snowie Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-04-21 5:50 PM ips - 2013-04-21 11:41 AM Allways amazes me were some truckers park up ! As for truckers my guess is given they all have tachographs that determine they have to stop to comply with the law, so it's difficult to see they would "get done" wherever they stop within reason, and given the very poor provision for truck stopovers in the UK ............ ( Well on the A46 between Newark and Lincoln there are "Truck Rest Stops' on both sides of the carriageway, very good and look perfect for a bit of MH use overnight. Not sure how safe you would feel, tho'. I bet there are loads of similar lay-bys for truckers use nationwide; can't all be full every night. With a bit of investment and lateral/joined-up thinking we might have a network. Until they end up in a disgusting state and lose their attractiveness. One day maybe common sense will be standard issue? Live in hope alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Some years ago we met an elderly couple in a rudimentary home-made conversion with a bulkhead behind the cab and only one window on the n/s. They said they went out as much as they could and generally slept in laybys. They had a life sized inflatable doll with a woolly hat, no sniggering in the back please, which they placed in the driver's seat so anyone passing by would think it was just someone sitting in his van for a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Some general observations: I've visited Gower and The Gower Peninsula. It's a nice place and doesn't care if you correctly refer to it by either name. I can see why many Local Authorities and Councils resist motorhomes. The visual, sometimes audible blight - and aftermath - are not desirable from their perspective. Neither are the space requirements or the burden of waste disposal. The culture of the UK population is different to France. We are culturally aggressive, territorial, resentful and selfish. We are also comparatively densely populated. This culture and a premium on space does not lend itself well to accommodating large white 'vans full of potentially noisy 'alternative lifestylers' who are disrespectful to their neighbours and the wider environment. It's not all roses in France. Many places now ban camping car 'parking' and some aires are no better than the (state provided formal) gipsy camps. Height barriers do not discriminate against people with disabilities. Indeed the state generally is very accommodating and generous with its motability scheme and provision of dedicated parking spaces. It is personal choice to use a vehicle too tall to fit under height barriers. Vehicles specifically converted to transport wheelchair users will, as far as I am aware, fit under height barriers everywhere. The advice to involve Visit Britain is good, and one I've previously advocated. It is within their statutory remit to increase and enhance tourism / tourist opportunities. Indeed it is possible and highly desirable in my view to spontaneously travel in the UK by motorhome. I now have a database of hundreds of perfectly legal peaceful spots, mainly in the middle of nowhere, that allow first hand access to what's left of our natural world. No forward planning required, just an eye for a map and a bit of respect for residents and the wider environment. We do the same wherever (even in Slovenia (where we've never had one seconds bother overnighting off formal sites)). Obtaining water and responsibly disposing of waste without relying on formal sites is generally quite straightforward. I kind of get the desirability of people who gravitate towards human culture to park somewhere safe and close to towns and villages but there are zillions throughout the UK where you can do just that and it's not easily possible to park within striking distance of many French towns and villages. Agreed it's much easier to 'motorhome' in France but it's not as hard as some make out in the UK, and there are worse countries than here too - try Austria or Switzerland for eg - especially if you prefer to be alone and not use formal facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 crinklystarfish - 2013-04-22 9:00 AM Some general observations: I've visited Gower and The Gower Peninsula. It's a nice place and doesn't care if you correctly refer to it by either name. I can see why many Local Authorities and Councils resist motorhomes. The visual, sometimes audible blight - and aftermath - are not desirable from their perspective. Neither are the space requirements or the burden of waste disposal. The culture of the UK population is different to France. We are culturally aggressive, territorial, resentful and selfish. We are also comparatively densely populated. This culture and a premium on space does not lend itself well to accommodating large white 'vans full of potentially noisy 'alternative lifestylers' who are disrespectful to their neighbours and the wider environment. It's not all roses in France. Many places now ban camping car 'parking' and some aires are no better than the (state provided formal) gipsy camps. Height barriers do not discriminate against people with disabilities. Indeed the state generally is very accommodating and generous with its motability scheme and provision of dedicated parking spaces. It is personal choice to use a vehicle too tall to fit under height barriers. Vehicles specifically converted to transport wheelchair users will, as far as I am aware, fit under height barriers everywhere. The advice to involve Visit Britain is good, and one I've previously advocated. It is within their statutory remit to increase and enhance tourism / tourist opportunities. Indeed it is possible and highly desirable in my view to spontaneously travel in the UK by motorhome. I now have a database of hundreds of perfectly legal peaceful spots, mainly in the middle of nowhere, that allow first hand access to what's left of our natural world. No forward planning required, just an eye for a map and a bit of respect for residents and the wider environment. We do the same wherever (even in Slovenia (where we've never had one seconds bother overnighting off formal sites)). Obtaining water and responsibly disposing of waste without relying on formal sites is generally quite straightforward. I kind of get the desirability of people who gravitate towards human culture to park somewhere safe and close to towns and villages but there are zillions throughout the UK where you can do just that and it's not easily possible to park within striking distance of many French towns and villages. Agreed it's much easier to 'motorhome' in France but it's not as hard as some make out in the UK, and there are worse countries than here too - try Austria or Switzerland for eg - especially if you prefer to be alone and not use formal facilities. A bit of a sweeping statement is us all being selfish, I'm sure you don't include yourself in that statement, so come on share your database of hundreds or is it zillions of perfectly legal peaceful spots in the UK :-S I must say as it refers to Motor home users