Pinkemwenes Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Hi everyone! I'm afraid I may be the annoying newbie who knows far too little considering what I and my family are about to embark on! Myself, husband, 4 year old and 2 year old are setting off on a 3 month tour of Europe in a little over 2 weeks. I thought we had it figured out, but an evening of googling last night showed we really don't. Our plan was to stay in aires. But I have heard so many horror stories on my googling quest, I'm now unsure that it is the safest thing to do with small children. Plus if we will even be allowed to stay on them. Thing is, our 'motorhome' is a converted van. It has sleeping areas but that's about it. With no running water or toilet facilities will aires allow us on, and do they allow awnings? We were relying on an awning for a bit of extra space. My second question/concern is campsites. After a search last night I discovered camping in Europe is not at all cheap. Are there decent ish (nothing fancy) campsites that will be easy enough to find when on the road? I plan to purchase all the aires books and a good map of campsites, is there any you could suggest? Feeling extremely overwhelmed at the moment! :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddies104 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Hi Try looking at (google) ACSI. Cost is either 12/14/16 euro per night with pitch and EH, and toilet facilities..very good sites. Camping Cheques.. Cost £14.95 per night (Alan Rogers group) with EH, Toilet Block, and usually swimming pool etc.. Both good ways of a good site with all you need for kids... We are off next week and using Camping Cheques via a Silver card, just put the cheques on a card, and then hand over the card at each site, no need for cash.. The Internet will explain further Good luck..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 does your van have windows? as if not recognised as a camper you may run into difficulties.. Most aires are just parking areas for motorhomes, and not really co-pathetic with family camping, you cant camp or let the kids run around, as its basically a carpark, with moving vehicles and open access, plus they have no facilities (except water and dumping) so to me they are a non starter as your van not really a proper camper if no water and toilet..I mean you can get a porta potty for £40 *-) much better a municipal campsite (a french thing) cheap, relatively secure, all the facilities you need, plus kids can play and you can spread out and relax and use the awning....you can find cheap campsites in Spain and Italy but you will need a decent book or two. Sounds like you have hardly done any research to be honest which is fine but you have children's well being to consider.... this website shows municipals in france http://www.camping-municipal.org/ camping in spain for longer stays on good sites for approx £10 a night, thats on a nice site with pool etc.. and a chance of decent weather. just use the internet or ask back on here for recommendations.. Italy: http://www.easycamping.it/en/ Oh and by the way just do it you will have a great time. I did similar when younger with a very basically converted V dub, and we had a great time..and made it to Greek islands :-D EDIT: One thing that concerns me (retired H&S advisor :-S) is cooking in the van and gas bottles. Proper campers are compartmentalised? what this means is gas is sealed away from vehicle interior for gas safety and ventilated for gas use. IF you are just carrying gas loose and using in situ there is a risk of death for the lot of you. and I guess you will also be tempted to use the burner to take the chill of at night if you have no heating, so doubly dangerous.... I hope that sounds scary as its supposed to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWO Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Hi I think you are going to have a few problems with your holiday. aire's are basically car parks,a lot have fresh water and were to empty your toilets ,some have electricity and that's about your lot. Awnings are not realy allowed and in a lot of case's there will not be room between the vans(think carpark). I travelled thro Europe many years ago with 2 little darlings like you and even when we started in a tent we took some sort of mobile toilet with us. It makes life much easier. I think your best bet would be to look for cheaper sites, as someone suggested the ASCI offers good deals out of the season,and some of the French municipal sites are reasonbly cheap. I think the kids would be better of on a site as well,there would be more chance for them to interact with other kids, which again makes life easier for you. Sorry but I think you will have lots of problems if you try to stick to just Aires for your holiday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I suspect that the " horror stories " you have heard are about Aires on motorways - which are NOT recommended places to stay overnight. They are just like our service areas on motorways but often with no filling stations or restaurants. Only should be used for a break / picnic. The freshwater supplies on motorhome aires are for filling up your own tanks / containers - they are not