Guest 1footinthegrave Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 What's with the "elderly driver / couple" bit in the report, how is that relevant, but I have to say given that I was once a HGV class one licence holder,with the resulting thorough training, the idea of towing ANY car on the back of a glorified van without any training, or demonstration of competence has always seemed insane to me, ditto caravans, and we all know how many of those end up upside down on the motorway despite the anti snake devices and alko couplings......................I'll await the inevitable flack. (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 Missed edit deadline: Having just re-read this again(properly this time :$ ),there's one line in my previous post that should have read: "... it appears as if a someone hasn't bothered reading your recent "update" post correctly.." ;-) I agree with you about the need for training where towing is concerned 1foot'..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 pepe63 - 2013-07-17 9:16 AM Missed edit deadline: Having just re-read this again(properly this time :$ ),there's one line in my previous post that should have read: "... it appears as if a someone hasn't bothered reading your recent "update" post correctly.." ;-) I agree with you about the need for training where towing is concerned 1foot'..... If you're referring to me I posted for one reason only, which was because some people were already attributing blame to the Honda driver by suggesting that he may not have even noticed that the Renault was being towed! And I had read Dave Newell's further post but surmised, and correctly it would appear, that this was the version given to him by the motorhome drive, whom we may assume could be rather biased. The only official statement I've read on this came from the police who said: "A Lancashire Police spokesman said the camper van, which was travelling in the middle lane, came close to colliding with the Honda, which was in the third lane." Now this to me implies that the motorhome drifted into the Honda! But of course it may well be sloppy writing on behalf of the police spokesperson. I do not know who caused this accident. It may well have been the Honda which drifted into the motorhome. We'll only know if and when there's a court case with witnesses. I had no intention of responding to Dave Newell's last post as we cannot shed any further light onto the subject. Your post however, simply seems to have been created to criticise and further inflame the thread, What we should do now is wait to see if there is a court case and if there are witnesses as to what actually happened. All it does for me is to strengthen my belief that we need tougher laws regarding towing skills and that we also need to re-examine drivers when they reach a certain age. Please note that I am not suggesting that, in this case, age was a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I can remember a time when you reached the age of 21 you could quite legally get straight from a car into an artic, with no test whatsoever, just imagine how absurd that would appear today. In time to come the same realisation will dawn that it is equally insane for a car driver to climb into his house on wheels and tow a car all over the place. I'm not saying or apportioning blame in this case, but surely having a Renault Megane on a tow ball ain't going to help safety or stability of the outfit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-07-17 10:35 AM ...I'm not saying or apportioning blame in this case, but surely having a Renault Megane on a tow ball ain't going to help safety or stability of the outfit That was(is) pretty much what I'd posted over on page one... The reason I criticized the "bickering" earlier, was quite simply because Dave N had quite clearly resurrected the thread in order to pass on firsthand news, of how the driver(and passenger) of the MH were doing "medically"..and as these people are known to Dave, it therefore struck me that this wasn't the platform on which folk would start arguing over, who knows What...When...and How?..etc ,as it just seemed in *poor taste... :-S (*Let's keep that trait in Chatterbox eh?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickydripin Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Purely to clarify a point that some have raised, the Megane DID have an "ON TOW" sign at its rear and a pair of reflective triangles. D. Dave, your reference above, is it correct that it is illegal to put an on tow sign on a car that is being towed with an A frame but ok to put on reflective triangles I was told this by Car-a-tow when I had mine fitted also I was told that I must put a sign similar to the one that you put on for a bike rack. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Don't know, don't care, not going to discuss further thanks. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Difficult to judge the type of van from the photo though it appears to be fairly old from the squared bodywork shape. But why a Renault Megane as a tow car?? After all there were only two people with the van. I don't get the logic of some MH folk at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Bulletguy - 2013-07-17 11:20 AM Difficult to judge the type of van from the photo though it appears to be fairly old from the squared bodywork shape. But why a Renault Megane as a tow car?? After all there were only two people with the van. I don't get the logic of some MH folk at all. As far as I recall it was a mid 2000s Fiat Ducato based motorhome, the Renault Megane weighs around 1200KGs from what I can find on 't'internet so not exceptionally heavy for a Ducato to pull. I don't get the need to tow a car at all when on holiday but plenty do it, does that make it wrong? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 One could argue its totally illogical, my pal has a thumping great Autotrail, he tows a smart car behind, arrives on a site, parks up the motorhome for the duration, and goes off in his Smart car for the day leaving all his creature comforts behind, under these circumstances he has a very expensive circu 60/70 grand 3 litre automatic 4 wheeled caravan from what I can see. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-07-17 9:00 PM One could argue its totally illogical, my pal has a thumping great Autotrail, he tows a smart car behind, arrives on a site, parks up the motorhome for the duration, and goes off in his Smart car for the day leaving all his creature comforts behind, under these circumstances he has a very expensive circu 60/70 grand 3 litre automatic 4 wheeled caravan from what I can see. :-S But that's what he wants to do so it's okay! :D Sometimes logic just doesn't come into it . Your pal must like his large motorhome and the space it gives him and also like to drive his Smart which are an absolute hoot to tootle around in! Towing a Smart with a big motorhome will be much more relaxing than towing a large caravan with any car, probably a Tonka toy type (not the Smart of course!), then you have the problem of trying to park a Tonka toy when you go out for the day, whereas parking a Smart is easy-peasy. Don't forget that the cost for a large caravan and large tow-car will probably be the same as a large motorhome and small car, so cost wise there's likely to be nothing in it. Also setting-up a motorhome on site is much easier and quicker than setting-up a caravan - even my ex-boss who's got a nice big caravan and car to match still 'dreams' of having a motorhome as it would be so quick to get sorted on site, it wouldn't suit his way of holidaying at all, but he still envies the simplicity and speed! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Drifting wildly off topic;the difference between a motorhome and car combo and a caravan and 'tonka truck' whist capital cost may be similar,its when you arrive at a club site;caravans and cars pay the usual pitch fees,motorhome towing a car,bike or trike,pay extra! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Mel B - 2013-07-17 9:25 PM 1footinthegrave - 2013-07-17 9:00 PM One could argue its totally illogical, my pal has a thumping great Autotrail, he tows a smart car behind, arrives on a site, parks up the motorhome for the duration, and goes off in his Smart car for the day leaving all his creature comforts behind, under these circumstances he has a very expensive circu 60/70 grand 3 litre automatic 4 wheeled caravan from what I can see. :-S But that's what he wants to do so it's okay! :D Sometimes logic just doesn't come into it . Your pal must like his large motorhome and the space it gives him and also like to drive his Smart which are an absolute hoot to tootle around in! Towing a Smart with a big motorhome will be much more relaxing than towing a large caravan with any car, probably a Tonka toy type (not the Smart of course!), then you have the problem of trying to park a Tonka toy when you go out for the day, whereas parking a Smart is easy-peasy. Don't forget that the cost for a large caravan and large tow-car will probably be the same as a large motorhome and small car, so cost wise there's likely to be nothing in it. Also setting-up a motorhome on site is much easier and quicker than setting-up a caravan - even my ex-boss who's got a nice big caravan and car to match still 'dreams' of having a motorhome as it would be so quick to get sorted on site, it wouldn't suit his way of holidaying at all, but he still envies the simplicity and speed! :-D Sorry I don't get it, his last trip was to Italy, the M/home stayed onsite all of the time, as it always does he tells me, then ( despite your opinion having driven a Smart ) goes off in what can only be described as a bumping car, with about as much finesse as one, and he has no access to the very thing for us a motor-home excels in, always having our ensuite, fully fitted, home from home with us at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Had