Motor Caravanners Club

[David Dwight]

Chas, The difference being is that we the members get to say what we want, we elect the committee every year, so they listen or go!!!!!!!!!!!!. David

[chas]

Thats exactly what can be done each year in the CCC. chas

[Brian Kirby]

Basil

To some extent I think you're right and there is a bit of an anti-caravan whinge from motorhomers.  However, there is also a bit of anti-motorhome whinging among caravanners.  In reality I don't think we should worry too much about the knockers on either side: most seem to be the kind of folk who see others doing what they're doing, but differently, and just want to argue they've got it all wrong!  The world is big enough for both, so let them get on with it!

I think our problem is that we are the "Johnny Come Latelys" of the camping scene.  There are still tenters who write to the Camping and Caravanning Club mag complaining about the amount of space and resources devoted to caravans to the detriment of tents! 

Campsites have changed greatly over the years, to accommodate the changes in camping practice.  Tents, tilley lamps, gas lights, electric lights, LEDs, trailer tents, caravans with no electricity, caravans 12V electricity, caravans with 240V underfloor heating, gas heating, winter camping, portable TV sets, satellite TV, cassette toilets, Aquarolls: it just goes on and on and the Clubs have, gradually, altered their facilities to accommodate these varying demands as funds permit.

Then, along come motorhomes.  Not really so different fundamentally, we still need water and somewhere to empty the toilet.  Our "grey water" disposal is a bit different from a caravan.  (Caravan Club mag reviewed a motorhome this month: one criticism was the reviewer couldn't get his "slide under" waste tank beneath the motorhome's waste tank outlet!  Blinkered, you see!)  However, we are on the whole much heavier than almost anything that went before.  We wreck the carefully manicured grass the Clubs so love because our dirty great wheels put 750Kg each, or more, onto the ground, so we plough it up when it is wet!  We need hardstandings, more so than caravans.

Many caravanners and motorhomers don't want electricity: however many do.  Both clubs seem to have got themselves in a lather over the concept of "selling" electricity, which they claim they are not allowed to do.  More's the shame say I, when you look at the greedy attitude taken by some to the overgenerous supply of 15A hook ups!  Their main concern, as with many commercial sites, seems to be those who say they don't want a hook up, but then plug in after dark!  Their response is to have pitches with, and pitches without.  If all that is left is a pitch with, and you want one without, tough!  Bit rough and ready, but at least it's simple!

So, all we really need is what already exists, but with a few more hardstandings and slightly better designed and located "dump" stations. 

The debate about using campsite facilities in lieu of your on board facilities will never be resolved: but those who don't want to use the site facs don't have to.  They always argue they don't use them, so shouldn't therefore have to pay for them, but most use the toilets if they're passing "at the time".  On a full site, if everyone tried using the site facs there'd be queues, so there isn't really full provision.  By the same token, if everyone used only their own, on board, facs there'd be queues to empty the cassette instead!

The changes motorhomers need from the clubs are quite small and, if we join instead of carping, we can get them.  Not all at once, but they'll come, just as all the other changes have come. 

So, I say, don't fragment into dozens of nondescript little motorhome clubs, join the existing clubs and get them to adapt better to motorhome users' needs.

[Basil]

Thanks for that Brian, that was very concise and is exactly my view!

[trigrem]

Commenting on the view that theC&cc can be worked on from within via its Motorhome Section. In the autumn 2005 edition of the sections magazine the then editor had the temerity to criticise some aspects of the parent club. He was supported in the next issue by members letters. The executive committee of the parent club (C &CC) instructed the Excecutive Committee of the Motorcaravan section that they should inspect and censor any comments made in the section magazine. The Editor refused to carry on under those conditions and is no longer Editor. The Executive Committee of the Section is now working to the Parent clubs "Censor" rules. So any attempt to attempt to effect the running of the C&CC via the Motorcaravanning Section is a non starter, they do not want constructive criticism only obedience. They are a Company not a Club.

