A491 Speed Trap - Oops

[lancepar]

Hi,

Anybody on this forum been done on this stretch of dual carriageway from Hagley towards the M5 in the West Midlands?

 

http://tinyurl.com/cbr4vmk

 

I can think of a better term for “technical error”

 

The drop from 60 to 50 is on a left-hand curve and the mobile camera position was just round the bend and un-sited to approaching traffic – neat.

 

Pass it on.

 

 

B-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

And we were sold the lie that CCTV was to protect us while it is being used to tax us! *-)

[starvin marvin]

JudgeMental - 2013-05-08 6:10 PM

 

And we were sold the lie that CCTV was to protect us while it is being used to tax us! *-)

 

I don't think thats ever been in doubt......but Judge you would know.

[Brian Kirby]

So, was there a 50MPH speed limit sign erected? I can understand the complaint if there wasn't, but that seems unlikely.

 

If there was, all this bunch are doing is trying to get around their own carelessness. The woman who complains that she was nabbed in 2004, and then again several years later, doesn't exactly do her case any favours, does she?

 

Whatever folk think about the limit, I assume it was there for a reason - presumed because of the accident record on that stretch.

 

I can't comment on the police tactics because I lack the local knowledge, but anyone who ignores speed limit signs must, surely, accept that they are taking a chance. I'm not moralising about driving within the limit, just stating that when one exceeds the limit one should be very, very, observant, and not start moaning if one gets caught. No one forces folk to speed, it is a free country and we all have the choice.

 

Besides which, why is this a motorhome matter? It seems a bit OT to me.

[gwyn]

Brian Kirby - 2013-05-08 7:05 PM

 

So, was there a 50MPH speed limit sign erected? I can understand the complaint if there wasn't, but that seems unlikely.

 

If there was, all this bunch are doing is trying to get around their own carelessness. The woman who complains that she was nabbed in 2004, and then again several years later, doesn't exactly do her case any favours, does she?

 

Whatever folk think about the limit, I assume it was there for a reason - presumed because of the accident record on that stretch.

 

I can't comment on the police tactics because I lack the local knowledge, but anyone who ignores speed limit signs must, surely, accept that they are taking a chance. I'm not moralising about driving within the limit, just stating that when one exceeds the limit one should be very, very, observant, and not start moaning if one gets caught. No one forces folk to speed, it is a free country and we all have the choice.

 

Besides which, why is this a motorhome matter? It seems a bit OT to me.

Agree totally, if you exceed the speed limit it is at your own risk

[hallii]

I was done at that spot, it was, for some 30 years to my knowledge, a 60 mph zone, the signs appeared overnight and they are just around a bend so you have to really look for them. The speed camera van is further around the bend and cannot be seen until you are almost on it.

 

I do not speed and have never been done before so I was very annoyed. I had to pay up though.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that this speed trap is fully legal, it is also grossly unfair.

 

Why are there no warning signs to advise that the speed limit has been changed? Because then the police wouldn't collect so much money. It's just a method to milk the motorist.

 

Instead of the points I had to waste a day at a "speed awareness" course. I sat and viewed old films from the 60s, and was told braking distances that date back to pre ABS and modern tyres.

 

Bored out of my mind, cost for this drivel was £80. Good money eh?

 

There were 36 people on the same course that's £2,880 A DAY!

 

H

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave Newell]

Slightly off topic but ABS does NOT reduce stopping distances, what it does is allow the driver to retain steering control under severe braking conditions so that he can hopefully steer away from the potential collision.

 

D.

[hallii]

Dave Newell - 2013-05-08 8:31 PM

 

Slightly off topic but ABS does NOT reduce stopping distances, what it does is allow the driver to retain steering control under severe braking conditions so that he can hopefully steer away from the potential collision.

 

D.

