothing Like Being Prepared ;-) so when all sorted and the fridge put back in place I will be going in on a night and feeling for draught spots :-) I just hope you are being overly COMFEY !! (lol) and I dont now have to start making curtains (for back door) Ive already covered the seats and altered the bedding to fit also made a fly screen.

 

Anyway at this rate summer will be here and we will be fine!! Im thinking rather than curtains for the back I might if needed make a roll and cover it attaching with velcro for that back door opening! and as my dogs are pampered (not me you understand) I know we will run the heating on low all night .

I have yet to remove the polythene off the carpets 8-) and the bed is still wrapped up!!

I have asked the question but nobody answered ! what do others do with the bed over winter ?? wrap it up again or what??

With your van as you'll only have to make narrower curtains as your washroom partially blocks the nearside rear door, so I would suggest you visit a charity shop or two and see what they have that is already made up and then do what I have and use an expanding curtain pole/shower rail (see picture) to hang them on - in fact you might find that just one curtain across the rear doors will be enough for your needs. That way you can easily remove it when you don't want it up and will be much easier to do than make a roll I would think, and it could then be left in situ during the day without you having to store it elsewhere.

 

One thing I will have to do soon though whilst the cold/windy weather is still here is to track down the stupid draught from the roof vent over the bed before we go away to Peterborough show ... no way am I having that chilling me down overnight ... I appreciate the need for ventilation but it is plain stupid to have so much directly over the flipping bed! 8-) . But this isn't a 'fault' as such and is something that our other fixed bed motorhomes had too with their overbed roof vents, and probably most other motorhomes do too.

 

We've pretty much decided to put a fixed gas tank on our van so are hoping to get that sorted at Peterborough (quoted a very good price by one of the companies there). I am now looking into either having an additional alarm/system upgrade of some sort to enable us to have twin remote control fobs for the doors etc or instead get a second remote fob from Fiat, but as the latter is just about as much money as the former I'm undecided which to go for at present! :-S

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

One source of a hell of a cold draught on our van was / is the mushroom vent in the shower/loo, a wrap of cling film on the inside does the job on that as and when required. Also well worth checking out that the fridge is room sealed, it should be, but many are not for ease of removal I guess for servicing. A careful bit of masking tape on fridge and wood surround, then a small bead of clear silicone does the job. ;-)

[Mel B]

There's one heck of a draught from underneath the fridge housing unit where there is a cut-out about 6 inches by half and inch wide where it meets the floor with a large drop out vent behind it ... there's also a smaller circular drop-out vent in the bottom of the kitchen cupboard, about 2 inches in diameter. Again, I know there is a need for safety but I think they've got really over the top with the ventilation etc especially since there are other ventilation/drop out points too!!! *-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Mel B - 2013-03-26 12:22 AM

 

There's one heck of a draught from underneath the fridge housing unit where there is a cut-out about 6 inches by half and inch wide where it meets the floor with a large drop out vent behind it ... there's also a smaller circular drop-out vent in the bottom of the kitchen cupboard, about 2 inches in diameter. Again, I know there is a need for safety but I think they've got really over the top with the ventilation etc especially since there are other ventilation/drop out points too!!! *-)

 

Ah those immortal words, elf an safety.

But before anyone comes gunning for me, it's gas,it's heavier than air, non the less with our van as I said the drop vent behind the fridge, and the outside fridge air vents, were causing a hell of a lot of cold air to come in to the van around and at the bottom of the fridge, it really needs to be room sealed, so get that mastic gun out. ;-) made a major difference to ours.

[blackfingers]

Interesting and helpful thread as we've also been battling the draughts recently too.

 

One thing puzzles me: if you use no heating overnight, then surely the temperature inside the van must eventually drop to the same as the ambient temperature outside?

 

If it's minus 5 outside, how can it be any warmer inside (give a degree or two) in the morning?

 

IanL. :'(

[bolero boy]

I am getting a fridge draught fixed this week. All fridges can be 'room sealed' if correctly installed. There is a hole in the panelwork to allow the rear of the fridge to slide back into. This hole should have insulation around the edges which performs two functions - 1) to keep out draughts and 2) to stop any fumes being sucked back into the habitation area as the 'chimney' for the fridge burner lives between the nack of the fridge and the outside wall of the van.

Tinkering around with draught excluder and mastic to stifle draughts from a poorly fitted fridge is not curing the problem, only the symptoms.

We had a new Thetford fridge/freezer fitted under warrenty a fortnight ago and on our first trip out we quickly realised that there was a really cold draught. I thought best to sort the issue at source rather than mess about with tape and gunk.

 

Mel, why not ask your dealer about the amount of air coming in through the roof vent to get an idea about what's normal or acceptable? As it's a new van, they should be only too glad to help you resolve this one.