[michele]

That's interesting.............. (^)

[howie]

May I put in a good word for the Motor Caravaners Club. I am not a member, but on quite a few occasions I have had the pleasure of their company while by coincidence sharing the same site. They may not be the dynamic forward thinking organisation that we all seem to be looking for, but this leisurely attitude to life only seems to add to their charm. I for one would be saddened to see this club changed in any way. Far better I feel to address any grieveances from within the two main clubs of which many of us are already members. As already suggested, getting together a strong pressure group representing motorcaravaners seems the best way forward. Howard.

[Geoff Bell]

I too am not a member of the MCC but I know people who are and they would not change anything. They absolutely love it as it is, and I am seriously thinking about joining.

[enrico]

So thats it then but thanks to all who replied. I must admit I wouldn`t be too keen on a club who started talking about bingo etc but it does seem to have some good points if you believe all you read. I just thought it a good idea but seeing as this thread has had so many viewings and not many responses it would obviously be a no goer. Thanks again :'( :'( :'(

[david lloyd]

Enrico Not quite finished yet - somewhere near the start of this thread I promised to let everyone know if and when I got a reply from the MCC. My apologies for the slight delay but I was waiting for permission from Vic Lancaster to reproduce his reply on the forum and he has contacted me today to say that is OK. So, here it is, together with my reply to the sender: *********************************************************** Subject: The Motor Caravanners Club and Aires ( Motorhome Stopovers Project ) Dear David, I am responding to your approach to the MCC in my capacity as a a member of the MCC Council Of Management and as a team member working on our "Motorhome Stopovers" project. We are currently working on an "Aires" style initiative and are in the final stages of a promotional DVD and presentation material aimed at local authorities, the relevant press and other organisations. Whilst this filming has been progressing over the last year there has been parallel action going on and the first Aire is open and very active in Broughshane NI while others such as Cantebury with facilities opened at the Park & Ride have been initiated; these are shown in the DVD as are comments from the major UK MH manufactures, some local authorities, the press and an MP as well as UK and continental members giving their views. We are making progress but we clearly we need to get a move on with more/better communication of our initial successes and presenting our material to the relevant authorities for action as well as the trade/press publications. We are looking at putting a viewable copy of the DVD on our website in the near future in addition to a distribution list. You are absolutely right in that the major camping clubs are pre-occupied with formal camping facilities and of course, Aires would not be in their best interests as they naturally promote their sites and business needs. You are also right that an increase in MCC membership would add significant leverage to any campaign. We are always looking at how best to approach this with our marketing and membership teams. The more members we have the better we can represent their views and it is a concern that we have yet to capture all those motorhomers into a club aimed at benefitting them specifically. I have, for example, just completed our one month Celts holiday rally in North/Southern Ireland and Scotland with day trips and nightly entertainment; for a small fraction of the cost of camping in formal or commercial sites in high season. The current advantages are clear. I will be away ( rallying with the MCC ) this weekend but we could have a conversation early next week if that helps. One of the things the MCC does is weekend and holiday rallying which is much cheaper than formal sites, allows you to build a circle of friends and often includes the trade shows, balloon festivals, music festivals and other venues of interest. The country is split into groups so that travel distances are minimised, overnight stopping requirements much reduced and local interests catered for. You can of course visit any group whenever you want throughout the UK as well as organised overseas rallys. For your interest in case you are unaware, our website is http://www.motorcaravanners.org.uk/ and lists the groups and rally venues amongst many other things. If you would like a fuller discussion please feel free to contact me as below and I will be happy to provide a fuller insight into what we are trying to do. Best Regards Vic Lancaster Home: 0044 (0)1453 520065 Mobile: 0044 (0)7821 959539 Skype: Viclanc Email: Viclanc@yahoo.co.uk Hi Vic Thank you so much for your quick and informative reply on the approach of the MCC to motorcaravanning. I think one of the major points being raised on the forums at the moment is - would the MCC ever be in a position to provide camping facilities to enable MH's to tour (rather than the excellent rallying facilities presently on offer) in this country. Obviously, this raises significant issues regarding the capital and revenue to develop and run MH specific sites or, the time necessary to work with public and private organisations to establish a network of aires. I would certainly be interested in following up our e-mail exchange next week and examining any ways in which the topic can be progressed. My telephone number is 01287 631292. Would you mind if I reproduced your reply on the Out And About Forum - in the hope that this will show members there that the MCC is attempting to develop this startegy and requires the help and support of all motorhome users by way of additional membership? Best regards, david *********************************************************** Vic Lancaster, in his last e-mail to me, has mentioned that he will contact me later in the week to discuss the issue further. Perhaps it is too much to ask for one specialist motorhome club to develop suitable camping facilities, given the high cost of land and sservices etc. However, as someone who is trying to get local authorities to take a hand and provide better daytime parking and overnight stopping places, perhaps it is not too much to ask that such a club could better drive such proposals at local and national level. Keep debating - in the meantime I will let you know what happens next. Best regards, david

