Aires for the UK

[sambukashot]

I have made more updates to the website today -:)

Now you can make suggestions and ideas on what the website should provide direct...

Take a look when you have 5 mins: www.camperstops.org try it out!

[sambukashot]

Great to see the comments and votes starting to add to the websites content: http://www.camperstops.org/index.php/i-can-help-with-ideas-for-a-camper-stop/cast-your-vote

Thank you!

[Tracker]

I don't want to be pedantic but I think the wording (and spelling!) needs improving?

Perhaps not quite right but dwe need to dispel the impression that some motorhomes don't have water/waste services - which would make them more of a van than a camper - as with 'travellers' - if you see what I mean.

 

Quote

 

A "Camper Stop" is the UK name for a dedicated parking area where motorhomes and campervans can park up for the night whilst visiting an area or passing through en-route

 

They can be either:

 

1. A simple overnight parking only area with larger bays to accomodate motorhomes that have no water/waste services

 

2. An ovenight parking area with larger bays to accomodate motorhomes that include a service point to empty waste water tanks and a fresh water tap.

 

Quote

 

 

Revised.

 

A 'Camper Stop' is the UK name for a dedicated parking area where motorcaravans, also known as motorhomes or camper vans, may park for the night whilst visiting or touring in an area, and broadly there are two general versions for this.

 

1. A simple overnight parking area with no other facilities other than larger parking bays to accommodate motorhomes, either in an existing car park, town or village, or attraction, or anywhere the encouragement of tourists and visitors is seen as desirable.

 

2. As above but withe the addition of a service point with a fresh water tap to enable the emptying of water water tanks. There can be a charge for using this to help recoup the cost of installation.

 

 

 

Or something along those lines?

 

[sambukashot]

Thats excellent Tracker!

I have updated the Q&A with your suggestion, if you (or anyone else) spots a better way to word stuff on the website please post them on this thread.

Here is the link fo the Q&A: http://www.camperstops.org/index.php/i-need-information-on-camper-stops/q-a

Thanks again

Keith

[Tracker]

Thanks, I was trying to avoid the bits that might put people off initially - like the mention of toilet emptying and the unpleasant picture it might create in the minds of the unaware?

 

Let's maybe try to get those who are able to facilitate interested first and then add that to the mix when we have their attention?

[sambukashot]

Sounds like the right way to move forward!

[Tracker]

I really must congratulate you and express my appreciation for what you have achieved with your website to date on everyone's behalf starting from nothing. I think it's brilliant.

 

A terrific effort and well deserving of the support of the clubs, one make owner groups, MAGAZINES that purport to support motor caravanning (if anyone is listening!), and every member on here who is interested in the long term expansion and survival of the motorhome industry in the UK - regardless of whether they love or hate non site or UK camping.

 

Let's face it - if we can get more vans onto Camper Stops there will be more space on club sites for those who prefer - so it is in your interest too!

 

Perhaps when the site is fully ready and you are happy with all the aspects it covers, it maybe time to seek publicity by emailing all the clubs, groups, converters, any MP's or alleged celebrities who are known to use a motorhome - and anyone else that comes to mind - with an introduction to the cause and a link to the website?

[sambukashot]

Hi Tracker,

I am in the final stages of the website so in the next few days i will email clubs/magazines/forums/ect to get some more interest going, i already have space on the website to display interested parties and their logos, i wonder who will be the first? maybe MMM who knows.

I have designed a few new road signs to display the Camper Stop, will do some more later, they can be viewed in the downloads section here; http://www.camperstops.org/index.php/i-need-information-on-camper-stops/download-documents/camper-stop-signs

Keith

[robertandjean]

The one aire know has been evaluated in terms of cost benefits is at St Valery en Caux, but it was a few years ago. For details maybe contact the marie or search archives of local newspaper. Hope this helps, but remember St Valery is an aire of the 'pass the salt' genre.

On a wider point the type of Aires most likely to be set up in U.K. are the car park style, yet these are the ones most vanners, well certainly on here, will not use so whilst we wish you well how much use will these new Aires get?