 

Bosch say "The car without ABS needs a considerably longer braking distance as it's wheels lock. The car with ABS is brought safely to stop within a shorter braking distance"

 

PDF Here :- http://tinyurl.com/crn75z3

 

H

[BGD]

Dave Newell - 2013-05-08 9:31 PM

 

Slightly off topic but ABS does NOT reduce stopping distances, what it does is allow the driver to retain steering control under severe braking conditions so that he can hopefully steer away from the potential collision.

 

D.

 

 

Dave - are you sure about that?

 

I'd thought that ABS enabled a greater amount of brake pressure without the wheels locking up and long-skidding, thus stopping distance could be significantly reduced, because after the sheer-force of a skid was achieved in a like-for-like non-ABS vehicle, the friction grip of tyres was substantially reduced (vague memories of friction principles in physics from about 200 years ago................).

 

 

People refer to ABS as "preventing skidding", but that's a misnomer. It doesn't.

In essence, ABS actually enables a multitude of "mini-skids" with full friction grip re-enabled between each one.

 

 

[quickweh]

Not the only one in the area, A435 from J3 M42 towards Redditch, 70mph to 40 at the end of dual carriageway, slight bend, 42mph and you are done. This one usually on a Sunday to catch the weekend drivers. A sat-nav with camera alerts is really useful around here, there are so many mobile camera sites. B-)

[Dave Newell]

Well yes, a vehicle with ABS willstop in less distance than one without if the wheels are locked but a good driver should be able to brake hard without locking wheels up and in this case the stopping distance should be shorter than the ABS equipped vehicle. If you hit the brake pedal so hard that you lock one or more wheels then you should quickly release and reapply the brake but not quite as hard.

 

D.

[AliB]

JudgeMental - 2013-05-08 6:10 PM

 

And we were sold the lie that CCTV was to protect us while it is being used to tax us! *-)

 

CCTV cameras and speed cameras are quite different technology. You are confusing one with the other.

[pepe63xnotuse]

It always amuses me when I hear of folk all up in arms when they're perceived to be "guilty" of something on a "technically"...and yet these same folk would probably be more than happy to get off on one! (lol)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

It's a great pity these "speed cameras" do not catch the growing numbers of mobile phone users, people high on drugs, drivers with no insurance, banned drivers, the list goes on and on, no catch me instead at 4 mph over the speed limit with a lifetime accident free driving record, I pose the greatest risk to others obviously. >:-( and I'm only mortal unlike other posters on here and sometimes do the unthinkable and stray over the limit >:-)

 

And I just love Brian Kirbys contribution as ever,as unlike him I suspect, I know this particular stretch of road very well indeed, who ever is responsible for speed limits and road layout have had a field day, in some stretches the once duel carriageway has all been hatched out effectively turning it into a single carriageway road, add in variable speed limits, one minute it's 60 then 50 then back to 60 again, and it's a bloody nightmare for drivers, no wonder the residents are up in arms ;-) many parts of the midlands, especially the A5 around Cannock and the different speed limits, and associated cameras to my mind at least serve no purpose other than to confuse drivers, and maximise revenue from the job lot camera purchases, >:-(

[Brian Kirby]

hallii - 2013-05-08 7:54 PM

 

I was done at that spot, it was, for some 30 years to my knowledge, a 60 mph zone, the signs appeared overnight and they are just around a bend so you have to really look for them. The speed camera van is further around the bend and cannot be seen until you are almost on it........................

Then, if the speed limit sign is so badly sited that it is not visible adequately in advance, that is a reasonable ground for complaint. So too, IMO, is the failure to put up an advance warning that the limit has changed - though, from the report, it seems the new sign had been there since at least 2004, so it is not that recent an addition. So, presumably, positioning is the real bone of contention.

 

Nevertheless, the actual complaint, as reported, was that there were legal omissions in drafting the order for the reduced limit. That is a quite different thing and is not, IMO, a proper justification for not having observed the limit. It suggests to me that those complaining were more interested in getting their money back, than in righting something that is wrong.