[enrico]

David Quite an upbeat letter to give us a lot of hope for the future. I wrote in this thread earlier that if people were to pay the £24.50 per annum who are in the CC and/or C&CC into the MCC we might achieve what a lot of people seem to want beside the Aires.The more scope the better as far as I`m concerned. Thanks for all your sterling work but should you need an assistant to help anywhere along the way I would endeavour to help providing business allows. Good luck with all and I can`t wait for the reply from MCC. :-D :-D :-D

[david lloyd]

Thank you for those kind words Enrico - I have today had a long telephone conversation with Vic Lancaster from the Motorcaravanners Club. He outlined, as above, the initiatives the club are pursuing with regard to getting more UK stopovers provided by local authorities and is very excited now that the project is nearig completion and ready for release soon. As a non member I was surprised at the amount of work the club has carried out, since, as I explained to Vic, there is very little information circulating in the media or on forums such as this about the club and its work. The club recognises this and are anxious to find ways to publicise itself and its activities to the wider motorhome community. I said earlier that it may not be totally realistic to expect the MCC to begin to rival established clubs like the CC and C&CC in providing full facility sites - given the twin issues of capital acquisition and continuing running costs. However, the MCC also recognises that this is not what the average motorhome user wants. Instead, they have concentrated their efforts on arranging a wide and varied programme of informal rallies around the UK and on the continent. I believe they could, with additional support and income from more members, become the leading organisation representing the views of UK motorhomers and be instrumental in getting those views across to both local authorities and any private enterprises that could provide the minimal facilities for motorhome stopovers (aires). Drawing on the collective knowledge and experience of a committed membership base they are ideally place to carry out a campaigning role not currently undertaken, as far as I am aware, by any other club or organisation. Even MMM, who have for a number of years carried a feature entitled 'The Height Fight' only seem to act as a co-ordinator of information regarding motorhome friendly towns rather than actually campaigning for more and better facilities. Getting anything to happen in this country, particularly involving local government, is a long and frustrating journey (as I know all too well) and is a daunting prospect to anyone tackling it alone. It seems to me like the MCC is at east trying to get the matter further up the agenda of local government, unlike the other major clubs, and are ideally placed to make a significant impact if they can adequately demonstrate the need and the support of motorhome users across the country. I, for one, need to do some serious thinking about whether I continue to support the Caravan Club or give that support to an organisation that could, given time, bring about real change in the provision of suitable motorhome facilities. Best regards, david

[Burstner620]

