The Audacity

[Brian Kirby]

mal100 - 2013-05-18 11:02 PM.I thought that I might learn something useful or be amongst like minded people.

You will, and you probably are, but there is a certain minority! Don't let them put you off.

 

But reading this thread makes me sad. I don't think I have ever read such bigoted, drivel before. Some people obviously have 'set' views about things and are prepared to recount them endlessly to anyone who will listen.

Agreed, and those with the set views do like to rehearse them. I just assume they had insufficient exposure to different points of view as they grew up. It's a life thing! :-)

 

But please let's not try to ascribe attributes to all after an experience with one. If this is the level of discussion on this forum then I won't be back. :-(

Quite, but some always do. No shades of grey, just black and white. This string is not representative of all discussions, or even most, just those that involve motorhomers using camp sites (and a handful of other subjects), where the usual suspects (those who can't abide campsites, despite on their own admission virtually never using them), just have to pop up. Silly, ain't it?

 

Just remember the saying: "you can always tell a closed mind.......................but not much!" :-D

[mal100]

Brian

 

Thanks for that. I appreciate your view but still do not understand the vitriolic sniping that some seem to take pleasure in.

 

I might be back if I need something specific but I think it unlikely.

 

Mal

[mal100]

Lenny

 

How would I know whether or not I liked a thread unless I read it? Why is it a cheek to complain?

 

Mal

[sambukashot]

Yeh your right, how dare i complain that i spent my hard earned money on a club and the services that i received was very poor, since i did not renew my membership with them and will never use them again i don't care -:)

[Brian Kirby]

sambukashot - 2013-05-19 12:39 PM

 

Yeh your right, how dare i complain that i spent my hard earned money on a club and the services that i received was very poor, since i did not renew my membership with them and will never use them again i don't care -:)

But that wasn't the point, was it? The point was that you condemn for evermore a club, one of whose wardens, who may only have lasted a single seasion because of his attitude, gave what you consider bad service. The wardens don't charge what they like, they charge what the rate is at that time of year. As you had joined you will have had a club sites guide, and that would have told you the cost of staying had you looked.

 

It is called the Caravan Club, because it was founded by, and for, caravanners. They tend not to travel around with their caravans, but to arrive and stay put. Therefore, they tend to book ahead. As more caravanners switch to motorhomes, they are slowly getting better at coping with more transiend clients: but for some, old habits die hard. Space is often limited, because of bookings, and many wardens are reluctant to take on a wandering motorhomer for an odd night or two, because they know that if the motorhomer decides to extend their stay, there is the potential for conflict with those who have booked. Not all humans relish conflict, and not all have PhDs in human relations.

 

However, the central point remains. It is unreasonable to condemn the whole institution because you got a bad warden, or an otherwise good warden on a bad day, on a single occasion.

 

You might as easily have bought an ice-cream with a flavour you didn't like. Would you merely avoid that flavour next time, or declare you'll never eat another ice-cream? :-) That is all most folk have been saying.

[rupert123]

Brian Kirby - 2013-05-19 2:19 PM

 

sambukashot - 2013-05-19 12:39 PM

 

Yeh your right, how dare i complain that i spent my hard earned money on a club and the services that i received was very poor, since i did not renew my membership with them and will never use them again i don't care -:)

But that wasn't the point, was it? The point was that you condemn for evermore a club, one of whose wardens, who may only have lasted a single seasion because of his attitude, gave what you consider bad service. The wardens don't charge what they like, they charge what the rate is at that time of year. As you had joined you will have had a club sites guide, and that would have told you the cost of staying had you looked.

 

It is called the Caravan Club, because it was founded by, and for, caravanners. They tend not to travel around with their caravans, but to arrive and stay put. Therefore, they tend to book ahead. As more caravanners switch to motorhomes, they are slowly getting better at coping with more transiend clients: but for some, old habits die hard. Space is often limited, because of bookings, and many wardens are reluctant to take on a wandering motorhomer for an odd night or two, because they know that if the motorhomer decides to extend their stay, there is the potential for conflict with those who have booked. Not all humans relish conflict, and not all have PhDs in human relations.

 

However, the central point remains. It is unreasonable to condemn the whole institution because you got a bad warden, or an otherwise good warden on a bad day, on a single occasion.

 

You might as easily have bought an ice-cream with a flavour you didn't like. Would you merely avoid that flavour next time, or declare you'll never eat another ice-cream? :-) That is all most folk have been saying.

Spot on Brian. I also find it strange that the people on here who seem to complain loudest about outfits like the CC are those who constantly state they do not use sites or hookup. Now is this coincidence that they also use only aires or 'wildcamp' in europe, nothing about money of course, or the reluctance to spend any, much easier to just find faults with the clubs, much easier than just saying 'i do not want to spend the money'.

