Speed linits! Who actually gives a f$%£K?????

[Clive]

The Hummer has not got the turning circle or the handling of a Range Rover and its actually quite a slow lethargic vehicle. Mind you, parking one,s own Phantom Jet on the front lawn is a bit swish. Like Clarky - my hero. Sorry but I cannot take the debate about speeding seriously. Think on this, if we all drove at twice our normal speed we would all get to our destinations in half the time and the roads would only be half as congested ??? Making it easier to drive faster!!!! Has Gootler got a picture for this? Anyone seen our mopeds yet? C.

[Don Madge]

[QUOTE]Clive - 2006-08-01 4:23 PM Anyone seen our mopeds yet? C. [/QUOTE] Clive, Only sad people with anoracks ride mopeds :-D Can I have a ride at Malvern (?) Don

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]enrico - 2006-08-01 2:45 PM Brian I agree with you,you should be able to use your common sense and drive at a speed that fits the road conditions etc. but there is a problem with that. Take 1 example only.If everyone has common sense and uses it why do people insist on driving in lanes2/3 and 4 on motorways when lane 1 is virtually empty. With people like this surely we can understand why we have set laws,eg speed limits.Blame these idiots,not the government(I can`t believe I`ve just said that)!! [/QUOTE]

Enrico

I think what I was really saying was that using judgement, instead of relying on what a speedometer says, is a far safer way to drive overall.  I didn't actually refer to common sense.  Comon sense is, in fact, a very uncommon commodity, as your example amply demonstrates.  However, I was assuming that all who contribute to this forum will have that rarest commodity in spades!  Any lane on a motorway can be safe or dangerous, at any time, at any speed.  It all depends on road conditions.

Hogging an outer lane is reprehensible, but unless you actually obstruct a plod in free flight, you'll probably never get nicked for it.  However, it does aggravate many other drivers, especially when done at less than 60mph, so the poor old truck drivers can't overtake because they aren't allowed into the right hand lane.  It is inconsiderate, it is aggravating, it may be a sign of incompetence, even arrogance, it probably contributes to numerous accidents, it seems to indicate someone who isn't paying proper attention; however, it may just be one of those inviterate wind up merchants who enjoy irritating others.  Haven't you met the ones who speed up as soon as the road ahead is clear, but then slow down again as soon as they catch up the next "bunch" with other lanes occupied?

The problem is that all kinds and walks of people, of all ages and abilities, in all states of alertness, in most degrees of (in)sanity, in all kinds of vehicles, in all grades of condition, can legally (mostly) use the roads.  Speed limits are necessary to protect the inattentive, the incompetent, the infirm, the inexperienced, the downright stupid, and those whose vehicles are past their prime, from their own worst excesses.  We superheroes don't really need them at all!

[enrico]

Brian I can`t disagree with that.Obviously lots of people don`t have good judgement. I agree with moms last comments except we should all have to retake a driving test every 3 years or so,both on minor,major and motorways.We will have a loads more room on our roads then (!) (!) (!)

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]mom - 2006-08-01 2:31 PM ...............The one thing I would like to stress, and you have already covered most of it, is that there is a direct relationship between speed and injury level..............the opportunity to live to tell the tale is greatly enhanced at lower speeds,....................Let's get everyone back into the classroom, at least occasionally........ Many learn their long term driving habits after they have passed their test and first hit the general driving population alone.  ..............[/QUOTE]

However, I still maintain that it is not speed per se that is the culprit.  You are absolutely right that it is better to have a slow speed accident than a high speed one, but better still by far not to have one at all.  Trouble is, we are not really "designed" for speeds much over 25mph, and even bump into each other walking at around 3mph!  The faster we go, the further we depart from our natural environment and the more we need training to handle the differences in perceptions that higher speeds bring.  Motorsport drivers and police persuit drivers demonstrate (to some extent) what can be done with proper training.  However, I bet even Michael Schumacher will have slowed down by the time he reaches 80 years old (assuming!).