washing facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 'Aires' are really a French preserve but similar entities exist in selected other European countries on a less abundant scale. They are a mixed bag and are administered and managed on an individual basis. They generally do not allow full 'camping' as such, so no awnings etc. In the main they are supposed to support a brief stay / sleepover. Most do not have full toilet facilities but water is generally available (sometimes at a cost). You could maybe survive by using them but they aren't really geared up for your circumstances. Once outside of France / Germany you might really begin to struggle 'aires' become less abundant, in some countries there is (in simple terms) no such entity. Relying upon them solely could be hard work and maybe quite stressful. Some campsites are cheap(ish) and the advice above is good. Given your lack of independence in terms of water / sanitation they are the logical choice. You could survive without them but you will be on an almost permanent quest for basic amenities, and with two small children... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Go to camping shop today, and buy a porta-potti type toilet, to keep in the van. You are going to need it. Get one with as big a holding cassette tank (the bottom part of it) as you can afford. Aires are safe as houses on the continent, use them with confidence. (except the layby/service station areas on motorways - don't ever stop in them overnight). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Hi, It may be worth reading about French Passion. This could work out a little more economic for you. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocro Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Most municipal sites are very egalitarian and welcome all to their facilities ,back packers, cyclo tourists, campers in cars/vans ,caravans and motorhomes. There is generally no snobbishness as to the different forms of accommodation used. Alas they are starting to disappear as local authorities are selling them off to free enterprises and the prices are on the rise. Definitely recommend for your ambitions, you could also try some of the Camping a la Fermes also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 derek pringle - 2013-05-21 9:07 AM Hi, It may be worth reading about French Passion. This could work out a little more economic for you. cheers derek Members are supposed to be self-contained, ie all amenities on-board. More generally, the OP is also talking about Europe and though many people don't seem to realise, some of that lies beyond French borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkemwenes Posted May 21, 2013 Author Share Posted May 21, 2013 Thank you everyone! Yes we have pretty much written off staying on aires. It's just not going to be practical. I'm going to check out all these other suggestions. I did find a site called flowerscamping.com which is camping in France. The prices are much more affordable. I think for our first few weeks we will be booking sites and planning our route then after that hopefully we'll have a feel for how things work and we can be a bit more free with our itinerary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkemwenes Posted May 21, 2013 Author Share Posted May 21, 2013 Sorry I meant to say, no worries on the gas front. We won't be cooking at all in the van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Pinkemwenes - 2013-05-21 9:45 AM Sorry I meant to say, no worries on the gas front. We won't be cooking at all in the van. Good to hear! :-D The website I linked to has all the french aires by region with prices etc...so easy to plan Do you have a plan as to where you are heading? ebay: porta potties from £20 ;-) http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0&_nkw=porta+potty&_sacat=0&_from=R40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkemwenes Posted May 21, 2013 Author Share Posted May 21, 2013 The rough plan is through France to Italy, Austria, Spain, Portugal then a proper look through France on the way back. We have to go straight to Italy to drop a friend there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Pinkemwenes - 2013-05-21 10:41 AM The rough plan is through France to Italy, Austria, Spain, Portugal then a proper look through France on the way back. We have to go straight to Italy to drop a friend there. You pass through Austria or switzerland to get to Italy (if you want to do it quickly and cheaply) So Italy, south of france around into Spain/Portugal sounds a good plan.... a porta pottie gives you a great amount of freedom particularly with little ones..you can then stop on an aire or wild camp occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel wood Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Pinkemwenes - 2013-05-21 9:44 AM Thank you everyone! Yes we have pretty much written off staying on aires. It's just not going to be practical. I'm going to check out all these other suggestions. I did find a site called flowerscamping.com which is camping in France. The prices are much more affordable. I think for our first few weeks we will be booking sites and planning our route then after that hopefully we'll