Should older drivers be retested?

[Guest Had Enough]

Here's another subject that's not religious or political, so let's see if we can draw in a few more posters to Chatterbox.

 

It's pretty obvious that as we age our faculties diminish. The thought of one or two people I know driving a huge motorhome is a bit scary.

 

Should drivers be retested at a certain age? I'm not suggesting a full rigorous test as taken by new drivers, more of a short examination of their driving skills. We would have to pay as it would cost money but I'd suggest that if anyone failed they could carry on driving for three months during which they could re-sit it.

 

It would force us to get out the highway code again and concentrate our minds on our own skills.

 

When should it be done? I think that seventy is too early as these days most people are very fit and alert at that age but perhaps at 75, then at 80 and after 80 at three year intervals.

 

[donna miller]

Yes it is a good idea for the very reasons you have stated. The only thing I would disagree with you on would be the age, I would suggest 70 as it coincides with the loss of your entitlement to drive larger vehicles anyway. You could be given a refresher test on your car driving abilitiy, and the option to keep your 3500kg plus entitlement by means of appropriate additional testing.

As you say, it need not be a full test and 3 yearly intervals would be appropriate, as long as the DSA and DVLA didn't turn it into a cash generating scheme by way of sky high fees.

[Frankkia]

"as long as the DSA and DVLA didn't turn it into a cash generating scheme by way of sky high fees."

 

And there is the rub - Just try and stop 'em!

[Guest pelmetman]

Having just returned from my speed awareness course :D.......................the majority of drivers were the wrong side of 50 ;-)......................and for mostly 34+ in a 30.............there was one other driver like me caught out driving a van at below 70 on a dual carriageway *-)

 

It was interesting that there were no youngsters, the instructor said it was because they didn't just break the speed limit they smashed it 8-)..................so went straight to court *-)

 

So on reflection........seeing as most of the drivers were in the older age group.........and admitted speeding due to a lack of concentration, then perhaps some kind of refresher course would be in order :-|

 

For info the course cost 90 quid 8-)

[pepe63xnotuse]

Yes..without a shadow of a doubt.

 

But I can't see it ever happening, as it'd be a "grey vote" loser.

Even the most common sense of changes, that'd impact on the "elderly", will always be met with cries of, "...they're picking on vulnerable pensioners..." etc..

 

Some on here bleat about being having to pay for a medical to keep their "rights" to drive over 3500kg....heaven only knows what they'd make of having to take a test?! :-S

 

(OT..but there was a thread a while back, about the so called "bedroom tax", anyway, some were up in arms,with the usual(and I paraphrase here): "..I've paid into it...I've brought my kids up here...on a fixed pension..it's a disgrace.." etc. and yet when it was pointed out that it wouldn't apply to pensioners, it all went quite...nobody gave a stuff about it then(...basically,"I'm alright Jack!")

 

As for the costs of any test/course,well,just because they'd charge for it, doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. ;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Just to add I'm not convinced it should be a pass or fail test..............just a refresher course ;-)

[pepe63xnotuse]

pelmetman - 2013-06-19 6:33 PM

 

Just to add I'm not convinced it should be a pass or fail test..............just a refresher course ;-)

 

So what happens it they are found to be a total liability?

Does the assessor/instructor just send them on their way then...?(...presumably because they're "a nice old chap"?)...

..and yes, I know drivers of any age can be liabilities but that's not we're talking about here.

 

And from what I can gather from reading on forums such as this ,even the existing medical that is required at 70 seems to be a bit hit and miss and little more than a "tick box" exercise.... :-S

 

How often do we see someone elderly,*tentatively fumbling* their way along the pavement/across a carpark, only for us to then see them clamber behind the wheel of a big(powerful!)car, large MH or 4x4 with caravan..8-) .

..and there will still be some on the roads who have never have taken any proper test at all... :-S

 

But it's all this "..Oh..but it gives them their independence..." lark.

It's a bit late when they've mounted the kerb and hit a bus queue.....