[Barryd999]

mal100 - 2013-05-19 12:22 PM

 

Brian

 

Thanks for that. I appreciate your view but still do not understand the vitriolic sniping that some seem to take pleasure in.

 

I might be back if I need something specific but I think it unlikely.

 

Mal

 

Mal. Do come back. I have grown to like this forum and once you get to know whos who it can be quite good fun and very useful. Im a member of three motorhome forums and they are all quite different. The spats and sniping on here are part of the fun. Its difficult to see as a new user but its the same ones doing the sniping and depsite the fact that it can look quite agressive and to be fair sometimes it is they are enjoying themselves. :-D

 

There is still plenty of useful stuff on here and if you need help you will get a response.

 

Stick your head above the parapet and start a thread called "All campsite users are Jessies" and you will get it shot off! Just shoot back! :-D

 

 

[sambukashot]

The Caravan Club had also messed me around with my insurance, I signed up and took out my first ever motorhome insurance with them, received the policy and went to collect our new motorhome, the same day we were travelling to pick up our new motorhome they called me to say the policy was cancelled because this was my first ever policy for a motorhome with them and I would have to prove I had 3 years no claims first, I explained on the phone that this was my first ever policy and told them this information when i took out insurance with them in the first place and they issued me the policy but it was a sharp no from them on the phone them and if I wanted my money back i needed to return the policy for a refund.

So i had arrived at the motorhome dealers with no insurance to drive it home then I had to ring around franticly to get a new policy straight away and have it faxed to the dealer, what a mess this was from the caravan club, and you think I care about them anymore? They did not care about me when I needed them for my insurance and they did not care about me when I needed some where to park up for the night at only 5.00pm ooh silly me I was told off for not booking in advance, like it was my first offence and i got verbally punished for my crime…

Here is the email from the cc for the insurance before you start claiming I made it all up.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CoverIssued From 00:01 hrs on 12/11/2010

QuoteReference Number: 692-709-103

Thank youfor choosing The Caravan Club for your motor insurance policy, which isunderwritten by AXA Insurance.

We wouldlike to confirm that cover has been issued as requested. Within five workingdays you will receive your policy documents and instruction on anydocumentation we may require from you to complete the process.

If youhave any queries or need to make any amendments to your policy please do nothesitate to contact our Customer Service Department on 0845 3004290. We are open from Monday to Friday 8:30am to 6:00pm andSaturday 9:00am to 1:00pm. Calls may be recorded.

 

The CaravanClub

 

Theinsurance is underwritten from a panel of Insurers and arranged by DevittInsurance Services Limited, authorised and regulated by the Financial ServicesAuthority. Conditions apply.

RegisteredOffice: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent, BR1 1DP. Registeredin England No. 2438974

[Dave225]

There have been, and probably always will be, comments regarding both Clubs. Both have their supporters and detractors. However, as most people now recognise that both Clubs are basically commercial businesses and as such have commercial targets then it should also be recognised by them that it can take years to build a good reputation as a business but only a short time to lose it. Yes, both Clubs have large memberships, or customers, but then again they do tend to have a monopoly in the camping world. Yes, there are commercial sites everywhere but no other organisation has such a widespread range of outlets available. It would be interesting if one ever did start and offer competition to both CC and C&CC, whether it would succeed.

 

Similarly as has been stated the CL/CS network is popular but again are all privately owned. If another Organisation offered a better deal to the owners then I am sure many would transfer, but again as currently the Clubs have a virtual monopoly, if you have a small 5 outfit site available then there is little choice for you.

 

I admit to not being a great fan of the CC although have been a member for nearly 38 years. In the beginning we liked the sites even if all you got was a tap and a drain for the loo, if you actually had one, of course. However I have grown to dislike the blatant commercialism of much of the CC nowadays but again remain a member as it is not so expensive to make me cancel, although we only use the sites maybe once a year for a single night. Mind you if the fees keep increasing then it may come to pass we ditch them. Some on here have commented that you do not get allocated a pitch, which is both good and bad. Good as you have a choice but bad if the site is busy and the wardens do not bother to tell you where the free pitches are, and you scrabble round looking for a stupid peg. And no, in nearly all cases we have not been told where free pitches are, and when enquiring, are merely told that as people who have arrived have not come back with a pitch number, the warden does not know which pitches are free. Which is rubbish as they have a board in reception so could at least give you an idea. The C&CC do at least guide you to a pitch, which you may not like of course, but you can always ask if another is free. Sometimes you are lucky. The other mad idea that both Clubs seem to enjoy is having all outfits pointing the same way. Fine if everyone has a Uk outfit but not so good if yours is from the EU. Having your backside pointing the same way as the front of other outfits is not a great way to arrange things. We now spend 99% of our time in Europe and there you get a pitch of choice and it is yours to do as you wish. You can point in, out, sideways or even upside down if that is your fancy. I also like the fact that site fees are usually up to €16 right up to July whereas even low season on a CC site will hit you for £17, or at least that is what I paid at Durham in the 3rd week of April. I suspect the quoted £30 is not too far off the mark for high season.