[Andy_C]

sambukashot - 2013-06-03 12:58 PM

I have designed a few new road signs to display the Camper Stop, will do some more later, they can be viewed in the downloads section here; http://www.camperstops.org/index.php/i-need-information-on-camper-stops/download-documents/camper-stop-signs

Keith

Just a couple of comments:It would be nice to see thumbnails of the signs before downloading them.The conventional spelling is 'metres', at least on this side of the Atlantic... I also noticed 'center' elsewhere on the website.It may be just me but I find the grey text used throughout the site quite hard to read, I'd prefer it black, or at least a bit darker.Andy

[747]

robertandjean - 2013-06-03 2:37 PM

 

The one aire know has been evaluated in terms of cost benefits is at St Valery en Caux, but it was a few years ago. For details maybe contact the marie or search archives of local newspaper. Hope this helps, but remember St Valery is an aire of the 'pass the salt' genre.

On a wider point the type of Aires most likely to be set up in U.K. are the car park style, yet these are the ones most vanners, well certainly on here, will not use so whilst we wish you well how much use will these new Aires get?

 

I suggest that if you are in the vicinity of Hawick, you spend a (fre) night there in the Car Park with the dedicated motorhome area. It is central but not noisy and there are plenty of shops, museums, Parks etc on you doorstep. Please don't criticise before you try something.

 

Oh yes, when you get a visit from the Tourist Information people (who pushed for this facility, not the Council), be sure to tell them how much you appreciate their effort and forward thinking. :-D

[sambukashot]

Andy: It would be nice to see thumbnails of the signs before downloading them.
The conventional spelling is 'metres', at least on this side of the Atlantic... I also noticed 'center' elsewhere on the website.
It may be just me but I find the grey text used throughout the site quite hard to read, I'd prefer it black, or at least a bit darker.

Thanks, i will get those points sorted out

Keith

[Pollik]

You have been working hard! :-)

 

 

 

Is there any merit in offering a downloadable/portable information pack, perhaps a PDF, which a council researcher could take to his team leader - something concise, covering the basics and especially the advantages to the council?

 

Once you start thinking about things like this, the possibilities, the variations and ideas can seem endless. This could end up being a very big project. ;-)

[sambukashot]

Pollik - 2013-06-03 9:02 PMYou have been working hard! :-) Is there any merit in offering a downloadable/portable information pack, perhaps a PDF, which a council researcher could take to his team leader - something concise, covering the basics and especially the advantages to the council?Once you start thinking about things like this, the possibilities, the variations and ideas can seem endless. This could end up being a very big project. ;-)

When Gwen gets back from her tour of Spain (next month) she is going to help me out with all sorts of documents that will be available to download, these will be a whole collection of forms and help documents to help individuals out who need to propose the idea of a camper stop to the relevent people in goverment office like council/trust/ect

Keith

[sambukashot]

Website Update

Ok took advice from the recent posts and i have made the following updates today:

1. Changed the font and made it darker so it is easy on the eye

2. Changed the downloads section completely so you can now see thumbnails of the signs

3. You can now add a comment on any of the downloads available

Visit the new downloads section here: http://www.camperstops.org/index.php/i-need-information-on-camper-stops/downloads

And this link to see the new comments in action: http://www.camperstops.org/index.php/i-need-information-on-camper-stops/downloads/viewdownload/5-road-direction-signs/4-camper-stop-direction-sign

Thats it for today, my eyes are tired.

Have a few adjustments to make tomorrow on fresh eyes, nearly done!

Thanks again

Keith

[sambukashot]

Just had the first website to back Camper Stops!

i have added them to the website, click here: www.camperstops.org (view bottom of the page)

Happy days!

[david lloyd]

maggyd - 2013-05-25 6:56 PM

 

Tracker - 2013-05-24 6:48 PM

 

David Lloyd was successful in getting an Aire at Guisborough some years back and he too is a source of useful info.

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/First-Municipal-Aire/4457/

 

David still appears on here from time to time but is much less active than before.

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/view-profile.asp?uid=200

 

 

Graham Hadfield also used to be a regular on here but has been seen or heard from for a while now.

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/view-profile.asp?action=view&uid=1477

 

 

 

 

That so called Aire at Guisborough Richard was two bays in a bus station :-S it was ridiculous no wonder no-body used it, it wasn't signed either ! I looked for it as we were driving past after shopping .

 

Thank you to Tracker and his continued support for anyone trying to establish dedicated Motorhome parking in this country. Sadly, maggyd's post amply illustrates one of the two most difficult obstacles to overcome.