 

(* I'm trying to be diplomatic with that phrase..but you know what I mean ;-) )

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Bexhill-on-Sea was a great retirement spot for years, so had a largely elderly population. (The crack was that if you looked out to sea on a fine day you could just see the continent, and if you looked inland you could see just the incontinent.)

 

Sussex police had an expression they used following various kinds of incident in the town: that it had invloved a TBD. TBD = Typical Bexhill Driver!

 

So, if the age difference is that noticeable to the police, I think some kind of test highly desirable. It seems some didn't get their eyes tested because of the cost of new glasses! Makes you think!

[Guest pelmetman]

pepe63 - 2013-06-19 7:16 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-06-19 6:33 PM

 

Just to add I'm not convinced it should be a pass or fail test..............just a refresher course ;-)

 

So what happens it they are found to be a total liability?

Does the assessor/instructor just send them on their way then...?(...presumably because they're "a nice old chap"?)...

..and yes, I know drivers of any age can be liabilities but that's not we're talking about here.

 

And from what I can gather from reading on forums such as this ,even the existing medical that is required at 70 seems to be a bit hit and miss and little more than a "tick box" exercise.... :-S

 

How often do we see someone elderly,*tentatively fumbling* their way along the pavement/across a carpark, only for us to then see them clamber behind the wheel of a big(powerful!)car, large MH or 4x4 with caravan..8-) .

..and there will still be some on the roads who have never have taken any proper test at all... :-S

 

But it's all this "..Oh..but it gives them their independence..." lark.

It's a bit late when they've mounted the kerb and hit a bus queue.....

 

(* I'm trying to be diplomatic with that phrase..but you know what I mean ;-) )

 

 

Fair comment Pepe ;-)............maybe if the instructor does notice issues............then perhaps a referral for further assessment would be in order............otherwise its going to become a nice little earner for the DVLA, if everyone reaching 70 has to retake their test every 3 years 8-)

 

Just to add...........kids of today will be expected to work until they're 70............so if the powers that be consider the youf of today capable to work full time until then, then they must be assuming people will stay fitter and healthier *-)

[tonyishuk]

Brian Kirby - 2013-06-19 7:38 PM

 

Bexhill-on-Sea was a great retirement spot for years, so had a largely elderly population. (The crack was that if you looked out to sea on a fine day you could just see the continent, and if you looked inland you could see just the incontinent.)

 

Sussex police had an expression they used following various kinds of incident in the town: that it had invloved a TBD. TBD = Typical Bexhill Driver!

 

Anywhere along the south coast is lovingly called "Costa Geratrica"

 

The main problem with being retested at 70, is that you would be about 73 before you got an appointment.

 

Edited to add, my worry is more about the drivers of mobility scooters, there have been several reports of hit and run accidents where the driver has failed to stop after colliding with pedestrians.

Rgds

[Guest pelmetman]

tonyishuk - 2013-06-19 8:19 PM

 

Anywhere along the south coast is lovingly called "Costa Geratrica"

 

When I drove the number 700 bus from Portsmouth to Brighton, the first bus of the day used to get to Worthing at 9.30 am just as the bus passes kicked in 8-)..................We used to call it cripple creek................not very PC I'll admit :D

[Symbol Owner]

tonyishuk - 2013-06-19 8:19 PM my worry is more about the drivers of mobility scooters, there have been several reports of hit and run accidents where the driver has failed to stop after colliding with pedestrians.

 

Now you're talking Tony! We could start a new thread on this one!

 

Here's just one among many recent articles highlighting the danger of the things and that most 'drivers' of them are untrained, with there being few regulations governing their use :- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-21551894

 

Cheers,

 

Colin.

[CliveH]

Statistics indicate that it is the younger drivers that are the most dangerous.

 

And it seems obvious that as our abilities to see, react and comprehend lessen with age, then we will all become liabilities on the road.

