Tracker Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 mondo - 2013-05-24 7:54 PM Whilst I applaud your tenacity to form a website and other info will these sort of overnight Motorhome stopovers alienate the tuggers out there..we know the motorhome fraternity are very self sufficient..but the tuggers out there will start lobbying for use of these "Aires Type" stopovers... As for a name...Motorhome Stops!! Sod the tuggers and tenters! They can't have it all ways - they already occupy much more space on sites than motorhomes and with no awnings allowed on Camperstops that should prevent tenters and tuggers from monopolising them. It's about time their domination, and that of the CCC and CC, of the camping scene was terminated as neither club has ever done bu@@er all to cater for, or help, or promote the use and acceptance of motorhomes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Tracker - 2013-05-24 8:01 PM It's about time their domination, and that of the CCC and CC, of the camping scene was terminated! Hear hear :D...................although I expect they'll be the most vocal behind the scenes to stop any airism spreading in the UK *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambukashot Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 Roger: even if they like the idea will be up against local opposition to these 'Aires' on the grounds that it will encourage 'travellers' to their area and we all know how disruptive and damaging they can be......not to mention the usual spate of thefts that accompany their arrivalBut since an "aire with services" for motorhomes has never been built in the UK from any council there is no proof this will happen, it is not problem in other European countries? so this is only speculation.The website could advise on measures that forsee these problems in advance and provide measures to stop this from occurring in the first place, what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 sambukashot - 2013-05-24 8:26 PM since an "aire with services" for motorhomes has never been built in the UK from any council there is no proof this will happen, it is not problem in other European countries? so this is only speculation. Speculation based on experience. Nobody is trying to be negative but information is power and the more of it you can glean from those who have ventured before the better informed you and the website will become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 whilst I agree council inertia and campsite and caravanners resistance is to be expected, any good idea must be welcome and supported, and this sounds like a good idea from a new direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Don't get us wrong Keith ;-)..................we applaud your efforts B-)..................just letting you know of previous efforts, and of the self serving interests that you will encounter *-)..........But if any time is right then maybe its now with the powers that be looking to preserve their gold plaited pensions >:-).................not that I'm a cynic :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 sambukashot - 2013-05-24 8:26 PMRoger: even if they like the idea will be up against local opposition to these 'Aires' on the grounds that it will encourage 'travellers' to their area and we all know how disruptive and damaging they can be......not to mention the usual spate of thefts that accompany their arrivalBut since an "aire with services" for motorhomes has never been built in the UK from any council there is no proof this will happen, it is not problem in other European countries? so this is only speculation.The website could advise on measures that forsee these problems in advance and provide measures to stop this from occurring in the first place, what do you think? Not having travelled as a motorhomer or other 'wandering traveller' on the continent I can't comment with 'knowledge' on the European situation or if they have the same sort of problems there as we do with 'travellers'. However in the UK there is a big problem with 'travellers' pitching up and despoiling wherever and whenever they seem to feel like it. Ergo if and I emphasise 'if' any council decided to build an 'Aire' it seems obvious to me that eventually it would attract these 'undesirables'. No matter what you advise or what procedures are put in place if they have, or can gain access to the site they will occupy it 'eventually' and we all know what happens then. A short while back Central government required 'all' councils to come up with 'approved' sites for 'travellers'. In my area there were two proposed which would have provided hardstandings/toilet facilities etc.....an 'Aire' in any other name. Fortunately neither were deemed suitable on the grounds that they were too close to the resident populace and in one instance it was not on a bus route or close enough to doctor surgery or the local schools??? Basically it is all too apparent that if a Council provides an area of hardstanding with or without facilities it 'will' eventually be the target of a group of travellers. With that comes the cost of removing them and the subsequent clean up costs. Couple that with, as I said before the inevitable thieving etc and I think you will see that any council, unless forced by Central Government will not be willing to provide these facilities. I think all the proof you need is to look around at the areas of 'open' ground in some towns and see the 'restriction of access' measures that are in place. In Chippenham the Council has had to erect substantial fencing around some areas of open ground and farmers regularly place tree trunks weighing tons in their field entrances to prevent these people gaining access. I wish there were 'Aires' here