 

The police do not erect the signs, they are erected by the local highway authority. The police then set out to enforce the limit.

 

If a limit sign is badly sited, as appears possible with the one above, it is open to all to take up the matter with the highway engineers and, if necessary, councillors, Dept for Transport, and even MP's. That would be more constructive than a newspaper whinge about the legality of the sign. Then, by all means whinge to the papers if the proper authorities won't have the sign moved to a more visible position.

[AliB]

1footinthegrave - 2013-05-09 9:20 AM

 

It's a great pity these "speed cameras" do not catch the growing numbers of mobile phone users, people high on drugs, drivers with no insurance, banned drivers, the list goes on and on, no catch me instead at 4 mph over the speed limit with a lifetime accident free driving record, I pose the greatest risk to others obviously. >:-( and I'm only mortal unlike other posters on here and sometimes do the unthinkable and stray over the limit >:-)

-(

 

ANPR cameras are used to track vehicles without insurance etc. There is a growing number of such cameras on the motorways. I noticed a significant number of new installation on the M1 in Nottinghamshire.

 

Here is just one of many sites detailing ANPR camera use:

http://www.bedfordshire.police.uk/about_us/anpr_operation_sentinel/anpr_-_faqs.aspx

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

AliB - 2013-05-09 5:01 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-05-09 9:20 AM

 

It's a great pity these "speed cameras" do not catch the growing numbers of mobile phone users, people high on drugs, drivers with no insurance, banned drivers, the list goes on and on, no catch me instead at 4 mph over the speed limit with a lifetime accident free driving record, I pose the greatest risk to others obviously. >:-( and I'm only mortal unlike other posters on here and sometimes do the unthinkable and stray over the limit >:-)

-(

 

ANPR cameras are used to track vehicles without insurance etc. There is a growing number of such cameras on the motorways. I noticed a significant number of new installation on the M1 in Nottinghamshire.

 

Here is just one of many sites detailing ANPR camera use:

http://www.bedfordshire.police.uk/about_us/anpr_operation_sentinel/anpr_-_faqs.aspx

 

On a daily basis I see people using mobile phones coming towards me, when the ANPR cameras detect them it will be as far as I'm concerned a far better use of cameras for safety reasons than ever they were for the majority who go over the limit by a few mph, but are otherwise very safe drivers.

 

Of course I remember a time when you could have a bobby follow you, pull you over and using their discretion of your general driving just give you a warning, they showed the good sense to be able to distinguish between a driver being dangerous or not, not so now though we're all boy racers. :-(

[yeti]

hallii - 2013-05-08 7:54 PM

 

I was done at that spot, it was, for some 30 years to my knowledge, a 60 mph zone, the signs appeared overnight and they are just around a bend so you have to really look for them. The speed camera van is further around the bend and cannot be seen until you are almost on it.

 

I do not speed and have never been done before so I was very annoyed. I had to pay up though.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that this speed trap is fully legal, it is also grossly unfair.

 

Why are there no warning signs to advise that the speed limit has been changed? Because then the police wouldn't collect so much money. It's just a method to milk the motorist.

 

Instead of the points I had to waste a day at a "speed awareness" course. I sat and viewed old films from the 60s, and was told braking distances that date back to pre ABS and modern tyres.

 

Bored out of my mind, cost for this drivel was £80. Good money eh?

 

There were 36 people on the same course that's £2,880 A DAY!

 

H

 

 

 

 

 

 

Usually delivered by ex coppers who now have driving schools-nice to have friends!

