X2/50 2.2 gear ratios

[Steve928]

Could any one with a Boxer/Relay X2/50 2.2hdi 130bhp Euro5 motorhome please tell me how many indicated miles per hour the vans do per 1000 revs. in 6th. gear?

 

Or what the revs are at say 60mph or 70mph in 6th. etc..

 

Considering changing the van and if I could get slightly more relaxed motorway cruising than with my current 2.2hdi 5 speed van then that could help with the decision.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Brian Kirby]

I note you have excluded the Ducato version. Is that deliberate? I only ask because so many more vans are Fiat based than Citroen/Peugeot, which has implications for your range of choice.

 

Also, I wonder if it might help if you were to say what van you currently have, as it may give a clue as to why you are (apparently) finding motorway cruising less than relaxing. I assume you are finding engine noise intrusive?

 

I am a little surprised if that is the case, because most testers and posters with X250 variants seem to have found them very quiet compared to their earlier incarnations. I have no driving experience of these, but have been very impressed by how quiet they are externally when manoeuvring.

 

Is it possible that, in course of conversion, an engine bulkhead seal might not have been correctly re-fitted? A surprisingly small hole, only about 25mm square, will pretty much negate any amount of acoustic shielding. If so, plugging the gap would be a much cheaper route to a quieter drive than a new van! Not that I'm trying to put you off, mind. :-)

[gocro]

If you just want more 'relaxed' driving why not consider getting the engine 'chipped'

to give more power at lower gears , this will cost around £200 against the thousands(probably) you will

be out of pocket changing vans, especially if you like the van you have got already.

[Steve928]

Brian - I excluded the Ducato version because I thought that the 2.2 (2198cc PUMA) engine had been dropped from the Fiat line-up in Euro5 guise (perhaps I'm wrong there) and figures from the 2.3 and its different gearbox wouldn't be relevant. Anyway the vans that I'm considering are on the Peugeot base.

I don't think that anything is wrong with my current van ('08 Elddis) mechanically or otherwise - I just think it could easily pull a higher top gear, which as someone who finds lower revs intrinsically more relaxing, I would prefer. I asked the question to determine whether the top gear in the 6 speed box is indeed higher or whether the extra gear has just been used to close up the rather large gaps between gears in the 5 speed transmission.

 

Gocro - thanks but I don't feel the need for extra power and extra power wouldn't change the engine revs at a given speed. The van has bags of power and could easily pull a higher top gear - hence the question.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

I don't know if this applies to your van, Steve, but I believe some variants could be specified with one of two different final drive ratios. If yours is in that category, and Elddis specified the lower ratio, it could account for relatively higher revs at cruising speeds. Our van (Transit base) had the same engine, but I don't know about the gearbox. However, it ran at around 2,500rpm at 70mph, but I tended to cruise it, conditions permitting, at about 65mph/2,300rpm. I have to say that at that speed it was quite civilised, and normal conversation was easily possible.

 

However, it was a low profile, and I'd guess relatively slippery, so if yours has a "Luton" bed, it may have been equipped with a low ratio transaxle to cope better with headwinds. If you do have the low ratio transaxle, you might be able to get it changed for the high ratio version. Whether that could be done on exchange (which I doubt), or what costs might be involved, I have no idea. But, if you give the chassis No (VIN) to your nearest Peugeot commercial dealer, they should be able to advise what version of the transaxle is fitted, whether there is an alternative, and whether a swap would be possible.

 

Just a suggestion, in case you'd prefer to keep the van, if you could just improve the the driving experience. Apologies in advance if it is a bum steer! :-)

[Steve928]

Yes I think that could well have been the case, Brian, although whether it was a case of convertors specifying different ratios or just getting what happened to come out of the Sevel parts bin is a different matter.

 

Certainly an indicated, and hence very optimistic, 70m.p.h. in our over-cab van comes at 3050r.p.m. which although very refined and reasonably quiet at those revs is still somehow just a little too, well, hectic if you know what I mean.

 

I've already replaced the 215/70 Vanco Campers with Falken 225/70s which are anyway a tall tyre and that has made an appreciable difference to the actual speed and we can now sit in with the faster wagons at around 2500r.p.m which isn't too bad.

 

This is just one of factors affecting a decision to change, so I'd still like the data if anyone has it.

[auntyjanet1]

Steve,

I used to have a 2.2 boxer with the Puma engine(5gears). But have recently changed to a 2013 Peugot 2.2 ,6 speed box and would prefer the old 5 speed as the new model (euro5) seems to be lower geared,I am sure that the engine is aPuma but cannot check now as we are in Saumur and its chucking it down

8o|

[Steve928]

Thanks Cliff - yes if it is the 2.2 it will be the same Puma engine.

