Guest JudgeMental Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Yes I have seen the Brevio in Germany from £37,000. The channel the most expensive streach of water anywhere... Welcome to treasure Island! An automatic ten grand premium added for a 30 minute tunnel crossing... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Retread24800 - 2013-05-03 11:38 AM A quick look at the A/S website gives the Symbol, same outside dims but with your preferred layout Not quite - the Symbol is on the swb 5400 cm van and the large double or two single beds make up across the sliding door! If you want a double you need to carry the extra cushions which eat into the already limited storage space. If you opt for the singles and leave the extra cushions at home you get the two very narrow and non too comfortable to sleep on multi cushioned single beds - I know 'cos I used to have one - briefly - very briefly in 2004! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Tracker - 2013-05-03 1:46 PM ! If you want a double you need to carry the extra cushions which eat into the already limited storage space. If you opt for the singles and leave the extra cushions at home you get the two very narrow and non too comfortable to sleep on multi cushioned single beds - I know 'cos I used to have one - briefly - very briefly in 2004! Ah the joy of blending in with the builders vans......................:-) drafts, negligible insulation and no storage space. Plus a premium price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Retread24800 - 2013-05-03 1:10 PMTracker - 2013-05-03 1:46 PM ! If you want a double you need to carry the extra cushions which eat into the already limited storage space. If you opt for the singles and leave the extra cushions at home you get the two very narrow and non too comfortable to sleep on multi cushioned single beds - I know 'cos I used to have one - briefly - very briefly in 2004!Ah the joy of blending in with the builders vans......................:-) drafts, negligible insulation and no storage space. Plus a premium price! there are no drafts in our van.Its really more about swift and enjoyable driving and easy parking, plus ease of ownership, not all about space. We always have a large comfortable bed as that is non negotiable. Insulation decent enough these days also..... As for prices they are far more reasonable in Europe along with everything else.6 members have gone over to panel vans in this thread alone, so there is no denying they are catching on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Retread24800 - 2013-05-03 1:10 PMAh the joy of blending in with the builders vans......................:-) drafts, negligible insulation and no storage space. Plus a premium price! Premium price yes, draughts - I don't think many owners have this issue and when they do it is as often as not poor door adjustment or holes drilled by the converter for is laughingly known as 'positive ventilation'!I still think coachbuilts offer far better vfm and easier camping generally but our camping style and use has changed in recent years and an easier (mainly for Mrs T) to drive van capable of covering distance in greater and smoother comfort suits us better now. As we only generally now camp from Spring to late Autumn insulation is far less of an issue for us either.But for the many I can still see the benefits of a coachbuilt especially for longer term and winter use.Also bear in mind that a current pvc of 6. mtr or more is now as long and almost as wide as the last generation of coachbuilts, albeit with less storage due to the body style and shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Jthere are no drafts in our van.Its really more about swift and enjoyable driving and easy parking, plus ease of ownership, not all about space. We always have a large comfortable bed as that is non negotiable. Insulation decent enough these days also..... As for prices they are far more reasonable in Europe along with everything else.6 members have gone over to panel vans in this thread alone, so there is no denying they are catching on... You do not have to sacrifice space for an enjoyable driving experience, the vans I quoted earlier are all under 6m long and the Burstner is only 2.1 wide as slim as your panel van. If you need a trully compact van with 4 berths and 4 seats and must have a pvc then how about the Campereve Neovan? Bet this wasn't included in the giant ;-) test. Cannot understand why the UK industry is so behind the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Agree that uk manufactures are behind the times. None as far as we can see produce a coach built with drop down front bed as well as fixed rear bed, unlike almost all other European manufactures. Regarding the trend to tin cans, sorry panel van conversions, then not much evidence here in France of that, indeed trend is if anything towards larger vans with island rear beds and proper living space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 We have a "proper" living space...a 4 bed detached house. Also a "proper" camping car for travelling. The CB misery's out in force as per usual on a panel van thread..,.Why 2 of you need a 6 berth camper, none of my business, fine, get on with it...That you dont "get" camping in panel vans, equally fine, But dont try telling me sitting on a deserted aire in miserable weather in France (most miserable