in the UK but I honestly believe that until the 'traveller' issue is resolved it will be a non starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Realistically with all councils strapped for cash they are never going to be seen to be supporting a minority of more wealthy and, as seen by some elitist leisure pursuit followers, of the UK and EU. The best you can hope for is for them to allow paid for overnight parking in car parks and a lowering of resistance and antagonism those private investors who are prepared to put their own money into creating facilities for motorhomers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambukashot Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 All interesting responces!Please keep them coming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambukashot Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 Torridge council dont seem to bothered about the threat of travellers?New Motor Home Overnight Parking from Torridge CouncilAs from 15th March 2013, Motor Home overnight parking will be introduced in the following car parks:- •Riverbank (long stay) Car Park, Bideford. EX39 2QS •Churchfields Car Park, Appledore, EX39 1RL •Westward Ho! (Main) Car Park, EX39 1LG •The Manor Car Park, Holsworthy, EX22 6DJ •Sydney House Car Park, Torrington, EX38 8AAThe charge will be £5 per night (any period between 6pm and 10am) and tickets can be purchased from the Pay & Display machines situated in the car park. Please note that motor homes should be parked with a distance of 6 meters between vehicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 sambukashot - 2013-05-24 9:37 PMTorridge council dont seem to bothered about the threat of travellers?New Motor Home Overnight Parking from Torridge CouncilAs from 15th March 2013, Motor Home overnight parking will be introduced in the following car parks:- •Riverbank (long stay) Car Park, Bideford. EX39 2QS•Churchfields Car Park, Appledore, EX39 1RL•Westward Ho! (Main) Car Park, EX39 1LG•The Manor Car Park, Holsworthy, EX22 6DJ•Sydney House Car Park, Torrington, EX38 8AAThe charge will be £5 per night (any period between 6pm and 10am) and tickets can be purchased from the Pay & Display machines situated in the car park. Please note that motor homes should be parked with a distance of 6 meters between vehiclesProgress eh? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambukashot Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 Here is recent article about a Yorkshireman called Andy Strangeway who following a legal threat to Inverness council forced the removal of Highland lay-by signs warning motorhome visitors of "No overnight parking" so another small victory!The tides do turn sometimes...Read the full article here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 One potential entry on such a website, that may /may not have an impact. Invite the councillors to discuss with any town they are "twinned" with in France, |Germany, etc., They could then obtain information "direct from the horse's mouth" as to the cost in providing a facility, potential benefits or disadvantages. (?) Unfortunately, they (the councillors) are of the opinion that there is sufficient facilities provided by commercial sites in our area & I suspect many other tourist areas may take the same view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Surely though if there are proper legal enforced bylaws restrictiing to 48 hrs max stay and a pay and display charge of £5 a night the Travellers wont stay. They wont want to pay and if they exceed the maximum stay they can legally be towed off (or am I being naive?) There are occasionally Aires and Sostas that get occupied with travellers to be fair but not many and they are soon shifted (well they are over there). I dont see why tuggers would object. Whats it got to do with them? They are not self contained single vehicles that would take one place so it isnt suitable for them. They need sites or CL's. As for names. I would stick with either camper stop or motorhome stopover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 "Stopover" apparently has some provenance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layover and seems to be appropriate for what forum members are seeking, so I suggest that's as good a word to use as any. "Motorhome stopover" is also in current use http://www.motorhomestopover.co.uk/ "Camper" is too generic - if dedicated motorhome overnight-parking is the objective, then the term for that facility should logically include the word "motorhome". Barryd999 - 2013-05-24 11:31 PM Surely though if there are proper legal enforced bylaws restrictiing to 48 hrs max stay and a pay and display charge of £5 a night the Travellers wont stay. They wont want to pay and if they exceed the maximum stay they can legally be towed off (or am I being naive?) Unfortunately, it ain't that simple in the UK... http://www.kidderminstershuttle.co.uk/news/10315535.Travellers_pitch_caravans_on_Stourport_car_park/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 As before, the 'threat' is not necessarily perceived to be what are commonly referred to as gypsies. Travelling gypsies do not tend to target formal parking areas but scraps of wasteland. The 'threat' are motorhome users themselves. Many, many threads have covered this before but suffice to say from a council's perspective, given the infrastructure and culture within the UK, we are not an attractive user group. And truth be told, their fears are often well-founded. We are asking councils to fund areas that may be properly argued to cause visual blight, be the source of noise pollution, be the source of litter pollution, be the source of excrement pollution - all on the back of some tiny and speculative