Motor Caravanners Club

[enrico]

As a newish person to the elite of motorhomers,why do people join the CC or C&CC when there is the above mentioned club? Is it because there`s more choice of sites? Surely if this is the case then all that are members of CC and C&CC who own m/hs gave up their memberships and joined the Motor Caravanners Club then this would grow which should lead to more sites and better facilities if this is what`s wanted. We could have our own independent club and sites which are for the soul purpose of us m/homers and no balshy Chairman of the CC coming out with ridiculous comments which may affect us. Is all this logical or am I missing something? ps.I am not on the payroll of the Motor Caravanners Club if anyone was thinking that (!) (!) (!) I think it could be a good idea.I`m sure someone will prove me wrong. (lol) (lol) (lol)

[chas]

Hi enrico, I think that is a great idea, and I am a member of the CCC. if I thought they could provide aire type sites without all the trimmings that the main clubs offer in good locations at low cost I would certainly join. Perhaps there are members out there who could comment on the idea. chas

[michele]

Enrico, I gave up the CC long ago ....Think it's a good idea to havea motorhomers club ...but then am not against just having an everyones same tastes club which ever way you look at it it's all camping be happy the more the merrier

[Guest starspirit]

I have been a member of the MCC (motorhomes not cricket) for many years because they are the only dedicated motor caravan club in the UK. They do not have many sites just a few c/ls which are now charging similar prices to the other clubs similar sites. However unless we that value our freedom support them and give them the funds they will never be strong enough to have a loud enough voice to make a difference. They do have a 'safe knights' scheme where members phone ahead and can stay on other members property free of charge overnight. No facilities of course but seems like a good idea although I have never tried it. They also have a very strong rally program in most regions comparable with CCC where you don't book just turn up as the whim takes. They also have quite a good website.

[david lloyd]

It is such a good idea to have a club for motorcaravanners providing motorhome specific camping etc that I have e-mailed the MCC to say that there is some dissatisfaction with the two major clubs and to ask what they thought of motorhome users leaving the CC and C&CC to join them - in the hope that they would then be a stronger, more sensitive club for motorcaravanners. I have had a positive sounding acknowledgement with the promise that a more detailed response will follow soon. As someone who has been in discussions with my own local authority for some 18 months to try and get them to establish a municipal aire I am certainly keen on the idea of a club for motorcaravanners to replace the 'benefits' I currently get from the Caravan Club. I recognise the weight they would carry with local authorities on such issues if they had the membership numbers to back them up. As soon as I get any more details I'll let you know. Regards, david

[Don Madge]

[QUOTE]David Lloyd - 2006-08-03 5:54 PM It is such a good idea to have a club for motorcaravanners providing motorhome specific camping etc that I have e-mailed the MCC to say that there is some dissatisfaction with the two major clubs and to ask what they thought of motorhome users leaving the CC and C&CC to join them - in the hope that they would then be a stronger, more sensitive club for motorcaravanners. I have had a positive sounding acknowledgement with the promise that a more detailed response will follow soon. As someone who has been in discussions with my own local authority for some 18 months to try and get them to establish a municipal aire I am certainly keen on the idea of a club for motorcaravanners to replace the 'benefits' I currently get from the Caravan Club. I recognise the weight they would carry with local authorities on such issues if they had the membership numbers to back them up. As soon as I get any more details I'll let you know. Regards, David[/QUOTE] David, I think you are doing a brilliant job and I wish you well. The MCC has always been an inward looking club. One of the founder members John Hunt left because they would not plan for expansion. He had visions of the club rivalling the CC & the CCC but it never happened. I was a member for a few years in the early eighties and I met some smashing people in the Yorkshire group but at the council of management level they were a lot of old women. Any old timers will back me up. Unless they have changed don't bank on getting much help from them. In the past it was a NATO club, No Action Talk Only. I would be delighted to be proved wrong, I would be the first in the queue if I thought the MCC had changed. Don PS Now ducking as the bullets will no doubt be coming in my direction.

