Aires for the UK

[sambukashot]

Pollik: Ultimately, it can only change if enough people put in enough time and effort. And I think that could be helped a lot by having a dedicated and prominent discussion area, either here (as I suggested before) or on Keith's growing site. It would enable threaded discussions, rather than having all topics on a single gigantic thread. It would enable delegation of tasks, so that it doesn't all fall on Keith. It would make the initiative look more organised and professional. It would probably make it easier to find things in a user friendly environment..

This is something i am working on and it will appear on the website soon.

I have already added the facility for uses to leave brief comments on most things on the website which has already started to attract a healthy interest, so far so good.

Thank you again for another great post!

Keith

[747]

david lloyd - 2013-06-04 10:03 AM

sambukashot - 2013-06-04 8:36 AM

Thank you David for the detailed explanation, good read!

How long ago was the motorhome parking set up?

From the initial contact with the LA to setting up took nearly three years of fairly regular meetings. The LA set up a working group and Graham Hadfield was also invited as a member. I posted the good news that the facility was operational on 1 November 2008. There is another thread with more information on this forum if you use the search facility and search for 'Guisborough parking' filtered by author 'david lloyd' and 'all posts' should bring it up for you.The trial was for one year but, as I mentioned, in the end it was lack of use that led to the final decision to close it - even though it had cost money to set up (signage, changing the legal parking orders, recalibrating ticket machines and advertising the public consultation) but would not cost anything more to keep it open! One further point in respect of the location was that the coach park was constructed to take the weight of heavier vehicles whereas the car parks were not - hence the weight restrictions.My attempts may have fallen at the final hurdle but, nevertheless, I do wish you luck with the project and can only encourage other motorhomers to also take up the challenge, there are authorities out there prepared to listen and even act. We regularly use the Motorhome parking at Canterbury P&R enroute to the tunnel even though it is only a car park with less going for it than Guisborough coach park!Regards, David

Hi David,Was the site promoted on other motorhome forums?I think this is a necessity as even well publicised ones are never full to overflowing and this will apply to the camperstop website. Any interest by any official body will need to be plastered over every forum (and there are a lot these days).

[Tracker]

One of the problems is the lack of a network and whilst every network has to start with one, unless the one is in a location that lots of people pass or visit and is well publicised, it won't get the use to justify it's existence.

 

We would have used the Guisborough stopover and we would have gone specifically to the town to do so if for no other reason than to show support, but because of the lack of a UK network we tend to holiday abroad where there is a network of Aires or at least a different attitude to off site overnighting and so we just didn't get to go that far North in the UK.

 

That's the problem - I wish I knew what the answer is!

[snowie]

Tracker - 2013-06-04 12:52 PM

 

One of the problems is the lack of a network and whilst every network has to start with one,

 

Well it may not be an Aire, or a Camperstop, but maybe this thread could be the beginning of a network. A network of people who are going to spread that word. A "virtual" network

 

Worth a try?

What's to lose; apart from irritating some people who've managed to not address this issue for several years,

Just my ten "P" worth

alan b

[robertandjean]

747 - 2013-06-03 2:51 PM

 

robertandjean - 2013-06-03 2:37 PM

 

The one aire know has been evaluated in terms of cost benefits is at St Valery en Caux, but it was a few years ago. For details maybe contact the marie or search archives of local newspaper. Hope this helps, but remember St Valery is an aire of the 'pass the salt' genre.

On a wider point the type of Aires most likely to be set up in U.K. are the car park style, yet these are the ones most vanners, well certainly on here, will not use so whilst we wish you well how much use will these new Aires get?

 

I suggest that if you are in the vicinity of Hawick, you spend a (fre) night there in the Car Park with the dedicated motorhome area. It is central but not noisy and there are plenty of shops, museums, Parks etc on you doorstep. Please don't criticise before you try something.

