Insurance for towing and towed a frame cars

[w1ntersun]

Hi all, My Insurance for the M/H is due in Sep and on reading it I am allowed to tow a trailer but the trailer is not covered by the insurance policy. The questions I have are as follows. 1 Do you have to tell the M/H insurance company that I am towing an a-frame. 2 As the car has been modified for a-frame use, I should declare this to the car insurance company but what type of cover do I get as the car is being towed not driven. 3 How is the above affect by going abroad. Any one who has gone through this process I would appreciate there comments and also anyone who tows a trailer with car on top please.

[Mel B]

For memory when we had a trailer for our classic car (Bond Minicar Mk G), the trailer itself was insured separately for accident, theft etc, and the Bond had it's own insurance, which covered it whilst being towed on the trailer. Although the motorhome insurance will allow you to tow it won't, in my experience, ever cover the trailer or a towed vehicle itself, they must have their own insurance. I assume that this is still the case. 1) Tell your motorhome insurers, in writing, that you are towing a car on an A-Frame and insist that they acknowledge the letter, I doubt if they will give a jot in reality but at least if there is an incident they can't use it as a get out clause not to pay up. 2) You must inform the insurers of any modifications made to a car you have insured with them, although I doubt if the modification will cause them any concern at all, but again it closes the 'get out clause' hole and at the same time you can tell them that you intend to tow it in this way to make sure that the normal car insurance you obtain for it also covers you for this. 3) Going abroad (I won't get into the debate about the legallity of A-framing abroad as that's a whole different issue) so long as your UK insurers have given you cover for the motorhome and the tow-car to use them abroad then you are legal to drive them independent of each other which is all that should be required. The basic rule is NEVER hide anything from your insurers, it's not worth the risk of not getting a payout when you really need it.

[Dave Newell]

Hi W1ntersun, Why not pose your three points to your insurance company for comment? Anything we might say on here is pure conjecture while the insurance company should be able to answer your queries precisely. D.

[w1ntersun]

Hi Veteran, Whilst I appreciate your comment I am looking for other peoples experiences at getting this insurance so I am pr-armed before approaching them Richard

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]w1ntersun - 2006-08-05 6:29 PM Hi Veteran, Whilst I appreciate your comment I am looking for other peoples experiences at getting this insurance so I am pr-armed before approaching them Richard[/QUOTE]

Who's the optimist, then!  Good idea to pre-arm yourself, of course, but I believe "A" frame insurance can be a bit tricky, as there is some doubt as to the legality of the "trailer" so created.

If it were a trailer caravan, it would need it's own insurance against any damage to the 'van etc.  However, while being towed such a trailer is viewed as "part" of the vehicle towing it, so the third party risk (damage caused to persons/property by the trailer while attached to the tow vehicle and on public roads) is covered under the tow vehicle insurance.  So, if you swipe a parked car with the caravan the car owner claims from your vehicle insurance, but you have to get the 'van fixed by claiming on the van insurance.  The same principle would apply in the case of a trailer mounted car, and thus to a car towed on an A frame.  The tricky bit is when does the trailer revert to being a car with its own third party insurance. 

I think that is why Dave is suggesting talking to your insurer.  I don't think there are any hard and fast rules, and different insurers are likely to have different restrictions.  The problem is your "trailer" is not a conventional trailer, with conventional trailer insurance.  Some insurers won't touch the risk and you may need to talk to a good broker with Lloyds contacts to get what you want.

Hope this helps

[Dave Newell]

Brian you are a wonder! you managed to precisely deduce my meaning from my brief comment! I should have said all that in my posting but was too lazy really and just thought surely the best people to tell you what cover you need/can get would be the insurance company themselves. D. *-)

[Rowan Lee]

We currently have the motorhome insured with Comfort and the car with Saga. We wrote to both asking/informing them that the car had been modified for the A-frame (we sent copies of Pro-Tow's literature to Saga) and that we intended to tow it behind the motorhome. Both companies wrote to confirm and accept the situation. In fact Comfort sent us a standard letter stating that they often receive enquiries about this. When the Saga insurance becomes due on the car in November, we intend to move it to Comfort (underwriters Norwich Union) so that both vehicles are with the same company. Then if we do have a claim, heaven forbid, we are only dealing with one company and there is less likely to be a problem. That's the theory anyway. We also asked Saga the same question, ie for them to insure the motorhome. However, we decided to go with Comfort because the Saga policy is not a specific motorhome policy. They use their car policy with amendments on the actual schedule which we thought was a bit vague. Good luck.

[Rowan Lee]

PS, that's my sisters Karmann Gypsy in the photo, not the one I use for towing. I must get round to changing the picture!

[enodreven]

Hi, I agree with all of the above, in that, the only people who will give you the facts are your insurance company, But from another site someone made a comment that their insurance company stated that you would need seperate goods in transit insurance for a car while it was on a trailer, and I think they said that a car on a "A" frame was covered by its own insurance ? if that makes sense ?? Just another point how would you get on with your breakdown cover, does that cover a towed car ?? I have seen a number of towed cars and have noticed that some display their own number plates and other have the motorhome plates showing does this affect the car insurance ?