 

I would love to know your revs at a given speed in 6th gear if you would take a note next time you hit the autoroute.

[auntyjanet1]

Steve928 - 2013-06-19 7:29 AM

 

Thanks Cliff - yes if it is the 2.2 it will be the same Puma engine.

 

I would love to know your revs at a given speed in 6th gear if you would take a note next time you hit the autoroute.

 

We are off today on toll road from Saumur to Bruges will take note of speed /revs etc ,next Internet connection I will post results

[Steve928]

Excellent, many thanks Cliff.

 

And Brian, sorry I omitted to respond to your point about a possible gearbox exchange for one with a higher ratio final drive. The problem I see with that would be that it would raise the reverse gear ratio also.

Reverse is only just low enough now, even after Peugeot rebuilt the gearbox with a lower reverse gear when the van was almost new.

[snowie]

Hi Steve;

I have a Ducato 2.3/6Speed, so I'll not reply in detail on that aspect. Suffice to say that I find it relaxing at 70mph (when necessary).

However; I think that road surface noise contributes more to my state of relaxation than 2-300rpm in 6th! It can also vary mile by mile, particularly on non-motorways.

Our "whitevan" originally had Bridgestones on the front, and I changed to Continentals last year and have noticed a real improvement in noise and ride, particularly after discussions with Continental regarding tyre pressures.

regards

alan b

[Guest JudgeMental]

I have the 2.3 6 speed as well, and it cruises beutifully at well above 70 mph, it's a pleasure to drive. I normally drive by sat nav as speed indicator more reliable. If I'm doing 75'ish speedo will read around 70

 

2011 van so euro 4

[Brian Kirby]

Steve928 - 2013-06-19 7:51 AM

 

Excellent, many thanks Cliff.

 

And Brian, sorry I omitted to respond to your point about a possible gearbox exchange for one with a higher ratio final drive. The problem I see with that would be that it would raise the reverse gear ratio also.

Reverse is only just low enough now, even after Peugeot rebuilt the gearbox with a lower reverse gear when the van was almost new.

Yes, sorry Steve, I forgot about the high reverse ratio problem. :$ Probably bet to put that idea to rest, then! :-)

[auntyjanet1]

Steve,

Just returned from France,my record of revs/mph in 6th gear,on journey Saumur/Rouen/Dunkirk mainly on motorway was

2000/60 mph

2250/65 mph

2500/70/mph

2750/75 mph

3000/80mph

It will happily go down to1700 revs and pick up again,

 

Reverse gear is very different from the euro4, You have to adapt to a different method which takes some getting used to. After engaging reverse remove your foot completely off the clutch pedal and don't use any revs!.

Hope this info is of some use to you ,forgot to say that on a 1800 mile journey to and from France I got 29mpg calculated by keeping record of each fill up and mileage completed. Total mileage of van is now 3322 miles so it should get a little better when engine has done more mileage

[Guest Peter James]

auntyjanet1 - 2013-06-21 9:12 PM

 

Steve,

Just returned from France,my record of revs/mph in 6th gear,on journey Saumur/Rouen/Dunkirk mainly on motorway was

2000/60 mph

2250/65 mph

2500/70/mph

2750/75 mph

3000/80mph

It will happily go down to1700 revs and pick up again,

 

Reverse gear is very different from the euro4, You have to adapt to a different method which takes some getting used to. After engaging reverse remove your foot completely off the clutch pedal and don't use any revs!.

Hope this info is of some use to you ,forgot to say that on a 1800 mile journey to and from France I got 29mpg calculated by keeping record of each fill up and mileage completed. Total mileage of van is now 3322 miles so it should get a little better when engine has done more mileage

 

That cannot be right. If it was doing 60mph at 2000 revs (as mine does) it would be doing 90mph at 3,000 revs

 

(Mine is a 2008 manufactured Citroen Relay 2.2 (PUMA) 120bhp Euro 4 6 speed L4 H2 Heavy (3.5tonne) panel van. 34.3mpg over the 30,000 miles I have had it, running at 3.25 tonnes GVW although plated for 6.5 tonnes GTW, apparently the speedo is accurate as it agrees exactly with those roadside radar speed displays at 30mph. In 6th gear it is indicating 45mph at 1500 revs, 60mph at 2,000 revs. It has not had the reverse gear fix - I read somewhere this can involve a lower final drive ratio that lowers all the gear ratios, not just reverse?)