 

Oh yes, when you get a visit from the Tourist Information people (who pushed for this facility, not the Council), be sure to tell them how much you appreciate their effort and forward thinking. :-D

 

Hang on a minute 747 we are more than happy to stay on crowded car park style Aires, still at Le Havre which fits this description well!! But point we were making was that a lot of vannners on here say how awful and they would not use them. Our point is if this is typical then how much use will these Aires get? To set up the style of Aires most would like, individual hedged pitches and so on would cost too much we fear. (Recent aire established on these lines in France cost over 80000 euros). Thanks for heads up re Hawick, will use if decide to visit Scotland again.

[snowie]

robertandjean - 2013-06-04 3:01 PM

 

 

Hang on a minute 747 we are more than happy to stay on crowded car park style Aires, still at Le Havre which fits this description well!! But point we were making was that a lot of vannners on here say how awful and they would not use them.

 

Hi Robertandjean;

I was wondering whether to give Le Havre a try in the new year, having spent a great week there as a student back in the late 60's, and an aire would suit. At least it would have done. I read somewhere that it had 19 spaces, and currently had 30 vans on it? I think it was Le Havre.

 

That's the aspect that I can manage without, I'm gregarious, but I have my limits. Maybe Le Havre in summer will always be like that, maybe most popular aires are currently pretty crowded.

 

I'm not looking for hedged plots, but I'd move on if there was that sort of overcrowding, don't need the company that bad.

You may be right that these things would be unacceptable to British motorhomers.

I wonder how "Lassez Faire" the UK could be?

 

regards

alan b

[david lloyd]

Hi 747

 

Yes, it was a long running thread on several forums and Graham Hadfield placed the full details on his motorhome parking wensite. MMM also published a two page article with pictures so it did receive fairly good coverage at the time.

 

David

[sambukashot]

No aire or motorhome parking area is going to get visitors unless they are aware that it exists.

I have covered this point n the FAQ's on the website: http://www.camperstops.org/index.php/i-need-information-on-camper-stops/q-a

it's under: Providing a Camper Stop in your area > How Would We Promote a Newly Built Camper Stop?

[Andy_C]

robertandjean - 2013-06-04 3:01 PM

Our point is if this is typical then how much use will these Aires get? To set up the style of Aires most would like, individual hedged pitches and so on would cost too much we fear. (Recent aire established on these lines in France cost over 80000 euros). Thanks for heads up re Hawick, will use if decide to visit Scotland again.

There's no doubt in my mind that some camperstops would be well used, for example the Little Roodee Car Park in Chester is pretty well used for overnight stays, doubtless because of its location and because it is fairly well known. Last time we stayed there were 4 or 5 other motorhomes staying overnight, 2 or 3 of which were foreign registered.

 

There is certainly the demand, but the success depends to a great extent on adequate publicity, some of which will be free. I happen to know that the publishers of Camperstop (see: http://camperstop.facilemedia.nl/en/) have someone in the UK gathering information for next years guide at the moment.

 

Adequate signage is also very important, standardised direction signs are important, as well as on-site signs, people using these places need to feel reassured that they are actually allowed to stay.

 

Of course camperstops are not for everyone, it's all about choices, if we want to stay in an area for a few days and don't mind being out in the sticks, we'll most likely use a campsite or CS/CL. If we want to visit a town or village for a drink or meal in the evening before moving on the next day, we would be looking for a simple parking spot nearby for the night. This is why we often go to Powys, to make use of their 1 night in 7 policy, visiting Hay on Wye, Brecon, Crickhowell and Machynlleth.

 

Andy

[sambukashot]

I will send out information to every publication/website/forums here in the UK and Europe when a new Camper Stop opens.

I was just asked this afternoon by a Spainish woman, if their was places like where we are parked now (an aire in Spain) in the UK as she loves  our country and wants to visit in her motorhome, well her face started to sink when i mentioned the various options she had!

[Pollik]

I am sure I will be preaching to the converted, but it is too easy to criticise individual aires or camperstop.

 

Last year, I spent 6 months wandering round France. With a very few exceptions, everywhere was easy to get on to and about two thirds were lovely. Aires on the north east coast can be busy and/or expensive, ditto in the south on the Med coast. And even then, aires like Calais and La Rochelle had plenty of room. The only inland town which was crowded was Le Mans...but that was the day before the 24 hour race (I timed my visit very badly). I would also add that, apart from Calais and an aire on the Med, every single aire that I used was free to park and almost every aire was free to fill up with water, with one even providing free EHU, meaning that I had more money to spend in the local boulangerie or boucherie, and I did, as a thank you to the community.