benefit to the local economy. Local communities do not want us. The occasional shopkeeper might, but communities in general do not. Add to the fact that, demonstrably, motorhome users themselves are apathetic in the extreme about pushing for these facilities and, well, join the dots. I do think a resource such as the website proposed is a forward step. I am also quite sure that a drive for UK 'aires' needs to be driven by the organisation that is actually legally charged with the responsibility to increase / enhance tourism within the UK. THEY should be providing the central resources and putting pressure on local authorities. I don't care enough, but anyone that does should be getting them on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambukashot Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 I am starting to see some common concerns from the feedback so far, which helps!1. The councils willbe put off with problems from gypsies/travellers taking over2. Totally against the idea because of the upset from local campsite, cs/cl owners in their area3. The cost of such aproject4. Residents might object to the ideaSo all of the above points (and more) could be addressed on the website at least then a council/councillor could read about the issues and have a better understanding of the problems they might be up against and some answers/solutions to those problems.Maybe the suggestion of an aires type system will be a big non-starter in certain regions of the UK because ofthe problems summarised above but not all regions/areas will have a problem with some of the points mentioned, take for example a small village or town somewhere, they might not have any gypsies around, no campsites and local business that really want and need tourists in their area and that local council are ok for money they just need agood idea to spend it on, this type will probably be one of the first to start an aires and welcome us with open arms.As for the naming of an overnight parking spot, some good ideas, if we use the word “Motorhome” in the description then we alienate the smaller campervans which would use the facilities as well, don’t want to use the words “site or park” as they would upset campsite owners, the term layover is typically American, night stop is probably a too generic but I do like the idea of Camper Stop I can see the signs now with a logo above:Camper Stop - 48hr Max Stay AllowedPlease keep the discussion open and alive and thanks for allyour input so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Perhaps link the idea with cycling, our council ( Gwynedd ) despite these so called times of cutbacks have, and continue to spend thousands and thousands on cycle paths, mainly for tourists as a part of encouraging visitors, mind you they are a bit muddle headed as they also continue to instal height barriers in parking areas, so perhaps you have to come here on your bikes only :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Might be more palatable to convey a sense of a short-term stay, so something like Temporary Camper Stop or similar. It would also weaken the expectation of 'drifters' being allowed to stay unmolested for weeks on end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambukashot Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 Good idea!Or even just "Short Term" Camper Stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Although I am not a great user of aires I find the negative comments on here by people who use them in europe irritating. If someone is willing to put the work in and give it a go he deserves support, it may not work but doing nothing about it certainly will not. Why only councils, for example a cafe not far from where I live, in Capel Curig, has had a notice out for over a year, £5 a night for overnight stops. It is quite a decent place to stop but i have never seen it used, lack of publicity maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 All I see is people giving the bloke a lot of support and a realistic heads-up. The resource he's talking about isn't just for councils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambukashot Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 Yes Rupert you are right, the website would be all about the promotion and information needed for setting up an "aire" so it could be used by private individuals, motorway service stations ect who wish to set something up not just local councils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Following on from what Henry says, a large amount of Stellplatz in Germany are private. What will be need is to get the councils to change their by-laws for example our local council like many has ones prohibiting the sleeping, cooking and using toilet facilities in vehicles. Not an insurmountable problem but it may take time, our biggest problem is going to be persuading the councillors themselves unfortunately with our system of local government they are unpaid elected officials who are more concerned about getting re-elected rather than actually doing anything that may be a bit controversial. If we all band together and put pressure on our local councils with a bit of luck we may move things in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambukashot Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 What will be need is to get the councils to change their by-laws for example our local council like many has ones prohibiting the sleeping, cooking and using toilet facilities in vehiclesI think they are a bit above themselves, i will cook, sleep and use the toilet, it has nothing to do with them what i do within my motorhome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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