and expensive country in the EU) is in any way a holiday!lol:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Perhaps we can all return to commenting on the merits or otherwise of the great PVC V CB saga without the need for commenting on the owners - who are a bloody funny lot whichever way their tendencies swing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Retread24800 - 2013-05-03 3:02 PMJthere are no drafts in our van.Its really more about swift and enjoyable driving and easy parking, plus ease of ownership, not all about space. We always have a large comfortable bed as that is non negotiable. Insulation decent enough these days also..... As for prices they are far more reasonable in Europe along with everything else.6 members have gone over to panel vans in this thread alone, so there is no denying they are catching on... You do not have to sacrifice space for an enjoyable driving experience, the vans I quoted earlier are all under 6m long and the Burstner is only 2.1 wide as slim as your panel van. If you need a trully compact van with 4 berths and 4 seats and must have a pvc then how about the Campereve Neovan? Bet this wasn't included in the giant ;-) test. Cannot understand why the UK industry is so behind the times. But thats not new... plenty of similar German vans with drop down beds, from the likes of La Strada, Possl, Adria, Concorde, Westphalia etc....I dont in anyway see a panel van as a 4 berth vehicle. Great for one and just about OK for 2 (that some cant envisage living in a small space I quite understand) There is simply not the room for four to live inside... Truly bonkers. Our teenagers fly over and join us in the summer, and while we travel around in van they sleep in tent outside. Surely the of the main attractions of a tin box is getting away from the myriad of problems associated with maintaining a CB :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Tracker - 2013-05-03 4:40 PM Perhaps we can all return to commenting on the merits or otherwise of the great PVC V CB saga without the need for commenting on the owners - who are a bloody funny lot whichever way their tendencies swing! one side have never done it and dont "get it". The other side have changed and have the benefit of experience as have done both, and seem perfectly happy (with one very odd exception:-D) Really there are no wrong ways - just different means to same ends. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-05-03 4:28 PM We have a "proper" living space...a 4 bed detached house. Also a "proper" camping car for travelling. The CB misery's out in force as per usual on a panel van thread..,.Why 2 of you need a 6 berth camper, none of my business, fine, get on with it...That you dont "get" camping in panel vans, equally fine, But dont try telling me sitting on a deserted aire in miserable weather in France (most miserable and expensive country in the EU) is in any way a holiday!lol:D Amazing how those who have owned a couple of vans, motorhomed for five or six years and visited 4 or 5 countries know all about everything. We have owned motor homes for going on 30 years, visited a lot of Europe and owned everything from pop up roof campers and panel van conversions through to coahbuilts of various designs and size. From all of this we have concluded that for us the best solution is a decent sized coach built touring and staying on Aires in France. Great that you like your panel van, but to say this is the correct or only way to go is not right. Nor can you have it both ways on Aires. Previously you said they were crowded car parks now they are deserted. Weather here in the Lot is in fact warm and sunny and why you think France is miserable country we do not know, we and many others do not find it so. Yes some things are expensive but if we ever get to stage of having to worry about each euro we will pack in and stay home That said enjoy the bank holiday at home as understand even London might be sunny!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughman Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Well, we're about to switch from a monster Burstner coachbuilt (8.2m long, 5 tonne, 3 axle) to a Possl PVC with 2 fixed single beds (convertible to double), 6.3m long and with a 505kg payload. I reckon the speed, general nippiness, & neat and well thought-out layout of the Possl will outweigh the extra space (good) and unwieldiness (bad, if you do a fair mileage across varied terrain, as we do) of the Burstner. We may regret it it, but I doubt it :-D Going over to Germany on Monday for 3 days to collect and come back. . :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Retread24800 - 2013-05-03 1:10 PMTracker - 2013-05-03 1:46 PM ! If you want a double you need to carry the extra cushions which eat into the already limited storage space. If you opt for the singles and leave the extra cushions at home you get the two very narrow and non too comfortable to sleep on multi cushioned single beds - I know 'cos I used to have one - briefly - very briefly in 2004!Ah the joy of blending in with the builders vans......................:-) drafts, negligible insulation and no storage space. Plus a premium price! Wrong! The insulation is as good as, or possibly better, than our previous coachbuilts! I've now sorted out the draughts (except the omitted seal on the front roof vent which I've still to do). We've