 

Of course it is not going to suit everybody. There will always be those who like the bells and whistles that you pay for on a campsite, and the better security. I imagine that this initiative is not about these people and never will be.

 

Part of my view is that I would rather not have to spend money paying for things I neither want nor need and I would rather my money went to local businesses than to the council.

[747]

robertandjean - 2013-06-04 3:01 PM

 

747 - 2013-06-03 2:51 PM

 

robertandjean - 2013-06-03 2:37 PM

 

The one aire know has been evaluated in terms of cost benefits is at St Valery en Caux, but it was a few years ago. For details maybe contact the marie or search archives of local newspaper. Hope this helps, but remember St Valery is an aire of the 'pass the salt' genre.

On a wider point the type of Aires most likely to be set up in U.K. are the car park style, yet these are the ones most vanners, well certainly on here, will not use so whilst we wish you well how much use will these new Aires get?

 

I suggest that if you are in the vicinity of Hawick, you spend a (fre) night there in the Car Park with the dedicated motorhome area. It is central but not noisy and there are plenty of shops, museums, Parks etc on you doorstep. Please don't criticise before you try something.

 

Oh yes, when you get a visit from the Tourist Information people (who pushed for this facility, not the Council), be sure to tell them how much you appreciate their effort and forward thinking. :-D

 

Hang on a minute 747 we are more than happy to stay on crowded car park style Aires, still at Le Havre which fits this description well!! But point we were making was that a lot of vannners on here say how awful and they would not use them. Our point is if this is typical then how much use will these Aires get? To set up the style of Aires most would like, individual hedged pitches and so on would cost too much we fear. (Recent aire established on these lines in France cost over 80000 euros). Thanks for heads up re Hawick, will use if decide to visit Scotland again.

 

Yes I do agree that the impression of using a car park is not for everyone but be honest, would you want to mix with that sort of person (the glamper). :D It is the ideal venue if you want to avoid Henry and the Judge. :->

 

Perhaps we should stop using the phrase 'car park' and use something else .... like 'designated parking area'. It sounds more neutral.

 

Some people think that we wildies ONLY stay on car parks. It is most unusual for the wife and I to do so but we have. Only in very quiet areas with a beach within 10 yards. And no, I am not saying where they are. :D

[747]

sambukashot - 2013-06-04 4:27 PM

I will send out information to every publication/website/forums here in the UK and Europe when a new Camper Stop opens.

I was just asked this afternoon by a Spainish woman, if their was places like where we are parked now (an aire in Spain) in the UK as she loves  our country and wants to visit in her motorhome, well her face started to sink when i mentioned the various options she had!

Tell the Spanish lady to join www.wildcamping.co.uk as a Free member. It will cost her nothing and she will be given all the help she needs for good places to stay.

[Pollik]

747 - 2013-06-04 9:21 PM

 

Tell the Spanish lady to join www.wildcamping.co.uk as a Free member. It will cost her nothing and she will be given all the help she needs for good places to stay.

 

If she wants the POI file for her sat nav, unless it is has changed since I was there, she would have to pay £15.00 to join and become a paid up member.

 

And of course, if she was looking for aire equivalents, wild camping spots may not meet her needs in terms of facilities, security or officialness. I think that this is rather the point the point of this camperstop initiative.

[sambukashot]

I did inform her of all the options, point was she was shocked to find that the UK did not have places like in France or Spain?

I have a lot of work to do....

Now is the time to make changes!

Keith

[rupert123]

Pollik - 2013-06-04 7:33 PM

 

Part of my view is that I would rather not have to spend money paying for things I neither want nor need and I would rather my money went to local businesses than to the council.

I would point out that campsites are usually a local business and not owned by the council, even municiples are gradually being privatised. Someone who stay,s on the local campsite spends more with a local business than you ever will buying the odd loaf of bread.