 

A great deal of time and effort went into establishing dedicated Motorhome parking in Guisborough which had not existed previously. Contrary to popular belief, obtaining the support of local politicians was not the biggest issue and this proposal was fully supported by the leader of the council and his deputy who was also the Cabinet member for culture, media and tourism. Once availed of the reasons for and benefits of such a scheme they pursued it wholeheartedly. However, there were also the unelected officials (considerably more budget conscious) and the general public whose money and community the scheme would impact upon to consider.

 

With patience, time and intelligent discussion, each of the practical obstacles were overcome and the Motorhome parking established, not in a bus station but on the open air coach park used by tour buses while they wait for their day trip passengers. The site was chosen with good reason and again illustrates the sort of issues we had to overcome. All the available parking areas in the area had 2 ton weight limits applied under the legal parking orders - excluding all but the smallest of campers. Although some people do not particularly like staying overnight on car parks (including me) the fact is that a good 50% of continental aires and located in such places and we still use them for the purpose they were designed for. Not long term camping as some people do but making an overnight stop en route to somewhere else. If the aire is in a place of interest then so much the better.

 

On this point maggyd's fails to point out as he viewed the aire on the way back from a shopping trip that it is placed within walking distance of 3 supermarkets, an open air market on Tuesday and Saturday, the medieval priory ruins, Norman church, a library with Internet, swimming pool, choice of English, Italian, Chinese, Indian restaurants, pubs, cares and, for the energetic, the Branch Walkway leading to Guisborough forest and the Cleveland hills. Not bad for a day out.

 

What led to the closure of the scheme was motorhomer apathy. In the first year only 3 or 4 Motorhomes used tha facility leading to the second unassailable obstacle - political expediency as the opposition party leapt on the lack of use ( and implied waste of resources) to force the closure. The signs that maggyd could not see as he drove by were taken down. Had it been used it was a first stage to extending the scheme to other towns in Redcar and Cleveland such as Redcar, Saltburn and Marske.

 

There is much talk of the economical benefits and business reasons for establishing such places but such a model would only work in a place like Blackpool Pleasure Beach with large turnovers of Motorhome visitors. The majority of rural continental aires arevestablished not for business reasons but altruistic reasons and that was my sole motivation for spending so much effort in trying to establish a permanent, safe, legal dedicated motorhome parking area in Guisborough.

 

David

[sambukashot]

Thank you David for the detailed explanation, good read!

How long ago was the motorhome parking set up?

[crinklystarfish]

crinklystarfish - 2013-05-30 10:51 AM

 

To be honest I'm not that sure how effective any kind of 'petition' is going to be. Do not underestimate the apathy of UK motorhomers and be aware that most use their 'vans as caravans and are perfectly content to use formal sites. Low numbers of respondents might be counter-productive...

 

David's actual experience of apathy resonates.

 

Though many bemoan a lack of stopovers, when push comes to shove, where are they?

 

Most UK based motorhomers seem to manage with the current infrastructure and truth be told there are thousands of 'sites' in many guises already out there, as well as thousands of informal stopover opportunities.

 

As before, I reckon the way to drive this would be to get the actual agency charged with enhancing tourism in and to Britain to do their job: http://www.visitbritain.org/aboutus/overview.aspx

 

This is briefly what they have to do: "VisitBritain is the national tourism agency, responsible for marketing Britain worldwide & developing Britain’s visitor economy. A non-departmental public body, funded by the Department for Culture, Media & Sport, we work with partners in the UK & overseas to ensure that Britain is marketed in an inspirational & relevant way around the world".

 

Again, I applaud Sambuka's efforts and I know it's early days. I feel strongly though that without a culture shift driven by vigorous encouragement for eurozone motorhomers to come over here by the thousand that Mr and Mrs UK motorhomer will still just potter from club site to club site, CL to CS, and whine on about how crap everything is here so they are 'forced' to go to France to enjoy themselves.

 

Sambuka's excellent resource idea needs some (government) oomph behind it. It would be a shame for it to get bogged on a damp-grass pitch of apathy.

[snowie]

crinklystarfish - 2013-06-04 9:05 AM

 

David's actual experience of apathy resonates.

 

Sambuka's excellent resource idea needs some (government) oomph behind it. It would be a shame for it to get bogged on a damp-grass pitch of apathy.