got loads of storage space in our PVC so we've got most of the stuff out of our coachbuilt in it, only leaving out a few bits that we rarely, if ever, used, and have plenty of space left - in fact one of the under bed lockers is completely empty and the one under the front dinette seat doesn't have much in either, plus the overcab storage only has a couple of rucksacks in at present. We've already got the 2 inflatable canoes, paddles, life jackets, pump, watertight barrel etc in, and our 2 folding bikes, towels, spare sheets, packet and tinned food, beer, pans, crockery etc, etc, etc in the van, just some clothes, fresh food, fridge stuff, camera, laptop and the like to put in so we'll still have space to spare ... if we find some car boot sales (or whatever the German equivalent is) at least we'll have somewhere to put our 'treasures'! Whilst our previous Chausson Flash 04 had a large garage I must say we haven't missed it as there is still a lot of storage space in our particular PVC - one thing we made sure about when we bought it as well as it having a decent payload of over 500kg. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Save your breath Mel...Anyway has anyone seen this article re vans yet, I popped into a newsagent this week but no mag......So pray tell what's the haps? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-05-04 7:00 AM Save your breath Mel...Anyway has anyone seen this article re vans yet, I popped into a newsagent this week but no mag......So pray tell what's the haps? :-D The PVC grope-test is published in the June 2013 issue of "Which Motorhome" that (as Lucie Cranfield said in her original posting) will be on sale on 9th May (next Thursday). She also provided a link to the downlovable version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Morning all, I have read the roadtest, it comes free with certain issues of MMM. The globecar has just about pipped to win. interesting if your due for change, as I am The continentals are so much more innovative I regret to say, just like the campereve mentioned above. So many converters just follw on with tyhe herd. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 goldi - 2013-05-04 10:30 AM I have read the roadtest, it comes free with certain issues of MMM. The globecar has just about pipped to win. interesting if your due for change, as I am The continentals are so much more innovative I regret to say, just like the campereve mentioned above. So many converters just follow on with the herd. As UK makers build generally for the UK market only and do not generally export LHD units one can assume that their models are designed to suit the style that most UK campers prefer rather than the mainland European makers whose style seems to mainly revolve around variations of a fixed bed which their main markets in Germany and France appear to prefer - or do they just not get the choice that we do? We looked at some of these 'innovative' vans at Peterborough and whilst some features seem like good ideas, others particularly in the kitchen and bathroom areas were dreadfully impractical. Different is not always better - and what looks good in the showroom can turn out to be a pain in the bum in the real world of living in it, whereas tried and tested generally works well? I have no idea whose PVCs sell best in the UK - but I would suggest that it is the conversions best suited to UK tastes? Meanwhile I am happy for the exponents of these innovative vans to put their money on the line and buy one, and do please report back with your conclusions after a four week trip in indifferent weather! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Thanks Derek..might go for the lovable version :-D You might be surprised to hear tracker that most see it otherwise. The more practical, rear bed (single /french/transverse) layout popular everywhere? That you and a few others are stuck in a time warp and hanker back to a caravan layout is entirely your choice, personally I just cant imagine living in such a van, as it does not utilise the space practically..... An oven can be retrofitted to any van. Anyone I know who have the Possl/globecar center large pull out bathroom (and we have at least 3 members on here with this layout) say it is fine, no rattles, works great... even Adria and other manufacturers have adopted it now. OK so sounds like the globecar the favorite. I prefer the nigh on identical Possl vans because the outside finish better and for some inexplicable reason they are a bit cheaper for an identical model Here is my favorite van for the money: Possl 636 FR (french bed - Oh! la la!:-D ) about £38K on the road, and if it was not for my health I would of been picking it up just about now :-S Nice open layout, king size 1500 mm wide bed, only possible because of center bathroom. Most french bed layouts even in CB to narrow as they have to squeeze the bathroom in next to it at back. Decent kitchen working space. rear bed can be used like a sofa, so 2 distinct living areas, Tv on wall can be viewed from front and rear..... masses of storage. http://www.promobil.de/test/caravan-salon-premiere-poessl-auf-franzoesisch-1290818.html the most popular twin single layout roadcruiser. have a look ar range and for drop down beds the H line range. Possl build the Concorde panel vans also http://www.poessl-mobile.de/de/modelle/d-line/roadcruiser.html La Strada