[sambukashot]

Website Update

Wow it has been a really busy day today making changes to the website and lots of new vistors already...

Had a few interesting emails which were positive, i was not expecting so much interest in the website so soon, this has slowed down the time i had to improve stuff on the site but i have still managed to make things look better.

Again thanks for all your interest, when you have a few minutes have a fresh look around: www.camperstops.org

And as allways,  all comments/suggestions welcome

Cheers

Keith

[747]

Pollik - 2013-06-04 9:31 PM

 

747 - 2013-06-04 9:21 PM

 

Tell the Spanish lady to join www.wildcamping.co.uk as a Free member. It will cost her nothing and she will be given all the help she needs for good places to stay.

 

If she wants the POI file for her sat nav, unless it is has changed since I was there, she would have to pay £15.00 to join and become a paid up member.

 

And of course, if she was looking for aire equivalents, wild camping spots may not meet her needs in terms of facilities, security or officialness. I think that this is rather the point the point of this camperstop initiative.

 

We frequently put ourselves out to help Foreigners with good places to stop over. Plus the offer of nights on our property, fresh water, hookup and even showers. There is no need to become a full member, all we need is an idea of the areas they would like to visit.

 

You should know that from the time you were a member.

[sambukashot]

With all the interest in providing Camper Stops for the UK i was suprised that no one (apart from me) has added any new ideas for locations to the map?

With everyones knowledge of your local area surly some could post some ideas on the website to help it grow faster? it is very easy to add locations on the map, why not give it a go? Try it here: http://www.camperstops.org/index.php/i-can-help-with-ideas-for-a-camper-stop/location-ideas

if you are not sure just send me a few details and i will add them for you

Thanks again

Keith

[Pollik]

For me, the reason is I am not clear what is intended to be done with the suggestions.

 

Perhaps I am reading it wrongly, but I thought that Camper Stops was not intended to be a lobbying group. That is to say, that the intention is for it to be a reactive group (responding to approaches from LAs) rather than proactive (approaching LAs directly). And I would judge that the chances of any given LA looking at the site and seeing and acting on a suggestion is rather remote?

 

Have I got this wrong?

[sambukashot]

Hi Pollik,

I think it might be heading towards a lobby/group website after recent discussions from emails sent to me!

[crinklystarfish]

sambukashot - 2013-06-07 8:31 AM

 

With all the interest in providing Camper Stops for the UK i was suprised that no one (apart from me) has added any new ideas for locations to the map...

 

Yup,

 

That'll be that apathy thing. As before, demand will need to be created, it doesn't exist. This initiative, if it is to succeed, needs driving from the top down and heavily resourced.

 

Again, people tend to moan and carp and then do absolutely nothing productive. 'Somebody should do something' is the prevailing attitude, of course, the 'somebody' in question is never themselves.

 

The best thing to do would be to polish the website to its highest lustre and pitch it to VB focussing on the (true) claim that a properly established and publicised camper stop network would be of huge benefit to British tourism at both the national and local level.

 

They have a duty to look at it.

[sambukashot]

crinklystarfish - Yup,That'll be that apathy thing. As before, demand will need to be created, it doesn't exist. This initiative, if it is to succeed, needs driving from the top down and heavily resourced.Again, people tend to moan and carp and then do absolutely nothing productive. 'Somebody should do something' is the prevailing attitude, of course, the 'somebody' in question is never themselves.The best thing to do would be to polish the website to its highest lustre and pitch it to VB focussing on the (true) claim that a properly established and publicised camper stop network would be of huge benefit to British tourism at both the national and local level.They have a duty to look at it.

Yes this is the message i am feeling as well...

Good job i am back to the drawing board!

Keith

[crinklystarfish]

Don't be despondent though, your idea was, and is, a cracker and the bones of the site are an extremely sound foundation for moving the idea of a network forward.

 

Thinking a bit wider, it could even be pitched to VB as a proposal for a PhD research project. They would most probably fund some capable post-masters student to do a proper cost / benefit study.

[sambukashot]

I am far from despondent! just the opposite...