[Guest Peter James]

Steve928 - 2013-06-18 2:49 PM

my current 2.2hdi 5 speed van then that could help with the decision.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

The 6 speed Euro 4 is 120bhp. The 5 speed Euro 4 was chipped at 100bhp. So presumably would have had lower ratios, especially for an overcab coachbuilt, even before the reverse gear 'fix'?

[flicka]

Our previous van Autocruise Sportstar with the 2.2L 5 speed 100hp Euro 4 Peugeot engine was significantly harsher than our current Adria Sport with the 2.3L, 6 speed, 130hp, 6 speed Fiat engine.

 

IMHO the Fiat is a much more relaxed drive but I haven't recorded the revs at any given speed

Fuel consumption is better. (almost 20% currently 33.8mpg) & I suspect the top gear ratio is higher.

[Steve928]

Thanks to all for the information and especially to Cliff for taking the trouble to take some readings for me whileon his holiday.

It looks like a 500ish r.p.m. drop at our normal cruising speed can be expected which really is quite significant (to me at least).

 

In the interim we've decided on the van we want, which has just come into stock at our local dealer, and agreed terms but it's all subject to a test drive on Monday when I'll get to see if it comes up to my expectations in this regard.

 

That could be the start of a new saga though as the destination for said test drive wil be the local weighbridge. As this van has a very long wheelbase and most of the weight in the fixtures and fittings, driver and passengers, load in cupboards etc. seems to me to loading the front axle, with very little chance to place weight behind the rear axle, I'm not at all sure it's going to be a viable prospect weight-wise. The dealer phoned the manufacturer while I was in his office to ask for the axle loadings of the empty (or MIRO) van but they couldn't help, which I found suprising to say the least. I've set myself what I consider to be a sensible weight for the front axle with an empty van plus driver and passenger and we'll see how it goes..

 

I hope it works out though as I'm getting excited already!

[Guest Peter James]

flicka - 2013-06-21 10:42 PM

 

Our previous van Autocruise Sportstar with the 2.2L 5 speed 100hp Euro 4 Peugeot engine was significantly harsher than our current Adria Sport with the 2.3L, 6 speed, 130hp, 6 speed Fiat engine.

 

The 100hp version of the Euro 4 Puma engine has a solid flywheel, wheras the 120hp version of the same engine has a dual mass flywheel. Don't know about the Fiat engine.

[Brian Kirby]

If you say what van you're thinking of getting Steve, someone may have experience of how the axle loads work out in practise.

[Steve928]

Brian Kirby - 2013-06-22 1:11 PM

 

If you say what van you're thinking of getting Steve, someone may have experience of how the axle loads work out in practise.

 

A Bailey 760, Brian

It comes plated at 3850Kg but in reality that is not achievable as the maximum axle weights on the Alko plate are 1850 front and 2000 rear - you' would have to be very precise to get anywhere near 3850 legally and even then you would be pushing it on the standard 109 load rated tyres.

 

As a 6 seater with 6 belted seats up front I can't beilieve it would work at all, but as we want it as a 2 occasionally 4 berth it might just be possible.

 

The problem in my mind is the wheelbase which is a very long 4.7 metres. The 740/745 models are the same body length but feature a much shorter wheelbase. The salesman was sure that the long wheelbase would be due to some engineer's calculation regarding weight distribution or such but I'm more cynical and expect that is was derived from the need to fit the wheelarches into the interior floorplan - if they were located any further forward they wouldn't have been able to put the bathroom abd toilet where they are.. Unless I'm completely wrong, the effect of moving the rear axle rearwards would be to transfer weight onto the front axle?

 

Thre bathroom, galley, fuel tank, driver and passengers, fresh and waste water tanks, gas bottles are all ahead (or perhaps on in case of the fresh water tank) of the rear axle with the leisure battery being the only heavy item aft. After that it's down to what you can put in the rear lounge overhead lockers, under the bunks or on the bikerack to carry weight at the rear.

 

Hopefully I'm being way too cautious and it will all be good, but I am aware of the problems that many with long wheelbase PVCs have had with front axle loadings - I'll let you know after Monday's weighing.

[Steve928]

Took a test drive today and 6th. gear gave 26.7mph/1000revs, so 60mph at approx. 2250rpm for example.

So it's higher geared than our present 5 speed but not a sea-change - with our present top gear falling between the 5th. and 6th. gear of the 6 speeder.

 

We won't be buying the van, however, as the result of the trip to the weighbridge was that I fail to see how it could be operated with just driver and passenger aboard (let alone 2 or even the 4 passengers occupying the belted seats..) and stay within its front axle weight limit! Sadly, a non-starter.

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Well ........At least Steve you found this out before buying it unlike some!