 

My Father was a good driver in his day but towards the end I refused to drive with him because he was failing to comprehend that you are supposed to stop at junctions and roundabouts when other drivers had right of way.

 

This lack of ability was frightening. Sadly before we had to do anything he had a heart attack and died in his late 70's.

 

Most of the drivers I see hogging the centre lane on M-ways are elderly. I wonder what effect the new Police Laws will have on this?

 

 

[nowtelse2do]

pepe63 - 2013-06-19 7:16 PM

 

How often do we see someone elderly,*tentatively fumbling* their way along the pavement/across a carpark, only for us to then see them clamber behind the wheel of a big(powerful!)car, large MH or 4x4 with caravan..8-) .

 

 

pepe, you've hit the nail on the head. Just this morning a car pulled up two cars in front of me and about 2 ft from the kerb, everything on our side of the road stopped because we couldn't get past due to it being rush & school run hour.

 

I can't say an old chap got out of the car, what I can say is that an old chap managed to open the door fully, gradually got both legs out and he was then sitting sidewards, next was a bit of fumbling for a walking stick and a heave up on the door. After a good look round to see if he had forgotten anything he shuffled round the car to the cash machine, I'm not kidding when I say shuffled I thought he was going to have to take a rest, he was completely knackered. This man was in no state to drive a car, it was amazing he was still breathing.

 

70, a medical with a reflex test, an eye test with the results to be given to the doctor, lets face it, the eye test is free. and the same test again every three years. If your reflexes and eye sight is good you should not need a test because at 70 plus you will have a vast experience of driving behind you. What I have noticed over the last 4 years or so, is that the young lady drivers seem to be going the same way as most young male driver....reckless.

 

Dave

[nowtelse2do]

CliveH - 2013-06-19 9:09 PM

 

Statistics indicate that it is the younger drivers that are the most dangerous.

 

Most of the drivers I see hogging the centre lane on M-ways are elderly. I wonder what effect the new Police Laws will have on this?

 

 

That 1st bit is true Clive but I'm not so sure about the other bit. The problem is the small diffrence in vehicle speed limits on the motorway, that diffrence is 14 mph. A truck is limited at 56mph though legally can do 60mph (yeh I know, crazy) A coach is limited to 65mph and cars at 70mph. I'm an ex lorry driver and having cars doing 50 to 55 mph in the inside lane is no joke.They can stop in the center lane for all I cared as long as they let me out when I need to overtake another vehicle.

 

Dave

[CliveH]

But surely if a car is doing 50 55 mph in the inside lane then it can al least be overtaken? (Albeit slowly if it is an HGV!)

 

If you are doing 56 or 60 mph - then if a car is doing 50 55 mph in the centre lane then you would have to slow down anyway as you are not allowed to undertake it or use the outside lane to overtake it?

 

My ex Mother in law was one of these - she scared me to death just the once such that I refused to let her drive me on M-ways after a journey where i estimate we all came close to death on at least three occasions.

 

She would happily drive at 50 mph in town where the limit was 30 mph, but when she got on a M-way she stuck in the middle lane at 55 mph and would damn near have a panic attack if she approached 60 mph.

 

Please do not think i am sexist - because most of the "CLOC's" (Centre Lane Owners Club) members I see are elderly males.

 

 

[nowtelse2do]

CliveH - 2013-06-20 7:28 AM

 

But surely if a car is doing 50 55 mph in the inside lane then it can al least be overtaken? (Albeit slowly if it is an HGV!)

 

f you are doing 56 or 60 mph - then if a car is doing 50 55 mph in the centre lane then you would have to slow down anyway as you are not allowed to undertake it or use the outside lane to overtake it?

 

 

She would happily drive at 50 mph in town where the limit was 30 mph, but when she got on a M-way she stuck in the middle lane at 55 mph and would damn near have a panic attack if she approached 60 mph.

 

 

 

Point 1. The logic is sound Clive but the practice was always different , the amount of times I have pulled out to overtake and then they start to speed up was unbelievable.

