Fuel prices rigged?

[Guest pelmetman]

Another Libor type scandal were ripping of the average Joe is acceptable business practice in big business 8-)

 

EU raids on oil firms raise petrol prices worries

 

The investigation relates to oil, refined products and biofuels

 

MPs and motoring groups have called on UK regulators to investigate claims that oil giants may have been linked to price-fixing for more than a decade.

 

It follows a raid on the offices of BP, Royal Dutch Shell, and Norway's Statoil by European anti-trust regulators.

 

The companies said they were cooperating with investigators.

 

The RAC said that the claims were "worrying news for motorists", while Tory MP Robert Halfon said drivers were being taken for an "expensive ride".

 

European Commission officials said its investigators made the "unannounced inspections" on Tuesday amid concerns that "the companies may have colluded in reporting distorted prices".

 

It did not name the firms, and emphasised that the raids did not mean the companies were guilty of any charges.

 

But BP, Shell, and Statoil, and also the oil pricing agency Platts, confirmed that they were working with the authorities in their inquiries.

 

"Even small distortions of assessed prices may have a huge impact on the prices of crude oil, refined oil products and biofuels purchases and sales, potentially harming final consumers,'" the Commission said.

 

As part of the investigation, the Commission said it was examining whether the companies may have prevented others from participating in the pricing process "with a view to distorting published prices".

 

It added: "Any such behaviour, if established, may amount to violations of European antitrust rules that prohibit cartels and restrictive business practices and abuses of a dominant market position."

 

 

Robert Halfon: "The OFT need to look at this again"

RAC technical director David Bizley said: "The Office of Fair Trading inquiry concluded at the end of January that the UK fuel market was operating fairly and not against the best interests of motorists, and therefore that a Competition Commission investigation was not needed.

 

"Motorists will be very interested to see what comes of these raids," he said, adding that there was a need for greater transparency in the UK fuel markets.

 

Mr Halfon, MP for Harlow, told the BBC that the OFT must look again at the fuel market.

 

'A need to know'

Shadow energy and climate change secretary Caroline Flint said: "These are very concerning reports, which if true, suggest shocking behaviour in the oil market that should be dealt with strongly.

 

"When the allegations of price fixing in the gas market were made, Labour warned that opaque over-the-counter deals and relying on price reporting agencies left the market vulnerable to abuse.

 

"These latest allegations of price fixing in the oil market raise very similar questions. Consumers need to know that the prices they pay for their energy or petrol are fair, transparent and not being manipulated".

 

Platts, which compiles prices for energy markets, said it was "co-operating fully with the European Commission's review."

 

BP said in a statement: "We are co-operating fully with the investigation and are unable to comment further at this time."

 

A Shell spokesman added that it was "fully co-operating" with investigators.

 

Statoil, which confirmed its Norwegian headquarters had been inspected, said the suspected violations "related to the Platts' Market-On-Close price assessment process" and "may have been on-going since 2002".

 

Will anything happen?.........I doubt it...........will we get our money back?...........I doubt it *-).........will HE pop up to defend big business?............. >:-)

[Guest Had Enough]

The difference between you and me of course is that I read the article in this morning's Telegraph and understood what it was saying, which was that two companies are under suspicion of rigged reporting.

 

You seem to be saying that they are guilty. Most intelligent people will await the result of the enquiry.

 

Then again, most people don't have an obsessive hatred of 'suits' who happen to be more successful than they are.

 

If ultimately, they are guilty, I hope they are punished severely. If they are not then that's the end of it, though I've no doubt that you'll be the first to scream 'cover up'.

 

Now, stop this mania that you have about richer people and learn to chill. You'll feel better for it I promise you. ;-)

 

I note that even this very lightly-moderated forum seems to have had enough of the constant drivel from the Chatterbox Morons' Club and has pulled the Muslim Peado (sic) thread.

 

So it appears that it's not just me and a few people in Motorhome Matters who now refuse to come here! :-D :-D :-D :-D

[Guest pelmetman]

pelmetman - 2013-05-15 9:29 AM

 

will HE pop up to defend big business?............. >:-)

 

Thanks HE :D......... that's a tenner I've one for myself (lol) (lol)................

[Guest Had Enough]

pelmetman - 2013-05-15 10:41 AM

 

pelmetman - 2013-05-15 9:29 AM

 

will HE pop up to defend big business?............. >:-)

 

Thanks HE :D......... that's a tenner I've one for myself (lol) (lol)................