[michele]

Wouldn't be nice Carry one of them little cards when you pass it over it's would say pour le camping car.......wonderful .I would join....

[david lloyd]

[QUOTE]Don Madge - 2006-08-03 6:24 PM David, I think you are doing a brilliant job and I wish you well. The MCC has always been an inward looking club. One of the founder members John Hunt left because they would not plan for expansion. He had visions of the club rivalling the CC & the CCC but it never happened. I was a member for a few years in the early eighties and I met some smashing people in the Yorkshire group but at the council of management level they were a lot of old women. Any old timers will back me up. Unless they have changed don't bank on getting much help from them. In the past it was a NATO club, No Action Talk Only. I would be delighted to be proved wrong, I would be the first in the queue if I thought the MCC had changed. Don PS Now ducking as the bullets will no doubt be coming in my direction.[/QUOTE] Thanks don, I have also said that I would be at the front of the queue to join - let's hope the MCC have had a change of mind set and realise the advanages of being a motorhome club that provides for the needs of motorhomers. It shoudn't be seen as a pipe dream or an impossible task - just look at the origins of the CC and C&CC - what it needs is vision, determination and the ability to interpret what the members need into action. Let's give them the chance and see what they come up with. Regards, david

[Pat P]

I vote for David and Don to go on the committee of the MCC! Any seconders? Pat ;-)

[enrico]

Well thats got us talking about it a LITTLE. David I`ve been the one shouting from the rooftops about your aire in Guisborough and pleased that you are going through to the MCC. Don Pleased that you were a member and I can understand your point about NATO.However if we all took that stance now we would not get things off the ground and we need to.We need people like you who are active,usually talk a lot of common sense and would like to get things done.I feel very much like that. The MCC does seem a little dated,in fact starspirit commented earlier about their website and I now know what he means but we need to push it on much further. We need a motorhomers club with a website thats up to date,plenty of sites that suit us all and very active and listens to its members.I understand a lot of people don`t wish to get involved personally for whatever reason but if all of us m/homers put our hands in our pockets and paid £24.50 each every year then the club could afford sites and things that us m/homers want. LETS STOP TALKING AND HAVE SOME ACTION. Everyone that reads this thread,HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT IT?????? B-) B-) B-)

[Frank]

I would be very keen to join a club for motohome users but the Motor caravanners club would not be it. It has been active for 46 years and is not even remotely challenging the CC and CCC. I read with interest that the cause of this probably lies with previous management so I ask myself if that is likely to have changed and I doubt that it has. Why? If there was a dynamic management driving forward change in that club it would already be demonstrable via its public faces, the web site and forum. Most people these days understand the importance of a good web presence, especially those involved in business, but lets be honest the MCC simply doesn’t have one. It is one of the most cluttered and amateur front pages that I have seen in a long time and the forum is like something that was around in the early 90’s. The web pages should be attractive, modern in design and format and really sell the club backed by a strong equally well designed forum that offers members the opportunity of discussing motorhomes using modern forum software. Why are we not using that forum as opposed to this one? I am aware that this sounds very negative but despite this I too would like to belong to a progressive club that specialises in motor caravans but peering around I just don’t see one.

[roger s]

I agree over the MCC website, it could be a lot better, some time ago there was an attempt I understand to update the forum, there was a fuss so it went back to the "old system" There are many sites, some club some others from publishers etc that arnt that brilliant they try an cram too much on each page or make navigation difficult - you dont have to look far for an example. As a club though they are much more welcoming than either thehe CC or C&CC on the rallying side and ceratinly the two groups I have experience off will not see newcomers on their own. In our tugging days we tried CC rallies but on some occasions spoke to nobody, that ruled them out, The C&CC arnt too bad in my experience

[michele]

Enrico, why don't you put a poll voting thing on it ....?