in general, your sentiments would be better described as that of a narrow minded local councilor,not someone who shares our hobby and enjoyment. As for worse countries than the UK , there are many of course,that's why folk don't in the main visit them, I say again play spot the foreign van, or a French one in particular in the UK the next time you're out and about,and yet they are only 26 miles away :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 crinklystarfish - 2013-04-22 9:00 AM Some general observations: I can see why many Local Authorities and Councils resist motorhomes. The visual, sometimes audible blight - and aftermath - are not desirable from their perspective. Neither are the space requirements or the burden of waste disposal. The culture of the UK population is different to France. We are culturally aggressive, territorial, resentful and selfish. We are also comparatively densely populated. This culture and a premium on space does not lend itself well to accommodating large white 'vans full of potentially noisy 'alternative lifestylers' who are disrespectful to their neighbours and the wider environment. It's not all roses in France. Many places now ban camping car 'parking' and some aires are no better than the (state provided formal) gipsy camps. Height barriers do not discriminate against people with disabilities. Indeed the state generally is very accommodating and generous with its motability scheme and provision of dedicated parking spaces. It is personal choice to use a vehicle too tall to fit under height barriers. Vehicles specifically converted to transport wheelchair users will, as far as I am aware, fit under height barriers everywhere. . Hi Crinkles, I agree with much of what you say, to an extent, para 1 I think sums up most of the negative justifications for doing as little as possible. para 2 is I think OTT, most European countries have citizens who are all that you say the UK population is, and our relations with Europe indicate this pretty consistently. UK and Holland and Belgium are similarly densely populated, and I think it is noticeable. I'm not sure the colour or size of the van makes a difference? and whether motorhomers' lifestyles are really that alternative, well I'd have to think about that a little more. Disrespect for neighbours and the wider environment is fundamental, IMHO, and applies as much to static communities as transient ones. para 3& 4; our experience of gipsy encampments at roundabouts and in and around towns in France would indicate that France has a problem, and supermarkets seem to be trying to protect their carparks, and the general public by the use of height barriers; motorhomes are affected. Let's hope we can all become more tolerant towards oneanother, regards alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Of course it's a sweeping generalisation Footster and there are millions of perfectly selfless people in the UK. I was referring to general cultural trait, not individuals. L/As and Councils, as you know from your contribution to yours, are moved to act in accordance with all within their charge and that includes their residents, many of whom are clearly, and justifiably in many instances, opposed to a temporary 'encampment'. It has to be faced, many motorhomers are prone to cause visual, noise and waste nuisance and we have to accept that some communities will resist that. Arguably they are right to do so. I've witnessed 'vans myself with radios blaring, bbqs set up, dogs wandering at will etc and who in their right minds would want their own community 'violating' in such a manner. I'm all for the spontaneity and freedom of parking / overnighting off formal sites but think it comes with responsibilities, responsibilities sadly lacking in many of out very own user group. Heavens, we can't even rub along together on formal sites without upsetting other campers - witness the constant carping about dogs, kids, speed, TVs, trailing electrical cables, parking, noseyness... If we irritate each other so much, why is it any surprise that we'd irritate local residents who will have paid handsomely to their local authority in council tax precept to defend and represent their interest. Of course, I wish it wasn't this way, but it is. Our national culture does not currently lend itself to accommodating transient groups of casually parked motorhomes. L/A truck-stops are dwindling because residents are fed up of noise, disruption, human crap, and the omnipresent smell of urine. Height barriers are appearing for the same reason... We are not an attractive user group once off our formal sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Well after reading your post my van has gone on Ebay. :-( I must have been imagining the very many nice and considerate folk we have met in our (mainly French) travels. Of course not everyone is perfect, one only has to open ones eyes to see we are drowning in litter in the UK, our roadside verges are a disgrace, but I do object when we as a group seem to be the only ones targeted as being irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-04-22 1:02 PM Well after reading your post my van has gone on Ebay. :-( . BS :D Just move nearer a channel port..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-04-22 1:26 PM 1footinthegrave - 2013-04-22 1:02 PM Well after reading your post my van has gone on Ebay. :-( . BS :D Just move nearer a channel port..... If only, and I wonder if Henry would as well. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-04-22 1:02 PM Well after reading your post my van has gone on Ebay. :-( ...one only has to open ones eyes to see we are drowning in litter in the UK, our roadside verges are a disgrace, but I do object when we as a group seem to be the only ones targeted as being irresponsible. And therein lies the crux, decent and reasonable people lament the fact that we are circling the plughole in a social sense and rightly wish to see an improvement in basic human decency. Local Authorities can't bring that about, but they can play at it by blunt-instrument bans to appease the very public that funds them. We need to go about our business of motorhoming discreetly and respectfully if we ever hope to be accepted as a benign entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 crinklystarfish - 2013-04-22 8:06 PM We need to go about our business of motorhoming discreetly and respectfully if we ever hope to be accepted as a benign entity. Can't see myself as a benign entity somehow :D............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 We live in a tourist hotpot in Wales, directly opposite a car park that is a magnet for Motor homes, this last weekend there were non, but as ever the car park was covered in discarded rubbish, and yet there are no proposed bans on cars parking. Add in the usual increase of dog poo,or discarded dog poo bags everywhere, yet no proposals to tackle that either. But more and more its our fault and we are public enemy. Number 1. >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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