 

Well, you did more or less throw out an invite!

 

A tenner you've 'one' for yourself? Who's the other 'one' for?

 

Honestly, you couldn't make it up! *-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Had Enough - 2013-05-15 10:49 AM

 

pelmetman - 2013-05-15 10:41 AM

 

pelmetman - 2013-05-15 9:29 AM

 

will HE pop up to defend big business?............. >:-)

 

Thanks HE :D......... that's a tenner I've one for myself (lol) (lol)................

 

Well, you did more or less throw out an invite!

 

A tenner you've 'one' for yourself? Who's the other 'one' for?

 

Honestly, you couldn't make it up! *-)

 

Your so like my old mate Francis ;-).................formerly of this parish, he had the same complex superiority issues as your good self, and also liked to indulge in a spot of moralistic willy waving :D.........

 

Sadly he left :'(........................but now we have you :-D............

 

Must go and do some work *-).................but I'll be back at 12 for Lunch, Bargain Hunt, and the next HE insult...........I can't wait (lol) (lol) (lol)

[RogerC]

Had Enough - 2013-05-15 10:09 AMThe difference between you and me of course is that I read the article in this morning's Telegraph and understood what it was saying, which was that two companies are under suspicion of rigged reporting.You seem to be saying that they are guilty. Most intelligent people will await the result of the enquiry.Then again, most people don't have an obsessive hatred of 'suits' who happen to be more successful than they are.If ultimately, they are guilty, I hope they are punished severely. If they are not then that's the end of it, though I've no doubt that you'll be the first to scream 'cover up'.Now, stop this mania that you have about richer people and learn to chill. You'll feel better for it I promise you. ;-)I note that even this very lightly-moderated forum seems to have had enough of the constant drivel from the Chatterbox Morons' Club and has pulled the Muslim Peado (sic) thread.So it appears that it's not just me and a few people in Motorhome Matters who now refuse to come here! :-D :-D :-D :-D

 

Oh my goodness who got out on the wrong side of the bed this morning?  You seem to have such a dislike of this place I'm surprised you still bother to log in.......to paraphrase a certain celeb.......relax it's just a forum.

 

[nowtelse2do]

According to The Fair Fuel Campaign, they asked OFT to start a full enquiry after a whistleblower alerted them about (allegedly) fixing fuel prices last year, but they declined for lack of evidence. After all that's been going on with fuel prices over these last few years I think we all know something did not seem right.

 

I think the energy companies should be fully investigated to >:-(

 

Dave

[CliveH]

I have thought for a long time that the way crude oil prices are set had a potential for manipulation. It seems it was!

 

 

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Never, I don't believe it, people being scammed for more profit, never, the next thing you'll be saying is they have been selling horse meat bought for pennies made into burgers and passed off as beef, pure fantasy. :D

 

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

 

David Cameron is extremely concerned by claims of price fixing by major oil companies, Downing Street has said.

 

The prime minister's spokesman said it was "deeply worrying" if prices have been driven up for consumers.

 

Oil giants including BP and Shell are facing claims they have been fixing prices for more than a decade.

 

It follows a raid on the offices of BP, Royal Dutch Shell, and Norway's Statoil by European anti-trust regulators.

 

The companies said they were co-operating with investigators.

 

In a Commons statement, Energy Secretary Ed Davey said the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) was working with European Commission investigators but stressed their inquiries were at a very early stage and urged MPs not to "jump the gun".

 

'Limp-wristed'

But he promised the "full force of the law" would be brought down on the companies if the allegations were found to be true.

 

 

We expect the companies concerned to fully comply with these investigations”

 

Ed Davey

Energy Secretary

 

"This government is deeply concerned by any allegation that prices for consumers could have been artificially or unnecessarily driven up," the Lib Dem cabinet minister told MPs.

 

"The UK government and regulators will provide any assistance necessary to the European investigators and we expect the companies concerned to fully comply with these investigations."

 

He also defended the Office of Fair trading which found no evidence of price fixing when it carried out its own investigation into the petrol market last year.

 

Tory MP Robert Halfon, who has been campaigning for cuts to fuel duty and greater transparency, attacked the OFT's inquiry as "limp-wristed and lettuce-like".

