Mountain_Biker Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Good Day All One of the doors on my motorhome has a lump on it about 15cm in diameter and about 1cm high where the exterior panel of the door has 'delaminated'. As I understand it, the panels are a sandwich construction. Has anyone successfully repaired such a panel - I imagine drilling a fine hole and squirting in some suitable adhesive, weighing the repair down to re-affix the panel to the inner core. To replace the door is a lot of money! Plus I am sure there would be some colour fade. Any thoughts....Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Greetings. Can you say what make/type your van is, and how old it is? I assume this is an external door, but is it the habitation door, or a locker door? Also, what is the material that has deformed? Aluminium sheet, GRP sheet, or other? My first reaction to your idea is that all you are likely to have to bond to is some form of rigid insulation, probably eps, which has very little strength compared to the strength of either sheet aly or GRP. So, I'm afraid I don't think it would hold for long, if at all. My second reaction is that whereas some panel irregularity is fairly normal, what you describe sounds abnormal. Most irregularities develop from seasonal expansion/contraction of the surface sheet, which eventually doesn't quite get back to its starting condition and develops slight ripples. A blister of 150mm diameter, with a 10mm height at centre, seems unlikely to have been generated through this process. I suspect that something beneath the sheet may be expanding/swelling at this point, to push out the blister, and I wonder if that something may be wood. If so, it may point to water penetration into the door panel. Can you post pictures of the door and the blister, preferably with a ruler taped onto the panel so that the scale is apparent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolly1965 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I have the same problem with the door on our 2006 Bessacarr E765 - It's GRP and is perhaps 20cm and bulges about 10mm. I have heard they can be repaired by the method mentioned but the door needs to be removed and clamped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 This is evidently not an unknown problem (and seems to have afflicted the doors fitted to Swift models particularly): http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/bessacarr/20970-bulge-e425-habitation-door.html http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftoptitle-133276-habitation-door-delamination.html If the 'blister' can be manually pushed back into its original position, the injection-methods used to treat a delaminated floor should have a reasonable chance of success. If the 'blister' cannot be pushed back, then (as Brian warns) something solid beneath the blister is deforming the door's skin outwards and that solid object would need to be removed to effect a cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 From Derek's links it seems the outer skin is GRP and not aly. This blister has probably developed spontaneously rather than being caused by expansion of something beneath. As Derek suggests, if it can be pushed back flat there should be no underlying cause. My only question then is whether it matters, other than cosmetically? If the door is not leaking there is no real need to fix the blister, but if it annoys you the method of drilling through the door from inside, as described in the link to MHF, seems better than drilling in from the outside. For best the result I think you would need to take the door off, carefully drill it from behind to just penetrate the void behind the blister, lay it on a flat surface, inject one of the compounds normally used for de-laminated floors in vans, and then carefully weight it down so that the blister is flattened. It may hold over time, it may not, but it should work in at least in the short term. Drilling from outside presents the difficulty of ensuring the drill hole is left sealed and invisible, otherwise another problem will be created. It also means that any resin displaced as the blister is flattened will tend to exude back through the drill hole, possibly bonding to whatever is used to flatten the blister. Avoidable, but tricky, and potentially a real mess if it goes wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-06-04 6:04 PM From Derek's links it seems the outer skin is GRP and not aly.... I don't think Mountain_Biker has ever provided details of the make/model/year of motorhome he owns, so it's impossible to tell what his door's outer skin is made of. While this may not be critical in this instance, it does make it impracticable to research usefully whether there's any 'history' of this type of problem occurring with Mountain_Biker's make/model of vehicle. Providing details of the make/model/year of a motorhome is not hard and, for some inquiries, essential. Details can be inserted in the "Interests" box of one's Forum Profile accessed via the Forum Control Panel (as Brian and I have done) and this is the most effective approach. A few forum members have inserted their motorhome details within their "Signature", but this is less effective as viewing poeple's signature is optional (and I've opted not to view signatures as I find them even more irritating than animated avatars). If providing motorhome details within "Interests" or "Signature" is too much trouble (or you think it's too Big Brotherish), it's always possible to include such details within a posting as Bolly1965 has helpfully done earlier in this thread. If an inquiry has no immediately-obvious motorhome details, either within the inquiry's text or in the "Interests" section, and I feel that knowing such details will be useful/essential, I'll alter my own Profile to view Signatures just in case the details are there. If that's no good (and it rarely is), I'll look for vehicle details in the inquirer's previous postings (assuming there are any, of course). This all wastes time and, even if I manage to find motorhome details in previous postings, there's no guarantee that the inquirer still owns that vehicle. Mountain_Biker' apparently has owned a quite large, Fiat-based, post-2006 (based on it's quoted power-output) motorhome, but that information may now be out of date. There used to be a 'sticky' thread from the Forum Moderator encouraging members to provide details of their motorhome when making an inquiry. This (together with a good deal of other useful stuff) seems to have disappeared. It's plain commonsense that there ought to be an obvious facility within a Forum Profile to detail what the forum member owns (motorhome, caravan 'outfit', tent, etc.) and that new forum members should be directed to that facility at the forum registration stage and be encouraged to use it. But, as there never has been such a facility and there's little likelihood one will be added, it's really down to forum members to be proactive and use the "Interests" work-around or provide such details within inquiries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain_Biker Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 Hmm I take the comments about the van details.... It is a 2007 Rapido with Aly exterior panels. The door is an exterior locker door. I can push the bulge in and there is no resistance, so this points to it not being something pushing it out, but hey, anything is possible. From the research I have done into such problems, where a company were to carry out the repair, there would be no guarantee, it seems whilst a repair can be attempted, it may cause more trouble. Thanks for the comments.