expensive but so are UK bespoke vans. and as they are available in UK now. cant see how they could be excluded from test to be honest. Double floor, fully winterized, rear garage, quality bathroom,4 wheel drive option etc...etc... my favorite the the avante XL exclusive as it has a rear garage They even do a rear lounge version for tracker that actually looks comfortable! and you can have a drop down bed over it. One here without bed for about £43K BEFORE negotiations;-) http://tinyurl.com/dxm3rl9 This a superb range of vans, they even do their own 4x4 conversions. You can download a PDF brochure from here: http://www.la-strada.de/?app=configurator&mod=overview&menuid=3&languageid=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 In spite of criticism by Eddie we will continue to buy and use vans that have the layout and interior comfort and ambience that we prefer. Tried and tested layout does not mean stuck in a time warp and even if it were a 'caravan' type layout as Eddie keeps reiterating if it works and customers want it why change it? I fully recognise the rights of others to buy that which they prefer without criticism and all I ask is that others also recognise without criticism the rights of everyone else to buy that which they each prefer - even if it does not agree with their own personal choices. How hard can that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Afternoon all, When we went tent camping we had fixed bed so I am certainly not going to resort to making up a bed every night when I have spent £40000 on a campervan. My frustration is where are the drop down beds the slideouts and slide across bathrooms.? When the x250 Adria twin was first introduced it took the market by storm, now everyone is doing them. But hey , we buy whatever we like and what suits our purpose and I am not criticising enyones choice of purchase. I also think Adria have made mistake in not impoting the spx. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 When we are asleep it matters not about floorspace and we find a 2'4" wide single bed to be more comfortable than a narrow fixed bed and well worth the two minutes it takes to make - especially when you can easily access a comfortable enough loo in darkness! In the daytime floor space is handy - especially when it is not so warm and dry and especially when one shares one's living space with a four legged furry friend - and especially when it is all on one level without a step up area and even more so when it has comfortable seating that is not too upright and a food preparation area in the kitchen so the table can be left stowed and not take up even more valuable floor space!! But who is to say which is better, so, as you say, each to their own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Why does this debate drag on? It essentially is the same as the sites/aires/wilding debate. It is because we all differ in what we do with our vans, what we find agreeable, where we feel comfortable, and how much we are prepared to spend. Besides, they all have advantages and disadvantages, so what one rates a deal breaker, another will hardy notice, and vice versa. If we were all the same, there would only be one van in production, in one colour, and we'd all head off in it for the same place, at the same time of year. Baaaaa! Apart from the congestion, just consider the problem you'd have when returning from a day out and trying to find your van among all those other identical vans! :-) How about a bit of live and let live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 goldi - 2013-05-04 2:43 PM Afternoon all, When we went tent camping we had fixed bed so I am certainly not going to resort to making up a bed every night when I have spent £40000 on a campervan. My frustration is where are the drop down beds the slideouts and slide across bathrooms.? When the x250 Adria twin was first introduced it took the market by storm, now everyone is doing them. But hey , we buy whatever we like and what suits our purpose and I am not criticising enyones choice of purchase. I also think Adria have made mistake in not impoting the spx. norm Amen Norm :-D There are Adria twins from 2004 so at least from that date, and your right the forerunner of many imitators and some have overtaken them both in design and quality...Still a decent enough van compared with overpriced rubbish for sale here... Adria twin SP won MMM award in 2011 and can be had for around £35k imported. Adria Twin SLX won in 2013. They basically copied the very successful Globecar/Possl layout for this one, but in this video Adria appear to get the credit!lol : early review of SP: http://www.europebycamper.com/2012/05/adria-twin-live-in-review.html There ar 11 different models:http://www.adria-mobil.com/int-en/2013/vans/ Brian do you really think I'm at all bothered re some numpties boring justifications...This thread about panel vans, and simply trying to communicate some options that might not be obvious from article. its pretty obvious that many unaware of the options *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-05-04 5:15 PM do you really think I'm at all bothered re some numptie's boring justifications. That's pretty much how many of us feel about your fixation with imported vans and fixed beds Eddie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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