Enough Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-07-17 10:38 PM Mel B - 2013-07-17 9:25 PM 1footinthegrave - 2013-07-17 9:00 PM One could argue its totally illogical, my pal has a thumping great Autotrail, he tows a smart car behind, arrives on a site, parks up the motorhome for the duration, and goes off in his Smart car for the day leaving all his creature comforts behind, under these circumstances he has a very expensive circu 60/70 grand 3 litre automatic 4 wheeled caravan from what I can see. :-S But that's what he wants to do so it's okay! :D Sometimes logic just doesn't come into it . Your pal must like his large motorhome and the space it gives him and also like to drive his Smart which are an absolute hoot to tootle around in! Towing a Smart with a big motorhome will be much more relaxing than towing a large caravan with any car, probably a Tonka toy type (not the Smart of course!), then you have the problem of trying to park a Tonka toy when you go out for the day, whereas parking a Smart is easy-peasy. Don't forget that the cost for a large caravan and large tow-car will probably be the same as a large motorhome and small car, so cost wise there's likely to be nothing in it. Also setting-up a motorhome on site is much easier and quicker than setting-up a caravan - even my ex-boss who's got a nice big caravan and car to match still 'dreams' of having a motorhome as it would be so quick to get sorted on site, it wouldn't suit his way of holidaying at all, but he still envies the simplicity and speed! :-D Sorry I don't get it, his last trip was to Italy, the M/home stayed onsite all of the time, as it always does he tells me, then ( despite your opinion having driven a Smart ) goes off in what can only be described as a bumping car, with about as much finesse as one, and he has no access to the very thing for us a motor-home excels in, always having our ensuite, fully fitted, home from home with us at all times. Perhaps you should tell him that you know better than he does what suits him best? Of course when he goes off in his small car he can park, doesn't worry about height barriers and can go to places he couldn't go to in his motorhome. A chap I know does this. In winter he spends a couple of months on a site in Portugal. He takes his small car and says it's great for getting around. In summer he goes off touring and just takes the motorhome, as he's constantly moving on. Seems to me that he gets the best of both worlds. People aren't stupid, they do what suits them best. It wouldn't suit me but if you do stay on a site for a long period over the winter you may have an awning out and windbreaks etc. Moving the motorhome every day or so would be a nightmare! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I don't have any monopoly on knowing what suits anybody, I just expressed the view it seems illogical to me, and I simply did not get it, and it certainly wouldn't suit me as I enjoy the facilities in my van 24/7, not left behind on some campsite miles away, anyway thats it pal just a view, aren't we all entitled to one. He probably thinks I'm nuts going off for months at a time in our relatively small PVC, but then we have the advantage that if a car can get there, so can I ( well in France at least ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Going off topic again. If this godforsaken country was more accommodating with parking facilities for motorhomes parking at attractions and in towns,instead of the 'traveller paranoia',there would not be a necessity for people to tow a car. These are usually people who cannot ride a bike motor or pedal. In any case even a Smart car boot can carry more shopping than cycle panniers,especially bottles. When we have been able to park when shopping we can then load directly into the van and do tend to buy more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 yeti - 2013-07-17 10:10 PM Drifting wildly off topic;the difference between a motorhome and car combo and a caravan and 'tonka truck' whist capital cost may be similar,its when you arrive at a club site;caravans and cars pay the usual pitch fees,motorhome towing a car,bike or trike,pay extra! Not on a Caravan club site. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-07-18 3:37 AM I don't have any monopoly on knowing what suits anybody, I just expressed the view it seems illogical to me, and I simply did not get it, and it certainly wouldn't suit me as I enjoy the facilities in my van 24/7, not left behind on some campsite miles away, anyway thats it pal just a view, aren't we all entitled to one. He probably thinks I'm nuts going off for months at a time in our relatively small PVC, but then we have the advantage that if a car can get there, so can I ( well in France at least ). The (well in France at least) bit sums it all up really, the van turned over on the M6 in the the UK. All of the motorhomes i see towing cars, nearly all with A-Frames rather than trailers, are