 

Point 2. The rule book went out the window. If they would not pull over then it was undertake. Just like when you passed your test, did you ever drive like that again? I didn't.

 

Point 3. Now this may sound a bit crazy to some but the Test should be in two parts. First as it is now but not being allowed onto the motorway system until 6 months after passing the test, by that time they should be capable drivers to go in for, shall we say a motorway test, meaning being allowed motorway 'L' plate's and passing a test.

 

I still maintain that the different vehicle speed limits are to close. I believe moves are afoot to raise the speed limits on motorways for cars up to 80mph. One step forward in my book.

 

Dave

[RogerC]

I can't see it happening anytime soon....retesting the 'elderly' would mean a whole industry springing up because as it stands at present there is a shortage of test centres and examiners.  Bringing the 'elderly' into the mix would mean the 'testing machine' would be overwhelmed.  So assuming one arrives at the 'magic' age does one have to stop driving until one gets tested?  If so it would mean literally tens of thousands of people being kept off the road unable to move 'freely' because of our poor/expensive public transport system.  The impact on the individuals, their families and country would be huge.  Public transport could not cope or provide the services needed to 'move' this vast population around.    For some even the mundane things in life such as food shopping would become a nightmare if they had to utilise public transport, not because of the act of using it but because thousands live where there is none available or if there is it involves a number of changes and a much longer journey time.

 

Think more deeply into the suggestion and you might see just how unworkable the idea is financially, in terms of resources, infrastructure, administration (another level of bureaucracy?), test centres to be set up, examiners to be trained etc not to mention the impact on the individual and their families..

[pepe63xnotuse]

So we should just leave some of these doddery old duffers, who are barely able enough to clamber in/out of their vehicles or see past the end of their bonnets, to just keep on driving then?.

(..because it would cost and they wouldn't be able to pop out to get their shopping in..? (lol) )

 

As Dave(Nowtelese'),mentioned earlier in thread, a decent medical, with a proper reflex test and an eye test, should be the very least that is required to keep on driving......

 

 

[Symbol Owner]

Good one Pepe -- only Tories and their governments blench at regulation. As you may have seen from my lengthy post in 'Motorhome Matters' on the 'lady drivers' thread, I hope that I am a responsible 'one-eyed' driver, who has only had one accident -- a minor 'shunt' (due to fatigue when driving for my employer ) in 40 years. But I absolutely agree with Donna's proposals -- they seem to be 'on the button' to me. Ultimately, it is up to all of us to monitor their health and fitnesss to drive -- this arthritis of mine -- which developed suddenly -- goes 'up and down' due to the effect of medication, so that, on a 'good day' my joints etc. give me little or no pain and allow me to drive, as I always have. On other occasions I have known darn well that I would not have been safe as my control of the steering wheel would have been affected by my lack of ability to grip. Now, I'm not saying that I'm perfect, and I'm fortunate in that my wife is a bl**dy fine driver and usually available when I need transport (except when she fell off a horse,shh!!!). It worries me though, when I see drivers such as the gentleman described by Dave (nowtelsetodo). We should all try to be as responsible as possible, but, not everybody is, unfortunately. Therefore, surely, the state should 'step in with regulation,however expensive it is. (For them I mean). Public safety demands it, as the number of older drivers on our roads increases.

 

Colin.

[pepe63xnotuse]

I do think that a hell of a lot more could be done to take the really infirm off the road, without having to introduce additional "tests for all" (which I still think are a good idea,by the way!).

 

My OH is an NHS physio and quite regularly she'll tell of her day and how she's carried out home visits for 85-90+ year olds(no names of cause)and how they've got full "care packages" in place(carers going in several time a day, OTs and Physio visiting etc) and yet, even though they've been deemed infirm enough to warrant all of that, they'll still be driving!!

(.."..Oh,you can't come this morning deary,I'm popping out to get my hair done.."!

 

It's utter madness! 8-)

 

The GPs and health care teams, should be (or allowed to be?)far more "assertive" when it comes to informing DVLA of someone's ability(or lack)to drive...