[david lloyd]

Just to keep everyone up to date I have received a long reply from Vic Lancaster at MCC i which he is very upbeat about what the club is doing to move forward on aires in this country. I have asked him if I can reproduce it on this thread and await a response (but he is going away this weekend so may not get the message until Mon/Tues). He has also welcomed my approach and would be happy to discuss the issue further next week on his return. I'm hoping that he has read the comments on this thread - which should give him and the committee an updated view of how ordinary motorhome users view the club at present - and that should give plenty of scope for a full and frank discussion of where any club needs to be going. Will let you know as soon as there is any news. Regards, david

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]enrico - 2006-08-03 1:59 PM As a newish person to the elite of motorhomers,why do people join the CC or C&CC when there is the above mentioned club? Is it because there`s more choice of sites? Surely if this is the case then all that are members of CC and C&CC who own m/hs gave up their memberships and joined the Motor Caravanners Club then this would grow which should lead to more sites and better facilities if this is what`s wanted. We could have our own independent club and sites which are for the soul purpose of us m/homers and no balshy Chairman of the CC coming out with ridiculous comments which may affect us. Is all this logical or am I missing something? ps.I am not on the payroll of the Motor Caravanners Club if anyone was thinking that (!) (!) (!) I think it could be a good idea.I`m sure someone will prove me wrong. (lol) (lol) (lol)[/QUOTE]

I like the idea, but I'm afraid I don't think it can be realised in quite the way Enrico envisages.

The two main clubs have now been established for many years, and own the majority of their large collections of sites.  These sites have been accumulated over the years, many having been acquired at times when planning restrictions and land prices were much more favourable than now.  They also have some quite "big hitters" as members and on their committees.  I doubt anyone could afford the membership fees of a club that set out to rival them starting from today!

However, the CCC does have a motorcaravanning section (or similar), so there is scope to work from within.  There is a gentle, year on year, decline in the numbers of tents, trailer tents, and trailer caravans being sold, even in UK, and a rather faster rise in the number of motorhomes sold.  Assuming this continues, unless both clubs change to accommodate motorhomers, they will, sooner or later, get into trouble with membership and thus income.

I therefore think our best bet, overall, will be to all join the existing clubs, but then to be vociferous in stating what we, as a group, need, that they don't, at present, cater for.  Since I happen to think what we need isn't, in reality, so very different from what they already provide, I'm inclined to think there should'nt be too much resistance - once they realise the economic threat from rejection.

I know many motorhomers are fierce about site facilities - in that they don't want any.

However, both clubs have some sites with no toilet/electrical facilities (although both are working hard to get facilities onto these), and both have their associated networks of licensed 5 unit sites, many of which have few, to no, facilities other than water and waste disposal.  The main problem with the latter being that they tend to favour grass: which is not so good in the wet.

If we don't like their high charges, the best way to get these down is from within, by arguing that, for example, if the CCC can provide a pitch without an electric hook up, there is no logical reason why the CC shouldn't.

All our arguments already rage within the clubs.  Many caravanners object strongly to paying for electricity they don't use.  Many don't want toilet blocks, and seek out the sites without.  Many hate the larger, more regimented sites, and seek out the small 5 vehicle sites.

However, I do think there is a divide among motorhomers as well, with those who fall into the above categories as regards no facilities sites, sometimes seeming to get a bit holier that thou with those who do want hook ups, toilets blocks and clean showers on site.  This, I think, is our biggest problem.

We are too divided among ourselves and, inevitably, divided we fall.  We need to focus on those aspects of motorhoming that we all hold dear, stop arguing about the trivia, and get real about the cost of providing sites.  With, of without facilities, they can never, all, be cheap.  Notwithstanding, I suspect that, fundamentally, we are lot closer on most things that some may wish to concede.

Lets unite, get into the two clubs, and then call for the small changes we really need to better accommodate our needs.  We'll never convince them by shouting at them from outside, or by shouting about them!  We can always co-ordinate via MMM and the forum.  Fifth column?