in the UK (I don't go to France , or at least not yet). The very reason I want to tow a car is because the UK has put in place punitive anti-Motorhome parking laws, NOT just for 'overnighting' which I can understand to a certain extent, but for ANY parking at all , even, for heavens sake in 'Park and ride' carparks !!!!! which are surely to keep excess and unsuitable vehicles OUT of a City centre?? and even when the aforsaid Carparks are virtually empty at the early and late ends of the season. We don't venture out during the school holidays at all. The local authorities (many at 'ailing' seaside resorts) are in my opinion crazy to be driving away Tourists. This is based on my own experience this year 3 months touring in Dorset,Devon,North and South and Cornwall. We won't be going back, unless we have a car in tow. I hired a car 3 times on my 'Travels' very inconvenient, although relatively cheap through the Caravan Club from Enterprise. And please don't say a caravan would suit me better, 'cause it wouldn't. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Rayjsj - 2013-07-18 12:11 PM 1footinthegrave - 2013-07-18 3:37 AM I don't have any monopoly on knowing what suits anybody, I just expressed the view it seems illogical to me, and I simply did not get it, and it certainly wouldn't suit me as I enjoy the facilities in my van 24/7, not left behind on some campsite miles away, anyway thats it pal just a view, aren't we all entitled to one. He probably thinks I'm nuts going off for months at a time in our relatively small PVC, but then we have the advantage that if a car can get there, so can I ( well in France at least ). The (well in France at least) bit sums it all up really, the van turned over on the M6 in the the UK. All of the motorhomes i see towing cars, nearly all with A-Frames rather than trailers, are in the UK (I don't go to France , or at least not yet). The very reason I want to tow a car is because the UK has put in place punitive anti-Motorhome parking laws, NOT just for 'overnighting' which I can understand to a certain extent, but for ANY parking at all , even, for heavens sake in 'Park and ride' carparks !!!!! which are surely to keep excess and unsuitable vehicles OUT of a City centre?? and even when the aforsaid Carparks are virtually empty at the early and late ends of the season. We don't venture out during the school holidays at all. The local authorities (many at 'ailing' seaside resorts) are in my opinion crazy to be driving away Tourists. This is based on my own experience this year 3 months touring in Dorset,Devon,North and South and Cornwall. We won't be going back, unless we have a car in tow. I hired a car 3 times on my 'Travels' very inconvenient, although relatively cheap through the Caravan Club from Enterprise. And please don't say a caravan would suit me better, 'cause it wouldn't. Ray Your singing from exactly the same hymn sheet as myself, despite what others may say to the contrary using your motorhome particularly in France and Germany is like comparing the best sex you've ever had, to the worst hangover you've ever had, the hangover being the UK of course, it is not that unusual to see M/homes towing cars or trailers in Europe, and you could just see my pal towing his, but in general I think the reasons are different, for example we met some Brits who had been roaming around Europe for three years, having sold their house in the UK, and do park up for extended periods, motorbikes on trailers seem very popular as well, last trip even a vintage car. I live in a premier resort in Wales, and our last free car park has just gone over to pay and display, with a notice that states "no motorhomes without prior arrangement with the community council", so good luck everyone with that, especially those folk that have it down as a "wilding" spot, oh well roll on September and freedom and La Belle France . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Rayjsj - 2013-07-18 12:11 PM The local authorities (many at 'ailing' seaside resorts) are in my opinion crazy to be driving away Tourists. It's worth mentioning on this point here that it's not only Motorhomes, PVC's etc.......but the car driving public also. Why else do we now have boarded up shops in Town Centres and businesses that have been slow to recognise the power of the internet? My local out of town Supermarket has free car parking and no height barriers so you could easily park anything there. In fairness, local authorities have been under extreme pressure from Government (who don't give a toss), to raise more revenue through punitive taxation on High Street shops forcing many to simply put the shutters up. Greed in a Capitalist society knows no bounds. Of course people will simply take their money elsewhere and even out of the country altogether (many 'brits' left UK long ago!