[Guest MelbaK]

Most people do not have money just sitting in an account waiting to get used, so it could be very hard whenever you get a speeding citation in the mail. There are a lot of speed traps on there, particularly in case you are on a journey. It is frustrating when it comes suddenly and demands a payday advance loan for the state. Get more data at: (removed buy mods)

[bolero boy]

MelbaK - 2013-08-30 12:56 AM

 

Most people do not have money just sitting in an account waiting to get used, so it could be very hard whenever you get a speeding citation in the mail. There are a lot of speed traps on there, particularly in case you are on a journey. It is frustrating when it comes suddenly and demands a payday advance loan for the state. Get more data at: Payday Advance Loan

WHAT............mods, what's going on here, 2nd post this morning both with a payday loan link in them.....

This one mentions a 'speeding citation'!! And the other a news article about relocating homeless people in the US.....

A foreign troll.........?

[bolero boy]

The Batheaston bypas, built some years ago, is a lovely stretch of smooth wide dual-carriageway which, by default and the Highway Code, should have a limit of 70mph. But, no. This wonderful piece of road construction is limited to 50mph with the most devilishly sited cameras enforcing it.

I have no problem with a 50mph limit on a road that is appropriate, but to construct, what is in effect, a short stretch of motorway, and limit it to an absurdly low speed limit seems bizarre. Are we building roads that are inherently unsafe? This was a new piece do road so could not have had any accident history, might as well have done a single carriageway job and spent the rest finishing off the loooooooooooong awaited last few miles of dual carriageway on the A303' tho don't get me started on that on. Hapeth of tar comes to mind!

Those poor buggers in the jams this bank holiday......

[Guest JudgeMental]

hallii - 2013-05-08 7:54 PM

 

I was done at that spot, it was, for some 30 years to my knowledge, a 60 mph zone, the signs appeared overnight and they are just around a bend so you have to really look for them. The speed camera van is further around the bend and cannot be seen until you are almost on it.

 

I do not speed and have never been done before so I was very annoyed. I had to pay up though.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that this speed trap is fully legal, it is also grossly unfair.

 

Why are there no warning signs to advise that the speed limit has been changed? Because then the police wouldn't collect so much money. It's just a method to milk the motorist.

 

Instead of the points I had to waste a day at a "speed awareness" course. I sat and viewed old films from the 60s, and was told braking distances that date back to pre ABS and modern tyres.

 

Bored out of my mind, cost for this drivel was £80. Good money eh?

 

There were 36 people on the same course that's £2,880 A DAY!

 

H

 

 

 

Got of lightly....Some may say 30 years a bit of a harsh sentence...personally I moi would have added a big fat zero!

[BikerBarry]

Speed cameras should be hidden, moved about regularly, and then maybe irresponsible drivers might start obeying the law. The whole basis on which a democratic society operates is based on this, and not on the self righteous picking and choosing which laws should apply to them whilst expecting them to apply to everyone else. .

[bolero boy]

Barry, not picking and choosing which laws to obey ( I feel I do a good job on obeying most). My point was that a brand newly built open stretch of dual carriageway should be assigned a lowly limit of 50mph seems strange. Dual carriageways are normally built for speedy travel allowing faster traffic to slip by slower vehicles. This is not possible on this stretch of road and might as well have been single carriageway. Of course, we now have another great 'rule' of the road which is that goods vehicles over 7.5 tons have a maximum of 40 (yes, 40) mph on a single carriageway road. With most of these lorries travelling at about 35 mph you can get massive tailbacks.

Still, any vehicles travelling around our 6 foot wide country lanes here in Somerset can bat along at 60mph as this is the prevailing limit on a single carriageway road.

I don't pick and choose which laws to obey, but you have to agree that a little common sense should be applied in some cases.

[Guest Peter James]

Dave Newell - 2013-05-09 7:21 AM

 

Well yes, a vehicle with ABS willstop in less distance than one without if the wheels are locked but a good driver should be able to brake hard without locking wheels up and in this case the stopping distance should be shorter than the ABS equipped vehicle. If you hit the brake pedal so hard that you lock one or more wheels then you should quickly release and reapply the brake but not quite as hard.

 

D.

 

That assumes the brakes are well balanced front to rear and side to side. Which is unlikely without ABS.