 

Well some interest has been raised, a focus provided, what it now needs is some lobbying. There's no money to bung an MP ( I don't suppose ), so why don't we email the link to "camperstop" to our local MPs, and maybe our local tourist departments, and ask them to have a look? Maybe a draft letter to accompany a simple request to give it a look? Even if some MPs get lots and others none, it would be a start. Aim to send emails over the coming weekend?

 

alan b

[sambukashot]

Great comments as always!

Please wait a little before sending to anyone... I should have everything polished on the website in the next 2 days, yes i have said that the other day but it wont be long now -:)

Keith 

[sambukashot]

crinklystarfish: As before, I reckon the way to drive this would be to get the actual agency charged with enhancing tourism in and to Britain to do their job: http://www.visitbritain.org/aboutus/overview.aspx

This has been mentioned before, but there is little point writing to them until we have a well produced and informative website to point them to with all the relevent stats, information and facts, thats what i am doing. No point putting the cart before the horse.

Keith

[david lloyd]

sambukashot - 2013-06-04 8:36 AM

Thank you David for the detailed explanation, good read!

How long ago was the motorhome parking set up?

From the initial contact with the LA to setting up took nearly three years of fairly regular meetings. The LA set up a working group and Graham Hadfield was also invited as a member. I posted the good news that the facility was operational on 1 November 2008. There is another thread with more information on this forum if you use the search facility and search for 'Guisborough parking' filtered by author 'david lloyd' and 'all posts' should bring it up for you.The trial was for one year but, as I mentioned, in the end it was lack of use that led to the final decision to close it - even though it had cost money to set up (signage, changing the legal parking orders, recalibrating ticket machines and advertising the public consultation) but would not cost anything more to keep it open! One further point in respect of the location was that the coach park was constructed to take the weight of heavier vehicles whereas the car parks were not - hence the weight restrictions.My attempts may have fallen at the final hurdle but, nevertheless, I do wish you luck with the project and can only encourage other motorhomers to also take up the challenge, there are authorities out there prepared to listen and even act. We regularly use the Motorhome parking at Canterbury P&R enroute to the tunnel even though it is only a car park with less going for it than Guisborough coach park!Regards, David

[crinklystarfish]

The cart / horse thing strikes at the heart of this.

 

Not sure this one will ever succeed by expressed demand, again witness the apathy. The demand will need to be generated. The resource itself is a good idea as I've consistently posted from the off. No disrespect intended but the whole concept of 'aires' in the UK is arguably a solution to a problem that doesn't actually exist.

 

The resource itself would be a useful one with which to approach VB if it generates huge support and interest, I hope it does.

 

The resource itself won't generate demand. That's the horse / cart problem, a problem that VB have a statutory responsibility to address. Most other approaches are whimsical tinkering. It needs driving from the top down.

 

I absolutely genuinely don't wish to appear negative and again applaud the idea of the information resource.

[Pollik]

I think "apathy" is only one part of the problem. No aire or motorhome parking area is going to get visitors unless they are aware that it exists.

 

That can happen by listing it directories like Vicarious, it can happen by having prominent road signs, as they often do in France and by word of mouth. Perhaps if national organisations purporting to support motorhomes were to include them in their directories, that would help.

 

Then, too, the price point and facilities need to be met. It doesn't need to be near supermarkets, which mainly have their own car parks, but it does help if it is near shops, tourist attractions...places that people visit for pleasure, as well as need.

 

The motorhome culture in the UK is still growing and evolving. Many either still want camp sites, with all the bells and whistles. Still others believe that wilding is illegal. In addition, current wilders may have spent years building lists of places they can stop overnight or take on water or empty waste, mostly without cost. They need to be given a reason to choose an aire rather than their well honed expertise on surviving without them.

 

It will take time to change a culture. It will take people to change a culture. This thread has attracted more constructive comments than I have seen in many a long year and with Keith putting in so much hard work, I am more optimistic than I have been in previous times.

 

Ultimately, it can only change if enough people put in enough time and effort. And I think that could be helped a lot by having a dedicated and prominent discussion area, either here (as I suggested before) or on Keith's growing site. It would enable threaded discussions, rather than having all topics on a single gigantic thread. It would enable delegation of tasks, so that it doesn't all fall on Keith. It would make the initiative look more organised and professional. It would probably make it easier to find things in a user friendly environment..

 

It can be done.

 

And I am still thinking out loud. ;-)