[Don Madge]

Brian, A very well put together letter. :-D I don't think anything will change the CC. I worked for them for four years (expenses only) in the late eighties early nineties. We ran Touchstone walking holidays here in the UK and walking holidays in the French Alps. Touchstone Holidays were killed off because they did not generate enough profit. The holidays were mostly fully booked and members were very happy with them but the CC stopped them. Maureen & I ran the walking holidays in France in our six week summer holiday. They were all well subscribed and we got some great feedback from the walkers. We are still friends with some of the walkers today. We would do two holidays of two weeks each at the same location and on the last two weeks we would survey a holiday for the following year. We got a free ferry crossing and red pennant insurance for the whole six weeks plus a setting up fee.. We finally called it a day when they tried to reduce the red pennant to only four weeks and we would have to pay for the extra two weeks. When I enquired why I was told they had to keep competitive with their competitors. I received no reply when I asked who their competitors were. I found out unofficially later that we did not make a profit and we had to go. The mere fact that the members thoroughly enjoyed the holidays was not taken into account. On one holiday Maureen had to fly back a few days early to get back to school .The CC flew her business class from Lyon to Manchester at a cost of £316. This was in 1992. When I asked why the business class they replied Club Policy. I'm still a member, I occasionally use a club site when visiting my aged parent and I save £60/£90 on the NSF Hull to Rotterdam/Zeebrugge crossing. Don

[chas]

As a member of the CCC I would just like to mention if not known already, motorcaravanners can use most club sites for up to 3hrs to rest, take on fresh water, and dispose of grey and black, have full use of toilets/showers and laundry facilities for the sum of £ 4.95. this of course does not help with those seeking overnight stops, but may help when the need arises. chas

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]chas - 2006-08-04 2:47 PM As a member of the CCC I would just like to mention if not known already, motorcaravanners can use most club sites for up to 3hrs to rest, take on fresh water, and dispose of grey and black, have full use of toilets/showers and laundry facilities for the sum of £ 4.95. this of course does not help with those seeking overnight stops, but may help when the need arises. chas[/QUOTE]

Chas

I know what you mean, but anyone can stay the night as well, it just costs a bit more!

[chas]

Hi Brian- I dont want to give the idea I am on the payrole of the CCC, but you say it costs a little more, thats true, but I guess the majority of motorhomers are over 55yrs and can find sites as low as £ 1.85pppn , in the low season with the club, theres no chance of me joining the CC with their hidden prejidice against motorcaravanners, but on reading the apparent sad case of the workings of the motorcaravanners club, I think the CCC is the better bet. Frankly I cant see the CCC wanting to go out on a limb to provide aire type pitches when they sponser CL/CS and sites where EHU is not compulsary, they do pride themselves as the friendly club and that does cover all units, with no segregation, and when done and said all they are a buisness to make a reasonable profit for the long term benifit of their members, as mention before, land is so scarce and expensive in this country to form low cost running type aires. chas

[chas]

Hi Brian- I dont want to give the idea I am on the payrole of the CCC, but you say it costs a little more, thats true, but I guess the majority of motorhomers are over 55yrs and can find sites as low as £ 1.85pppn , in the low season with the club, theres no chance of me joining the CC with their hidden prejidice against motorcaravanners, but on reading the apparent sad case of the workings of the motorcaravanners club, I think the CCC is the better bet. Frankly I cant see the CCC wanting to go out on a limb to provide aire type pitches when they sponser CL/CS and sites where EHU is not compulsary, they do pride themselves as the friendly club and that does cover all units, with no segregation, and when done and said all they are a buisness to make a reasonable profit for the long term benifit of their members, as mention before, land is so scarce and expensive in this country to form low cost running type aires. chas

[chas]

Sorry about the double entry .chas

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]chas - 2006-08-04 5:34 PM Hi Brian- I dont want to give the idea I am on the payrole of the CCC, but you say it costs a little more, thats true, but I guess the majority of motorhomers are over 55yrs and can find sites as low as £ 1.85pppn , in the low season with the club, theres no chance of me joining the CC with their hidden prejidice against motorcaravanners, but on reading the apparent sad case of the workings of the motorcaravanners club, I think the CCC is the better bet. Frankly I cant see the CCC wanting to go out on a limb to provide aire type pitches when they sponser CL/CS and sites where EHU is not compulsary, they do pride themselves as the friendly club and that does cover all units, with no segregation, and when done and said all they are a buisness to make a reasonable profit for the long term benifit of their members, as mention before, land is so scarce and expensive in this country to form low cost running type aires. chas[/QUOTE]

Chas

My point, exactly.  The CLs are, in effect, British aires, and, on the whole, much better located (though seldom convenient for shops) and prettier.  Most make a charge between £5 and £7, some a bit more and a few less.