What size tank are you gas thinking of getting and will you be able to free up some locker space?

[bolero boy]

blackfingers - 2013-03-26 9:47 AM

 

Interesting and helpful thread as we've also been battling the draughts recently too.

 

One thing puzzles me: if you use no heating overnight, then surely the temperature inside the van must eventually drop to the same as the ambient temperature outside?

 

If it's minus 5 outside, how can it be any warmer inside (give a degree or two) in the morning?

 

IanL. :'(

This is always an interesting one - my wife is definitely 'hot' B-) ;-) and does not like the heating on too much while I tend to prefer some back ground heat.

At night we invariable turn the heating off (or very.................low) when retiring but I will turn it on (a little higher) if i wake up in the night.

Yes, it can be really snug in bed under the duvet (wife) but bloody chilly for the 7:30 tea maker (me!) so I prefer to have the van warming gently.

We think that, after 4 years with MHs that we are fairly competent with the Truma Combi and, unless really cold, the electric option gives sufficient background warmth.

We also carry an oil-filled radiator and electric 2kw fan heater but dont often use them.

[Muswell]

blackfingers - 2013-03-26 9:47 AM

 

Interesting and helpful thread as we've also been battling the draughts recently too.

 

One thing puzzles me: if you use no heating overnight, then surely the temperature inside the van must eventually drop to the same as the ambient temperature outside?

 

If it's minus 5 outside, how can it be any warmer inside (give a degree or two) in the morning?

 

IanL. :'(

 

I think a man lying down produces about 70 watts so there is a certain amount of heating going on from the occupants. On the other hand the upward-looking surfaces of the van will radiate heat to the night sky, especially if it is clear, and can drop below ambient; this is why you get frost on some parts of your vehicle and not others. So the answer is...it all depends :-D

[Robinhood]

Viz a viz the draught from the rooflight over the bed.

 

I believe the Accent has a Heki of one form or another in this location?

 

If so, most converters fit the version with permanent ventilation (i.e. it has no seal, or a seal that does not actually completely "seal").

 

It may well be possible to fit the version of the seal which has no permanent ventilation, thereby solving your problem (though the manufacturer's part is not particularly cheap, it is usually very effective).

 

I have mini-hekis in my 'van, which came with no seal, the most annoying aspect of these being the amount of crud they allowed to enter through the rooflight in windy conditions, whilst the 'van was laid-up. Accordingly, I purchased two seals and fitted them (rather fiddly on a mini-heki), the result being a pretty good seal, and no draughts or dust-ingress.

 

Whilst converters normally fit high-level ventilation for a reason, I find there is normally sufficient unintended ventilation to overcome the effects of plugging it, and anyway the only non-room-sealed appliances we run are the oven/hob, which are used with a roof-vent open.

 

Having also sealed my fridge myself, I now find my current van is the most draught-proof I've ever owned.

 

This last weekend we had three nights away in freezing conditions, with only the water heating left on overnight, and the standard single 9 or 6.5 tog duvets in use; warm as toast! (though a little cold getting up first thing in the morning).

 

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

We have external and internal temperature sensors, if we have no heating on at all the temp variation between inside and outside in the early hours before any influence of the sun is only about 4 degrees, yes of course body heat accounts for about 50 watts I'm told, but in our experience that means freezing your wotsits off in the early hours with no heating at all on. I believe the OP has two dogs under her Duvet, so that could be another 100 watts. But it still sounds pretty optimistic to keep a van warm overnight with 150 / 200 watts of body heat alone in sub zero temperatures, but we are cold arses, I only take my long johns off around July :D :D

 

Mind you the missus used to get bloody hot in the van when she was menopausal, now she's as cold as a fish. :D and don't smell much better either. :$

[maggyd]

I dont think we will have the fridge draught problem as our hasnt the outside vents! our last van we bought the winter covers for the outside which were very effective as long as you remember to remove them in the summer.

We fully intend to go to VanBlitz and get one of their alarms fitted even though we have the imobolizer and 5 years on the Tracker Elert, one of the reasons as you have said Mel you get a couple of sets of keys with it and the alarm fob on one set, like you we were only given one set of keys with the ignition on, We had the Van Blitz on the last van and O.H was very impressed with it, he has inquired about others but he is still set on VB.

 

Your right about the one curtain needed for the back and I could quite easily fit one :-S but someone else !!!! yes you know who has said " not needed"" We will see!! I can see me rolling a bath towel up and taping it over if we do have problems!! there is nothing worse than a draught. in the winter I probably will be glad of it in the summer . I cant help with the heki draught Im afraid unless you can gaffer tape over the grills but that might mark so not a good idea in the inside.!!