[QUOTE]david lloyd - 2006-08-08 3:17 PM I said earlier that it may not be totally realistic to expect the MCC to begin to rival established clubs like the CC and C&CC in providing full facility sites - given the twin issues of capital acquisition and continuing running costs. However, the MCC also recognises that this is not what the average motorhome user wants. Instead, they have concentrated their efforts on arranging a wide and varied programme of informal rallies around the UK and on the continent. [/QUOTE] I think you're correct in saying that it would be unrealistic to expect the MCC (or any other "club") to provide full facility sites in the way that the CC and C&CC do. The MCC is still, and hopefully will remain, a club run for the benefit of members rather than a commercial organisation with both eyes firmly fixed on the profit line of their accounts which other "clubs" have become. In this respect, the AA and RAC are no different, it's in the nature of the beast. Vic Lancaster mentioned attending a 4 week holiday rally in Ireland and Scotland but omitted to mention cost. How does 26 nights camping with entertainment every night and a return ferry crossing (around £180) for £400 sound ? Organised by club members for members, not as just another money making operation. As to the "informal rallies", over the years I've been a member of CC, CCC and ICA and was totally taken aback on joining the MCC to be told, "there's no advance booking required for weekend ralies, just turn up". "What does the"average motorhome user" want ?" We tend to use Rally fields and Rugby Clubs as the mainstay with the odd (smaller) commercial sites off season. We've always got fresh water, Elsan disposal and usually electricity (even if it means somebody dragging along the generator which will supply 48 units). For the last two years, I've had both CC and MCC membership, this year I'm down to one. I'll let you guess of which club I'm still a member.

[enrico]

David &Burstner620 This is getting so interesting and has really opened up a can of worms.Its becoming very educational. I think you`re correct David,the MCC appear to be doing a tremendous amount of work behind closed doors all for the good of us all.Surely they deserve our support,I like Burstner620 will be putting my hand in my pocket and donating the £24.50 yearly fee. I would also join in my 1st full year of m/homing CC & C&CC just to obtain the guides and books,then possibly drop them. I feel we need to congratulate the MCC on our behalf for all the sterling,unpaid work they have and still are doing. WELL DONE MCC. :-D :-D :-D

[david lloyd]

Enrico Yes - I think we will be joining you too but I will probably keep my CC membership for use of the CL's - unless and until more progress is made on getting more stopovers created (hopefully with the force of an expanded MCC behind it) when I would happily drop the Caravan Club. With nearly 650 views on this thread I wonder how others view the MCC now and how many would be persuaded to join and give their support for what they are trying to do? Regards, david

[olley]

Hi their public persona is of an old age pensioners club, whenever we see their stand at the shows it looks dated and always seems to be staffed by old people. And their web site seems a bit of a mess, They need to give themselves a makeover, update their web site, renew their stand and get a mixture of age groups on it, I am 56 but at the moment i would be reluctant to join, to me it would seem to be an admission that I was getting old. (lol) Olley

[enrico]

Olley I`m only 57 but it`s not going to stop me from joining,and before its said no I don`t act like an 80 year old.I like to think I`m more like a 40 year old. I wonder if its old fashioned looking because people of our age would rather stand back and let the older ones do all the work instead of getting involved?? I would not consider it an admission of getting old,I would like to and I sincerely hope other people would help and assist thereby possibly bringing the average age of the club downwards. If a younger person who was IT literate assisted, then this may help to bring the website into the 21st century. However none of this can take away the tremendous amount of time and work that the MCC are and have put in.I still say WELL DONE to the MCC. :-D :-D :-D

[Pat P]

I too am impressed with what I have been hearing. It just seems so logical to join the club that specialises in the hobby we hold so dear. So what if they look a little dated!! It won't be long before we all realise that marketing and hype just add to the cost of living and don't actually give us a better service. I too think that I will stay with the CC for the CL's and join the MCC for the kind of future that they appear to offer. Pat :-D

[Guest starspirit]

CC do the best CL's, but CCC (along with MCC) do the best rallies and THS's.