have a feel for how things work and we can be a bit more free with our itinerary. If you don't have one already already, Id recommend that you get a good scale European atlas. The ACSI books/card will be great until the end of next month/early July. (ie until High Season begins - when the discounts no longer apply.) I would also recommend that you buy the Caravan Club Camping Europe Books for the countries you will be visiting. The entries are supplied by members and cover most types of campsites. The entries are usually pretty fair in their descriptions of sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Pinkemwenes - 2013-05-21 9:44 AM I think for our first few weeks we will be booking sites and planning our route then after that hopefully we'll have a feel for how things work and we can be a bit more free with our itinerary. At this time of tear it is highly unlikely that you will need to book anywhere. We have never booked anything on the continent, and by arriving on sites 3 - 4 pm, have never failed to get a place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Agree with the above except that you may have trouble with getting onto sites later into your trip. You say you leave in about two weeks for three months, which implies you will be away June, July, and August. Personal view, but I think your itinerary too long for just three months, and I also think it will place you in the hottest places at the hottest (and most expensive/crowded), time of year. Your (presumably) uninsulated van will turn into an oven during the day, when you will roast. Even if insulated, it will still get very hot inside when in the sun - which it will be when on the road. You don't say how far into any of these countries you will go, but if you head south in Spain/Italy you should anticipate temperatures above 35C, maybe up to 40C. You will have trouble cooling down inside at night as the temperatures stay quite high until the small hours, but often drop quite quickly just before dawn. Anticipate disturbed nights! Even with windows vans can take a very long time to cool down. If your van has cab aircon you should be fairly OK while travelling, but the output won't cool the whole volume, it isn't designed to do so. Sorry to be a party pooper, but I can foresee two very hot, very grumpy, very tired children, getting very bored with being cooped up in a van for hours on end. Lets say you just do Calais, Florence, Barcelona, Bordeaux, and back to Calais. Total distance about 2,400 miles. Approximate driving time, assuming you drive 10:00 to 16:00 with only a one hour break, would be in the order of 8 days. No time for washing clothes/bedding, no time for shopping. My reaction would be to be less ambitious, and save a bit for later! Take the trip in small stages, and see how it goes. Your children may take to it like ducks to water, or the moving around may leave them feeling quite lost, confused, and disoriented. I suspect you will probably head for sites with pools or beaches, because small children have a limited tolerance of scenery, historic towns, or grand palaces. :-) That will put you alongside a huge chunk of the population of Europe in July/August when trying to get into sites (or aires), and will prove costly in the popular spots. Do also be aware that many sites in coastal Italy/Spain have in excess of 1,000 pitches, that will likely all be full in high summer, so wandering children will not make for an especially relaxing time! But above all else, do research the places you want to visit and stay. You'll still have the freedom to vary your plan as you go, and to abandon it at will, but knowing the rough shape of the trip at the outset should allow you to decide when enough has become too much, and avoid that helter-skelter rush to be at the next place tomorrow, because the following step depends on that being achieved. If you only do France and some of Italy so what? The rest will still be there next year! :-) I'd add to the ACSI book (and if taking a laptop the ACSI disk, which has many more sites, most not in the discount scheme - which shouldn't worry you as the scheme only operates "off season"), the Caravan Club Caravan Europe guides. Unfortunately, you'll need all three to cover all the countries, and they're around £15 per volume for non-members, but they are written by people who have stayed on the sites, not by roaming inspectors, so IMO are more reliable. Good luck whatever you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 With children and without facilities you would be better staying on Municipal camp sites there you can put up your awning which you cant on Aires . Have a look on this site and see if you can make a list of places and prices, even with the ACSI sites you might end up paying more than you can afford if they are charging p.p so plan carefully you don't want to be stuck with children on board!! I would also be shelling out on a portapoti as not many aires have toilet facilities they are aimed at motorhomes that are fully equipped with toilet shower etc; where you only need to take water on board and dumping grey water and toilet. Good luck, we managed camping for years with 4 children in either tent or trailer tent . http://www.camping-municipal.org/index.htm :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkemwenes Posted May 21, 2013 Author Share Posted May 21, 2013 So I thought I had at least France figured out. I don't :( the site websites are all in French so I can't make head nor tail of them! Rapidly losing enthusiasm here. I think we are going to skip Austria. So France, italy, Spain and Portugal if we have time. That better? I feel like a duck out of water. What's the worse that will happen if we don't book sites but just find places as we go along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 If you just set off and freestyled it, you would manage, you'd have to. How enjoyable it will be will largely be down to the kind of people you are. Some thrive on challenge and adventure, some despise it. Some days would be great, some probably dire. Some days you'll bag a nice cheap site, some days you'll probably have to camp on whatever bit of public land you can find. The answers lie with you and your partner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Pinkemwenes - 2013-05-21 11:08 PM So I thought I had at least France figured out. I don't :( the site websites are all in French so I can't make head nor tail of them! Rapidly losing enthusiasm here. I think we are going to skip Austria. So France, italy, Spain and Portugal if we have time. That better? I feel like a duck out of water. What's the worse that will happen if we don't book sites but just find places as we go along? For the third time...this site which can be viewed in English , as can any site if you view with google chrome? http://www.camping-municipal.org/ It has a good few municipals and only in French when you select a particular site? But this hardly difficult as it has the price and basic info which is easily understandable.....if site has a website it has a link which again can be viewed in English..... iF you have to go to Italy first ( you have not said where) cheapest route and free motorway most of he way. Is roughly Calais...Lille...Namur....luxenburgh (cheap fuel) ....strasburgh......Germany......Austria.......Italy Or pay the vignette and go via Switzerland ....really depends where in italy you are heading. Are you intending to camp as you travel as you say you will be cooking outside etc.....and van hardly a camper by the sound of it? as this would be a more sensible approach I think...it gets very hot in the south high season. I would sleep in van occasionally, get somewhere nice and camp. Don't get despondent, I guarantee you won't regret it and will have a memorable trip..... :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Pinkemwenes - 2013-05-22 12:08 AM So I thought I had at least France figured out. I don't :( the site websites are all in French so I can't make head nor tail of them! Rapidly losing enthusiasm here. I think we are going to skip Austria. So France, italy, Spain and Portugal if we have time. That better? I feel like a duck out of water. What's the worse that will happen if we don't book sites but just find places as we go along? You're going to France. Of course they'll be in French. As will every shop sign, road sign, menu and any other piece of paper/instruction/notice that you'll see once you get there. Have you really thought about how you're going to survive there for weeks/months if you really can't even make head or tail of a website in French? For websites not in English, to get a general idea of what all those johnny foreigners are banging on about you can copy and paste the bits of writing on the web-page into Google Translate: http://translate.google.com/ As for a tour plan: For my money, given the size of France, and knowing how incredibly hot it gets in the summer down here in Spain, I'd be tempted just to spend the time tootling around France: only moving on from one site/Aire to another every few days, so you get a chance to actually see/experience the places you are staying at. You and the kids will simply fry in a tin-box panel van in southern/Eastern Spain in high summer. The kids will also surely enjoy that more than simply driving for hours every day? It'll also save you a lot of fuel money, and if you stay off French motorways and bimble around on their N roads and smaller roads, you save a lot of money by not paying the hefty motorway tolls,and see MUCH more of the country too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 BGD - 2013-05-22 9:11 AM For websites not in English, to get a general idea of what all those johnny foreigners are banging on about you can copy and paste the bits of writing on the web-page into Google Translate: http://translate.google.com/ Even better download and install the "Google Translate" add on, one click on the google button will translate almost any web page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkemwenes Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 Gosh, so many patronising replies. Thanks for all your 'help' but really I think I need to find a forum that isn't full of total condescending know it alls. I'm a newbie needing advice, not to be made to feel a total idiot, which I can assure you I am not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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