 

By the way anyone thinking of becoming a warden, check carefully. Both employ Asst Wardens in numbers but only a very very small number ever become Wardens and there is a big big difference. It is a bit like some Companies where you may be told you can only get the boss’s job when he dies etc . Actual Wardens stay a long time as it pays well, and they get a lot of perks. There are only so many sites and the same people move round and round. Of course if you are big buddies with a high honcho in the CC then probably you will do just fine. Personally I feel there are better ways of using my time and achieving objectives, but to each his/her own as they say.

 

[sambukashot]

Space is often limited, because of bookings, and many wardens are reluctant to take on a wandering motorhomer for an odd night or two, because they know that if the motorhomer decides to extend their stay, there is the potential for conflict with those who have booked

Don't they have some sort of reservations booking software that maps the bookings in advance or use a wall chart of some sorts, they must know what pitches they have available at any one time?

[Brian Kirby]

sambukashot - 2013-05-19 4:35 PM

Space is often limited, because of bookings, and many wardens are reluctant to take on a wandering motorhomer for an odd night or two, because they know that if the motorhomer decides to extend their stay, there is the potential for conflict with those who have booked

Don't they have some sort of reservations booking software that maps the bookings in advance or use a wall chart of some sorts, they must know what pitches they have available at any one time?

Generally, yes. But you said:"I had the same thing with the caravan club, 5.00pm and we drove passed a site and popped in on the off chance (i was a member at the time) all i got was the 3rd degree about how late in the day it was to arrive at a site and i should have booked well in advance? they put me up for one night gave me grass area to park on out of the way and charged me about £30 for the night."So, you were accomodated, but did not like the pitch or the price. Pitch probably Hobson's choice as you had not booked, price should have been as in the sites book. I'm not defending their rigidity, and you have since exercised you choice and left. However, someone knew which pitches were available, or you would have been turned away, but you got on. Both clubs, on a large number of their sites, rely heavily on pitches being pre-booked. We may not like it, but that is how it is. Try a site like Canterbury or Salisbury, where they get a lot of foreign tourists, and you'd think you were at a European site reception. Completely different reception to sites in deepest England! But, it requires far brighter, more flexibly minded, individuals to run. Not all wardens, dare I say, come from that mould. So, as they say, it is generally a case of "don't kick the pricks, bend them"! :-)

[lennyhb]

What happened to the C&CC rule that only 75% of pitches could be booked, 25% remaining available for touring members.

 

Now if both clubs brought that rule back in it would solve a lot of problems, but they won't they are to interested in running them as a commercial business rather than a club which is there for it's members.

[sambukashot]

Brian said: prices hould have been as in the sites book

I did not have any books with me at the time, it was running late in the day and i just so happened to pass the CC site without even knowing it was there so i turned around, drove in and asked politely if they could accommodate me, my gripe was not really with the pitch they offered me as i did not even view it i just took what they offered me nor was my gripe with the price i merely mentioned it in the post! My real gripe was with the over bearing attitude I received at reception, they insisted on checking my CC card on their computer before they would even offer me anything at all or discuss the possibility of a night stopover, I even apologized at the time explaining this was the first time I had ever used a CC site but that just led to a complete rundown of the rules and regulations, do’s and dont’s of the CC site so my first impression of these places was off-putting in fact I never used one of their sites again I just let the membership run out and never bothered to renew.

I have previously had the Caravan Club take my money for insurance then cancel on me at the last minute then the bad attitude at the campsite thats two bad experiences in a row with them i could not let them make it three, so i think im am justified in my case to have a small gripe with them :)

[Brian Kirby]

Hmmmm! Not really the most encouraging of receptions, then, was it? Given similar circumstances I should probably have done exactly the same! As they say, there's nowt so queer as folk. :-D

[Guest JudgeMental]

I have not renewed for similar reasons given in this thread, the main being the antiquated pre booking system and never been able to get a pitch when we wanted one. There is definitely a tendency for the warden position to attract the sergeant major types. Some have been pleasant enough some outright obnoxious. The worst example was a very large warden chastising two very young kids on their bikes, we had a very frank exchange of views. It just looked so wrong, the kids doing nothing that I could see,. When challenged he just went scarlet as he new damn well he was in the wrong....