Their main problem is that most are all grass jobs, so of limited use for 'vans.  However, if we just use them, the owners will surely realise we need a bit of stability underneath and many will find ways to meet the need.

Re the CCC sites, again, I agree.  Out of season and over 55 they are great value.  Only problem I have found is they are swamped at weekends but have empty pitches most weekdays.  The charging policy needs changing to ge the "pitch blocking" weekenders off site so that those who want to stay for a week can get 6 nights, instead of only 4!  However, if we join in our droves, we can get the niggles ironed out and no one need loose out as a result.

I've written to the Licensed Victuallers Assn, suggesting more of their members might like to consider overnight parking bays for motorhomes.  We'll see!  If it works, mine's two pints!!

[Basil]

Am I alone in believing that this them and us, motorhome/ caravan, syndrome seems to be mainly generated by motorhomers!! We have been camping, caravanning and motorhoming for more than 35years and we have like others seen many changes. Some I totally disagree with, e.g. paying for electric whether you need it of not for no valid reason that I can see, others I do agree with. Now these things I would have agreed or disagreed with whether I was motorhoming, caravaning or indeed camping. The only people I ever hear moaning about them and us are motorhomers!! We have been members of the CC the whole time and the C&CC for only a short period in the early years, the MCC just does not cater for our requirements so have never figured. If I don't agree with something, then I tell them and some things get done others don't, but there are in my opinion quite a few good reasons for belonging so we do. Personally I can say that I have only once in all that time met a stropy warden (and that on reflection was possibly partly my own fault) and guess what I was in a large twin axle caravan outfit at the time! Personally I believe that we are all suffering from the clubs not listening to us, because we are in the minority, and I don't mean caravaners against motorhomers, due to the change in the type of person who is now following our lifestyle and is now in the majority within the clubs i.e. not hardened campers but those who see life as one upmanship and status, who are prepared to carry out their 'hobby' whatever the cost. You actually see this at its worst with some of the ARVers, though not exclusively, who seem to believe that theirs are the ultimate vehicles that everyone aspires too and not that others may have chosen not to have one for their own reasons. It is the same syndrome that can be seen all over GB at this time whether it is cars, houses or area's you live, just a case of percieved one upmanship. Unfortunately those of us that have grown with, or come into the lifestyle from a family knowledge of what could be, are not those that make the caravan and camping businesses (they are no longer clubs) profitable. What the answer is I don't know, but whinging on all the time about motorhomers being the poor relations in the clubs is in my view unfounded. Just my viewpoint.

[David Dwight]

We have ben members of the CC since 1971. We dont always agree with what they do or say, but we still use them for CLs and very occasionaly Sites, we have this year joined CCC but not used them yet. When we celebrated the Queens Jubilee, the owner of a small site that we have been using for years held a get together for all his customers, since he had started the site (CL with CC until he got thrown out) We had a fantastic weekend, meeting people all together that we had all met on odd occasions over the years. From that weekend we formed our own Caravan Club (everal Motorhomers included). Would it not be possible for likeminded people from the Forum to get together at one of the Shows and make a start. Theres a lot to starting a club up ie Constitution, getting in touch with DEFRA who I think you have toregister with, insurance, ACETO. Just a few of the things. It does not have to start big but i am sure it will grow. We have likited our club to 30 unit membership at the moment and we are already talking to another small club to combine our activities and form a bigger organisation. Any thing is possible. David

[chas]

Hi David, If you think about it your new club will eventualy be like the motorcaravan section of the CCC which you say you have just joined this year. they have different meets and rallys all year and invite most units to join them, have their own news letter, and all under the umberella of the CCC. chas