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 just remove and drill a good few holes from the inside trying not to drill right through! and inject with sealant and compress with clamps, could probably do it with door in place if careful...But if water getting in around frame edge you may have to address that as well. but to be honest if no resistance and it pushes in easily its just delamination and a relatively straightforward fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Derek Uzzell - 2013-06-05 8:09 AM Brian Kirby - 2013-06-04 6:04 PM From Derek's links it seems the outer skin is GRP and not aly.... I don't think Mountain_Biker has ever provided details of the make/model/year of motorhome he owns, so it's impossible to tell what his door's outer skin is made of. ................. Ah! I had concluded, wrongly, that you knew it was a Swift because your links were Swift related. Wasn't doing too well yesterday, was I? :-) In the light of what he has now said about make, materials, and that it is a locker door, I'd be inclined to leave alone, or simply try taking a couple of sheets of ply, clamping them either side of the door, and leaving as long as possible to see if the blister will re-absorb. Aluminium is notoriously difficult to work, and once deformed will generally not re-absorb irregularities. But, some alloys may, so this is possibly worth a try. For a locker door it might be possible to remove the door, dismantle the frame (they seem usually to be in two halves), flatten the existing sheet, apply a spray on adhesive, then clamp flat and reassemble when the adhesive has "gone off". Not at all sure I would, though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain_Biker Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 Thank you Brian I know you a frequent contributer and expert on the forum - from my perspective, you are teriffic.... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 While (as JudgeMental advises) fixing this problem should be relatively straightforward, there's plenty of scope for a cock-up. As Brian says, it's unlikely that just clamping the door will have any useful effect. I'm also doubtful that the type of adhesive used to attach the outer skin would react to heat, making it sticky enough to re-stick skin to the door's inner material. This leaves the drilling-from-the-back approach as the most realistic approach. I'm not sure that Mountain_Biker's Rapido has bodywork with an all-alumium outer skin. Historically, Rapido's body panels have been GRP-skinned but (around 2007) bodywork with an Alu-Fiber outer skin has been employed on some models. Alu-Fiber is a composite of a thin aluminum outer skin bonded to a GRP under-layer and, if that's what's on Mountain_Biker's door, there's the possibility that the aluminium skin has detached from the GRP under-layer, not from the insulation material within the door. When drilling from the rear, care would need to be taken not to damage the outer skin, but extreme care would be required if Alu-Fiber is involved as the outer aluminium skin is particularly thin. As the 'bulge' is around 1cm high, the volume of the void behind it should be large enough to contain an adequate quantity of adhesive squirted in from the rear. For appearances sake it's would be necessary to disguise the holes in the back of the dooor, so making one big hole that accesses the back of the bulge may be better than trying to squirt adhesive through several small holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 While you need to be careful with the drilling ( best to do slowly and test as you do it with tent peg or other implement, until you meet a differnt resistance. First measure thickness and put tape around drill bit so you cant drill to far. Even if you we're to drill through ( pretty unlikely if careful) a sticker or touch up would suffice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Don't worry Derek....I'm sure Mountain_Biker thinks that you're terrific too.... (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 pepe63 - 2013-06-06 9:15 AM Don't worry Derek....I'm sure Mountain_Biker thinks that you're terrific too.... (lol) I'm not worried - it's common knowledge. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Mountain_Biker - 2013-06-05 7:19 PM Thank you Brian I know you a frequent contributer and expert on the forum - from my perspective, you are teriffic.... ;-) You are toooooooooooo kind, Sir - but look at the trouble you've now got me into! :-D I hadn't realised Rapido had gone into AluFiber, though I do remember reading that they had departed from GRP on some of their "less expensive" models. If this is the case on your van, and "terrific Derek" is right in his hunch that it is, in effect, delamination of the AluFiber sheet that is at fault, it poses quite a challenge to repair. If the AluFiber is coming apart, I can only suppose that what has started may develop further, since it will have originated from nothing initially and spread to its present size presumably unaided before you spotted it. It is a bit unfair to heap all Rapido problems at Wokingham Motorhomes' door, but they have an excellent reputation for their ability to get Rapido problems sorted out with the factory, in no small measure due to their part-time French employee who shuttles back and forth between them and the Mayenne factory. They also have a very long-standing relationship with Rapido, pre-dating motorhome days, and once traded as Rapido UK. So, despite my reservations about involving them, if it is the AluFiber - bearing in mind the difficulty of the possible DIY fix - I think it might be worth contacting Wokingham Motorhomes to enquire if they have experience of similar problems with this material. It may be that in conjunction with the factory they could suggest a remedy, or could repair, or replace, the door. It is possible that a batch, or even a single sheet, of the material is known to be defective, in which case some contribution to the cost of repair just might be offered. Wouldn't bet on it, but you never know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.