Whatever speed limits we impose, they will always be too slow for some and too fast for others.  However, I really don't think they really make our roads any safer.  Most accidents take place in towns where speeds are, generally, below 30mph.  It is our own fallibility (impatience and inattention) that causes the accidents, and being attentive and alert is our best defence against accident at any speed.

When 70mph limits were first introduced on motorways there was a furious debate over their wisdom.  Many, me included, said that the introduction of a maximum limit would merely encourage most to drive up to the limit, resulting in high speed bunches developing, within which everyone would be too close the the vehicles around them.  QED!  The alternative view was that unlimited speeds would open out the traffic, so preventing bunches, while the presence of vehicles travelling a much higher speeds would keep everyone on their toes and alert.  We'll never know of course, and speed limits are now the norm throughout Europe and even on selected autobahns in Germany.  UK motorway traffic densities are mostly far too high, most of the time, for almost any speed above 60mph.  However, it might be interesting to try variable limits above, as well as below, 70mph when traffic is light.  With light traffic and today's cars, speeds over 70mph are easily attainable with no sensible increase in danger.

Training: well, I believe the UK test is now one of the easiest in Europe, so a bit more classroom time probably wouldn't hurt.  The great practical difficulty is that driving is done on the road, and not in the classroom.  The "apprentice" driver initial qualification is excellent, but the driver still has to learn "on the job".  It is difficult to teach what experience teaches, because until one has the experience, words and diagrams have no meaning.  Knowing whether a car has enough power to overtake going uphill, even sensing when the road is going uphill, do take time to learn.  Saying don't do this, and explaining the dangers, will generally get agreement from the novice driver, but it won't stop him/her doing it, because they won't recognise the signs of a car that hasn't enough in reserve.  If they're lucky all they'll get is a fright, but then they'll know! 

You pass your test, and then you start to learn to drive; not the other way round and, dangerous as that is, I can't see how we can eliminate the risks inexperienced drivers run as they learn.  However, unless we are all to be limited to 15-20mph everywhere and drive rubber cars, I still don't really think speed limits overall have much to contribute either way to safety of the novice driver.

We need them, they have to be enforced, but they don't make us safe.  Only we can do that.  Bit pious, that, don't you think!

[colin]

A couple of local towns have 20mph limits to make them safer, trouble is council puts 20mph signs right on exit of miniroundabouts, so you are looking for other trafic turn onto road and unbeknow to you are in 20 limit. At our nearest town nobody I spoke to knew of 20 limit till a large amount of people where caught speeding. Local council said they where disapointed so few people kept to limit, muppets.

[Dave Newell]

I understand Brian's point about speed in itself not being the problem but when I'm already travelling at (or very near to) the speed limit I find it difficult to understand why people feel the need to overtake at all, especially as they can't do so without ecxeding the speed limit! As for the copper, well my flabber has never been so ghasted that someone who should be leading by example made such a dangerous manouvre. One of the other cars that overtook me in a 30MPH limit had to swerve back in before he'd fully passed me because he hadn't spotted the Volvo car parked on the other side of the road! speed, either high or low, in itself doesn't cause accidents. Inattentive, ignorant, innebriated, impatient, lazy, selfish gits behind the wheel do! Higher speed however does mean that when these morons do find someone to run into the damage and injury level is raised. D.

[michele]

Dave , Quite agree he should no better being a cop does not put him above the law what an idiot...when he has what's termed a POLAC he would blame the other person probably.....

[enrico]

These so called selfish gits are exactly that,only interested in themselves,not you or me.This is unfortunately why we have to have so many (what we may consider)silly laws in abundance just to try to keep these gits under control.Still obviously doesn`t work as Daves thread so aptly shows. Still,we will have to live with it. >:-) >:-) >:-)

[Brian Kirby]

I'm a Dalek.  Exterminate, exterminate.  :-)

[Dave Newell]

Come on now Brian, a Cyber Man surely? D. (lol)

[Brian Kirby]

Nah.  Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!