 

We stayed at one site in Norfolk,out of season which is rare for us due to wife's work. We where chastised and made to move about 3 foot.....we just laughed. And it was the only CC site we have been on with a bar! We where the only ones having a drink, the site was full more or less and devoid of atmosphere. Not for us I'm afraid...having never managed to get on a CL once did not help ....

 

Never felt tempted to JUST turn up.....Not that brave I'm afraid. And as for calling itself a club..do me a favour!lol

[lennyhb]

JudgeMental - 2013-05-20 7:35 AM

 

And as for calling itself a club..do me a favour!lol

 

Legal definition of a club:-

 

An organization composed of people who voluntarily meet on a regular basis for a mutual purpose other than educational, religious, charitable, or financial pursuits. A club is any kind of group that has members who meet for a social, literary, or political purpose, such as health clubs, country clubs, book clubs, and women's associations. The term club is not a legal term per se, but a group that organizes itself as a club must comply with any laws governing its organization and otherwise be cognizant of the legal ramifications in undertaking to organize itself in this manner.

 

Various types of clubs exist. An incorporated members' club is composed of a group of individuals who each contribute to the club's funds, which are used to pay the expenses of conducting the society. An unincorporated proprietary club is one whose proprietor owns the property and funds and conducts the club to attempt to make a profit. The members are entitled to use the premises and property in exchange for the payment of entrance fees and subscriptions to the proprietor as well as any additional rights and privileges provided in their contractual agreement.

 

An incorporated club is generally governed by state statute. Many statutes provide for the incorporation of clubs, and the statutory requirements must be strictly observed. A statute may require that an application for incorporation state the purposes of the club in a definitive manner to help the court determine whether the objective of the club is legal. In addition, the application should state the manner in which club revenues are to be provided and the basis upon which an individual may become a member of the club.

 

A club's certificate of incorporation should indicate pecuniary means (i.e., funds, money, property), describe the objective of the club, and specify a place of business or office. If a club is unincorporated, the rules that govern associations apply.

 

Voluntary clubs are not partnerships, since the members do not join them for profit-making purposes and, unlike partners, are not responsible for the acts of each other. If a club's members do unite for a commercial venture, however, this association would constitute a partnership. In such cases, a club might be required to comply with state law governing partnerships.

 

I don't think they have ever bothered to read this. :D

[PJay]

As I have stated before, we also left the CC as, not for us. We mainly tour in France/Spain, where we are at the moment. We are not aire users normaly, but as we have been with a friend who lives in France, we have used some. Found a nice aire outside Samur, this was an old camp site now a municipal aire, with 80 spaces so no crowding close to-gether. usual facilities for MH, plus a super toilet, with automatic flush , when you open the door to leave, and it had toilet paper! Cost for 1 night e5. Next night found a municipal camp site at Chauvigny cost e7 for a night with all facilities plus free wi-fi electic was e2.99 extra if required. Water was on pitch also Municipal sites are good value

PS did use old CC book to find Chauvigny

Now hoping to get south and find the SUN, as it.s very wet over here!! (currently.in the Vienne region just north of Limoges)

Happy camping all

PJay

 

 

 

 

[crinklystarfish]

Both big clubs, to my mind, have a very useful window which illuminates the psychology and values of those using / managing the sites and those influencing club policy.

 

They both produce their own magazines.

 

You only have to casually read these to see that both organisations are terribly serious about governance and pettiness. I do not know, but suspect the demographic of those influencing policy would reveal a majority of gentlemen of a certain age, of a certain colour, and of a certain mindset.

 

Equally, you only have to read the letters pages to tap into the mentality of some (not all) site users. I have rarely witnessed such petty-mindedness and self-important twaddle as some of the stuff selected members write.

 

Of course many members can and will rise above all of this and good for them.

 

The problem remains though that regimentation and pettiness are entrenched at every level and if you are to use sites there is the very real prospect that these attitudes will seep into your holiday experience.

 

If you don't notice these attitudes, the word of the day is: introspection.

[hughman]

crinklystarfish - 2013-05-20 11:52 AM

 

They both produce their own magazines.

 

You only have to casually read these to see that both organisations are terribly serious about governance and pettiness. I do not know, but suspect the demographic of those influencing policy would reveal a majority of gentlemen of a certain age, of a certain colour, and of a certain mindset.

 

Equally, you only have to read the letters pages to tap into the mentality of some (not all) site users. I have rarely witnessed such petty-mindedness and self-important twaddle as some of the stuff selected members write.

 

.

 

Too right!!