 

Despite calls for a full probe into petrol pricing, amid claims of price fixing by a whistleblower, the regulator had failed to spot any of the allegations now being investigated by the EU, said Mr Halfon.

 

'Shocking behaviour'

He called on the government to change the law so that people could be jailed "for fixing oil prices" and for any cash recovered in fines, if the companies are found guilty, to be returned to motorists.

 

Caroline Flint, responding for Labour, said the allegations "if true" were an example of "shocking behaviour in the oil market which should be dealt with strongly".

 

She called on the OFT to re-open its investigation into the petrol market.

 

Mr Davey said the OFT was an "independent body, a strong body", which has powers to determine its own investigations and the government could not interfere.

 

He rejected accusations of complacency from some MPs, saying the government had tightened up competition laws.

 

European Commission officials said its investigators made the "unannounced inspections" on Tuesday amid concerns that "the companies may have colluded in reporting distorted prices".

 

It did not name the firms, and emphasised that the raids did not mean the companies were guilty of any charges.

 

'Huge impact'

But BP, Shell, and Statoil, and also the oil pricing agency Platts, confirmed that they were working with the authorities in their inquiries.

 

In a statement the European Commission said: "Even small distortions of assessed prices may have a huge impact on the prices of crude oil, refined oil products and biofuels purchases and sales, potentially harming final consumers,'"

 

As part of the investigation, the Commission said it was examining whether the companies may have prevented others from participating in the pricing process "with a view to distorting published prices".

 

It added: "Any such behaviour, if established, may amount to violations of European antitrust rules that prohibit cartels and restrictive business practices and abuses of a dominant market position."

[CliveH]

"David Cameron is extremely concerned by claims of price fixing by major oil companies, Downing Street has said.

 

The prime minister's spokesman said it was "deeply worrying" if prices have been driven up for consumers."

 

...................................

 

Really.

 

Is that what he said?

 

Could someone ask Etonwaffle if fuel prices being driven up is so "deeply worrying" why is it that we have all had our energy bills increased by the green taxes applied by his government to our energy bills s that FIT's can be paid to already well off Land Owners (Often family members or good friends of the Etonwaffle set) who put wind farms up on their land?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RogerC]

As well as the oil companies why don't they look into the market speculators who, so rumor has it, and a relative of mine can confirm, hold tankers off shore waiting for the price to spike before offloading? 

 

[CliveH]

That happens a lot Roger. Like it or loath it, it is how most markets work. Not saying i condone it but buy low sell high is basic.

 

From buying an item at a car boot sale then selling for a profit via ebay

 

To buying wheat at the harvest, storing it and then selling it in the winter when prices are higher, this is how commodities work.

 

Not under Communism tho, 8-) - but they tried that and it was not a great success.

 

:-S

 

 

[Dave225]

I have no idea whether or not there is truth in this, however it seems strange that only Shell, BP and Statoil are in the 'dock'. What about all the US companies, French , EU and Arab Companies etc as they all fix their prices using Platts Data. If only the 3 Companies were doing it, then it would appear pretty obvious. Now I do not disagree a penny here and there adds up to a lot of profits but before all UK motorists start jumping up and down remember the majority of the pump price is Duty and VAT and applies to the same wholesale price, so will the Government hand back the excess duty on every gallon you have bought over the last few years? I thought not.

 

I will be even more suspicious if the US suddenly decides to fine BP, Shell and Statoil for 'offences', but ignores ExxonMobile, Chevron etc.

 

I suspect the usual 'scam' of creating an issue to deflect interest elsewhere.

[flicka]

BUT WHAT@S CHANGED -

 

OPEC was formed in (I think) the 1950's around the time of the Suez crisis & the Arab Gulf States who are the majority of members simply control the Crude Oil prices by cutting their production capacity.

OPEC have used this formula for years & will continue, ad infinitum, for their own political purposes.

 

Yes, there is a market fluctuation after their initial influence, but that is mainly driven by the US market, for Gas Oil, especially in winter when the US demand escalates due to the high % of homes heated by Gas Oil & the US refining is unable to produce anything like the volume they require. This has had a dramatic effect over the last 3 or 4 years, when they have experienced very bad winters.

 

 

So, like the Banking crisis, it all comes down to the US.of A. as the problem >:-)

 

All commodities are influenced by market forces, restrict supply & consumer costs escalate. Over supply & the producer suffers low prices or even destroying excess if a perishable comodity. All are under a "consortium" of some sort.