[david lloyd]

[QUOTE]olley - 2006-08-09 3:07 PM Hi their public persona is of an old age pensioners club, whenever we see their stand at the shows it looks dated and always seems to be staffed by old people. And their web site seems a bit of a mess, They need to give themselves a makeover, update their web site, renew their stand and get a mixture of age groups on it, I am 56 but at the moment i would be reluctant to join, to me it would seem to be an admission that I was getting old. (lol) Olley[/QUOTE] Hi Olley Like enrico I am also under the age of 60. As Brian said earlier about the Caravan Club and Camping and Caravanning Club - if they are to change the only way to change them is from within. The same applies to the Motorcaravanners Club. If all the younger motorhome owners simply stand on the sidelines and point out the faults I'm not sure that any of the clubs will make the change. I think a club like the MCC is well positioned to make a big difference to the shape of motorhoming in this country - given the right impetus - and this can only come from its' membership which, it seems, currently attracts members who enjoy rallying as a primary leisure pursuit with their motorhomes. Although the MCC does also provide other facilities that members can take advantage of. If, as enrico says, the average age of the MCC membership is brought down surely this would have a significant affect on the direction the club and the council of management takes for the future. If that were to happen not only would we all benefit from a more motorhome friendly club supporting the pastime but we would not need to feel like joining was an admission of getting old! Regards, david

[Burstner620]

[QUOTE]olley - 2006-08-09 3:07 PM Hi their public persona is of an old age pensioners club, whenever we see their stand at the shows it looks dated and always seems to be staffed by old people.[/QUOTE] Never having attended a UK Show (shock, horror) I've never seen the stand or the "old people" on it. This "oldER (if you don't mind) person" (63) is too busy swanning off for four weeks in May over the water - http://www.ian-stewart.dsl.pipex.com/itinery.html and then heading for the Caravan Salon and another 4 weeks next week ! (Having brought back a new Weinsberg from Germany in the interim) [QUOTE]And their web site seems a bit of a mess,[/QUOTE] Agreed. The front page is cluttered and messy. I suspect that, like Topsy, "it just growed". An intro. page should really be fairly simple for visitors to take in at a glance. [QUOTE]I am 56 but at the moment i would be reluctant to join, to me it would seem to be an admission that I was getting old. (lol) ,[/QUOTE] You are ! (getting old, that is). The alternative is not too attractive. [QUOTE]david lloyd - 2006-08-09 8:28 PM I think a club like the MCC is well positioned to make a big difference to the shape of motorhoming in this country - given the right impetus - and this can only come from its' membership which, it seems, currently attracts members who enjoy rallying as a primary leisure pursuit with their motorhomes. [/QUOTE] We only see about half of our lot in the Summer, they disappear to Spain in the Winter ! [QUOTE]Although the MCC does also provide other facilities that members can take advantage of. [/QUOTE] I get my Camping Carnet, Stellplatze Bord Atlas, France Passion Membership and Camper Stop book from them. One Stop Shopping ! I'm pleased to see such a positive reaction in many of these responses. I think that, to date, much of the publicity has been word of mouth. If there is a sudden leap in membership numbers which overwhelms the Membership Secretary, please don't mention my name.

[olley]

Hi Ian I appreciate that the MCC does a lot of work to promote MH behind the scenes, and they are to be congratulated for this. However in my experience you either grow or go into decline, the appearance of the club to me rightly or wrongly is of an old fashioned club in decline. We joined the CC for the CL network and the CCC for the RAC breakdown service. (The RV weighs 9 tonnes) We did speak to one of the guys on the MCC stand but couldn't see any benefit in joining. And as for admitting that I am getting old never!!!!!!!!!!!! :-D Now where did I put that tin hat?? Olley

[michele]

where ever you put them asbestos knickers. Mels word's not mine......... (lol)

[roger s]

On the subject of RVs, have never seen one on either a CC or a C&CC rally but you see see quite a few on MCC rallies

[enrico]

Good to see some new names appearing.Lets keep the message going.The more people that read it the better. I`ve done the very same thread on Motorhomefacts and thats had a huge amount of people reading and replying.All good stuff. >:-) >:-) >:-)