 

Although one would like to think that the sons/daughters would step in and discourage them from driving, it appears that in many cases, they're happy enough to let them get on with it...

 

Although I know, first hand ,that telling your Dad(..who taught you how to drive...showed you how to change a wheel...fit a new set of points etc...),that you don't think he should drive anymore, isn't easy...after all, he's your Dad for heaven's sake, the bloke you look up to!... :-S

 

So as you say Colin,it does need the "state" to step in..

 

 

[Dave225]

One could look at it from the perspective of insurers. They know who are the most likely to have accidents and older people do not usually fit that category. Yes, there are some who should not be driving but you can say that of any age group. Older drivers, apart from possibly some well known characters.... HEH! Heh! Pelmetman??? do not usually break speed limits consciously. Now I personally have no desire to continue driving into my 80's but many people live where there is no alternative. Any form of testing or re-testing will inevitably turn into a cash cow for the authorities and must be resisted vigorously.

 

Again if you are looking at road safety then cyclists as a group need a heck of a lot more training than they get and insurance should be compulsory as far too many of them are absolute menaces and think the pavements are speed tracks. Where do you stop???

[Symbol Owner]

Dave225 - 2013-06-20 5:14 PM

Again if you are looking at road safety then cyclists as a group need a heck of a lot more training than they get and insurance should be compulsory as far too many of them are absolute menaces and think the pavements are speed tracks. Where do you stop???

 

I couldn't agree more, Dave, all of the above is neccessary, plus regulation of mobility scooters, as referred to above - they are not usually insured - and should be. Where do you stop? When the regulation is sufficiently 'tight' as to cover as many aspects of public safety for all of the users of our roads/tracks/pavements/canal towpaths etc. as possible -- just don't get me started on 4-wheel- drive vehicles/motorbikes on by-ways!

Colin.

 

[George Collings]

First let me declare an interest. I was 70 last birthday.

 

On the face of it a good idea but will it be cost effective.

 

Meaningfull retesting will be expensive. How many accidents are due senile drivers.

 

In my almost 30 years as a police officer I can only recall a couple of accidents where old age was a significant factor. I suspect if it was a serious problem retesting would already be in place.

 

Older drivers on average drive low annual mileages on familiar routes close to home minimising risk.

 

Immobilising them reduces their independance incurring costs to the Health and Social Services.

 

Life is not black and white.

 

I still enjoy driving but once I feel I cannot cope the wheels will go saving a fortune to be spent on taxis

 

 

[RogerC]

Symbol Owner - 2013-06-20 5:25 PM

Dave225 - 2013-06-20 5:14 PMAgain if you are looking at road safety then cyclists as a group need a heck of a lot more training than they get and insurance should be compulsory as far too many of them are absolute menaces and think the pavements are speed tracks. Where do you stop???

I couldn't agree more, Dave, all of the above is neccessary, plus regulation of mobility scooters, as referred to above - they are not usually insured - and should be. Where do you stop? When the regulation is sufficiently 'tight' as to cover as many aspects of public safety for all of the users of our roads/tracks/pavements/canal towpaths etc. as possible -- just don't get me started on 4-wheel- drive vehicles/motorbikes on by-ways!Colin.

Why is that then? ......as long as they are insured and road legal they have as much right as anyone else to use the by-ways where their use is not prohibited.  As for where do you stop....we all know that there are those who would regulate us to death if they could.  In essence you can't regulate for everything.  There has to be some individual responsibility.  However if there is not and a law is broken then that will deal with it.

 

As for the testing of older drivers......be careful what you wish for because someday undoubtedly those who want it will get their wish and yet another nail will be driven into the coffin of freedoms.

It will become a government cash cow to the detriment of thousands of perfectly good/capable older drivers.  And for those who are not 'cash comfortable' in their retirement it will mean enforced stagnation as the cost might just be the one thing that breaks their meager 'motoring' budget.