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Bulletguy - 2013-07-18 2:14 PM Rayjsj - 2013-07-18 12:11 PM The local authorities (many at 'ailing' seaside resorts) are in my opinion crazy to be driving away Tourists. It's worth mentioning on this point here that it's not only Motorhomes, PVC's etc.......but the car driving public also. Why else do we now have boarded up shops in Town Centres and businesses that have been slow to recognise the power of the internet? My local out of town Supermarket has free car parking and no height barriers so you could easily park anything there. In fairness, local authorities have been under extreme pressure from Government (who don't give a toss), to raise more revenue through punitive taxation on High Street shops forcing many to simply put the shutters up. Greed in a Capitalist society knows no bounds. Of course people will simply take their money elsewhere and even out of the country altogether (many 'brits' left UK long ago!). A lot of towns in France have the same problem of dying town centres, even though parking is free. The reason is that there is a huge supermarket/hypermarket just outside the town with more choice, lower prices and easier parking. We have known one town very well for 34years and have seen it go from a thriving local centre to a rather sad place where only the pharmacy, butcher and patisserie seem to be doing OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 1footinthegrave - 2013-07-18 1:12 PM I live in a premier resort in Wales . Isn't that an oxymoron? :D . Just joking, I like Wales very much and we are just about to complete an 11 year process of moving to the Welsh Marches; in fact one local journey takes us through Shropshire and Powys a few times. But, aren't the tourists and parking problems the price of choosing to live in such a place? Where we are going has plenty of free parking and no-one worries about the odd bit of wild camping, especially during the beer festival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Muswell - 2013-07-18 5:41 PM 1footinthegrave - 2013-07-18 1:12 PM I live in a premier resort in Wales . Isn't that an oxymoron? :D . Just joking, I like Wales very much and we are just about to complete an 11 year process of moving to the Welsh Marches; in fact one local journey takes us through Shropshire and Powys a few times. But, aren't the tourists and parking problems the price of choosing to live in such a place? Where we are going has plenty of free parking and no-one worries about the odd bit of wild camping, especially during the beer festival. I too live in a busy tourist area (North Pembrokeshire) there used to be many places for motorhomes to park up for the day (and some for overnight too) but the local council has been busy putting up 'No Motorhomes' signs, and making every tiny parking place 'Pay & Display' be glad when September comes and the restrictions are lifted. Also my Dogs favourite beach is 'off limits' while the 'Grockles and their children' are around. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Muswell - 2013-07-18 5:41 PM 1footinthegrave - 2013-07-18 1:12 PM I live in a premier resort in Wales . Isn't that an oxymoron? :D . Just joking, I like Wales very much and we are just about to complete an 11 year process of moving to the Welsh Marches; in fact one local journey takes us through Shropshire and Powys a few times. But, aren't the tourists and parking problems the price of choosing to live in such a place? Where we are going has plenty of free parking and no-one worries about the odd bit of wild camping, especially during the beer festival. I'm not complaining about the tourists,they are the lifeblood of Aberdyfi, and I'm one once I've gone a few miles, I'm complaining that our local community council have now banned motorhomes on the car park right outside my door, with a caveat, five of us that live in the village have m/homes, the land was given to the village for the benefit of the village, consequently we five had been allocated a space each, for a consideration of course, but you should see the bemused looks from other M/home users who spot our vans when they are here, come in to park up, then see the no motorhome signs., given that the average van takes up no more room than some of the huge 4x4s that come here towing boats, leave the trailers down the harbour then park in our car park it is completely illogical, but there you go, I'm only glad us five managed to get our concession otherwise we would have all been screwed. As for the wild camping at the beer festival, just hope some jobsworth copper does not nick them all for being in charge of a vehicle whilst under the influence, as I believe technically they can unless parked up on private land, just another needless hassle in UK plc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 ..But for balance 1foot',didn't you once post, to complain about cheeky buggers pitching their MHs outside your house?...getting their camping chairs and gawping in your window etc ?... :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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