[w1ntersun]

Hi, Rowan lee, Was there any increase from the insurance ie increased risk or was it just a case of notification Richard

[Rowan Lee]

No, there was no increase in the insurance for either vehicle. For the car, Saga issued a new schedule showing the car as "modified". The letter I received from Comfort Insurance states: "We have received a number of enquiries concerning the cover given under the above policy whilst a car is being towed by the motorhome. "Cover under your motorhome policy extends to include Third Party risks whilst any trailer is attached. From a Road Traffic point of view, a car being towed is treated as a trailer, so you will be covered for third party risks under your motorhome policy whilst the car is being towed. Cover for accidental damage to the car would fall under your private car insurance, whether being towed or not (and any other risk once the car is detached)." The letter from Saga states: "While the car is being towed behind your motorhome our policy would cover any accidental damage that is caused to the car. The liability caused by the car while it is being towed would be on your motorhome policy as it is that vehicle that would be driven at the time." The grey area would appear to be if the car becomes detached. Hence we feel it would be safer to have both vehicles with the same company. I have changed my photo now, it no longer shows my sister's Karmann Gypsy. The previous photos have been changed automatically, so that's why my comments in this respect no longer make any sense!

[w1ntersun]

Hi Rowan lee, Thank you thats exatly what I wanted to know Richard :-D

[w1ntersun]

Hi,

Took rowan lees advice and contacted Comfort. They quoted £395 fully com inc 12 months overseas and 12 months UK and European breakdown cover. And will cover my towing an A-frame and they have provisionally quoted for the car same terms ( Due in Nov ) £219

Thanks a lot

[Brian Kirby]

Great little firm, that.  They get all my insurance.  Quick, efficient and pleasant to deal with.  Oh, and the rates are good too!

[Rowan Lee]

Richard Glad you got fixed up. Yes, they are good to deal with and when its backed up by a company you've actually heard of (Norwich Union), it's even better. I'll sit back and await my introduction fee! Happy towing. Rowan

[olley]

Hi Quote under the Insurance Industry Code of Practice any policy with consumers can only be avoided if the circumstance which has not been disclosed is material to the accident giving rise to the claim. Unquote Which means to me that if you tell them your using an "A" frame they can't avoid the policy. Olley

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]olley - 2006-08-08 1:31 PM Hi Quote under the Insurance Industry Code of Practice any policy with consumers can only be avoided if the circumstance which has not been disclosed is material to the accident giving rise to the claim. Unquote Which means to me that if you tell them your using an "A" frame they can't avoid the policy. Olley[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

However, if you stand that on it's head it also means that if there is anything you omitted to disclose when you filled in the application, that could be held material to an accident, they could walk away from the policy! 

Always tell all, and make sure it is totally clear that you are towing a car, even what car, on a "A" frame, so that they cannot subsequently claim they thought you were just talking about a normal trailer!

[davebl]

Ive spend a vcoule of days looking in to this matter and I have now had a reply from Caravan Guard who insure our Motorhome and also a response from Priveledge who insure our Towcar. Caravan Guard have been very helpfull in trying to help with this matter. Caravan Guard say tell me the towing A frame is insured as a Trailer for a maximum of £1000. The car is insured for third party cover only. Details are on the cover docs. The tow car is not insured fully comp. Priviledge tell me the Tow car is insured third party whilst is its being towed, but not fully comp. Clearly this is major issue for many people as the tow car is not covered by either party for damage to itself. Beware when discussing this matter with insurers since the situation seems complex they may give an incorect answer to you all be it in good faith. Ive trawled the market as best I can to find insurance for either the Motorhome insurance to provide Fully Comprehensive cover for the Tow car whilst is is being towed or alternativly the tow car insurance to cover the car whilst being towed. The only satisfactory result I can find is from Comfort insurance to quote a Norwich Union Policy for the car which they say does cover the car fully comprehensive whilst it is being towed. By comparision for other quotes it is a little more expensive like for like but otherwise reasnobly acceptable cost wise. I can only reiterate what others have writen and I have discovered in that the motorhome policy does not cover a towcar fully comprehensive on its policy nor do most car insurance policies cover the tow car either. Id sugest all tow car users check both their policies as a matter of urgency so you can have peace of mind and propoer cover as you would expect. I am no insurance expert by the way, just a motorhomer wanting good insurance. I would also like to praise both Caravan Guard who have been extreemly helpfull and gone out of their way to help and advise, also to Comfort who have provided helpfull advice and a tow car policy that covers the requirments. Both have excelent policies for Motorhomes in my opinion. Dave

[Mel E]

See also the thread near this one from Vi: 'towing a car behind a motorhome insurance'. Also, be aware that, even if you tow a car on a trailer, you will need to get confirmation from your insurers that the comp cover is not suspended when being thus towed. Clearly, towing a car on a trailer is 'material information' and, in the event of an accident, the insurers could well void the policy. For example, if the trailer goes into uncontrollable snaking and flips over, writing off the car, the insurers could well claim that they only provided cover for the car on its own wheels!!!

[davebl]

I was told today that the contents of the trailer ie the car were NOT insured under the motorhome policy. I dont know what the car insurace says about this cover. Any one know for sure ? Dave

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]davebl - 2006-08-30 4:14 PM I was told today that the contents of the trailer ie the car were NOT insured under the motorhome policy. I dont know what the car insurace says about this cover. Any one know for sure ? Dave[/QUOTE]

I think the only source of a reliable answer will be your car insurer.  Best to get that in writing, as well.  But surely, you aren't intending to tow the car laden, are you?

[Mel E]

davebl, To (hopefully) clarify matters, I have copied below my posting from the other thread which (again hopefully) makes clear the difference between Third Party cover for a trailer and Comprehensive cover for the trailer and its contents: The standard insurance position is as follows: 1. When towing a trailer (which is what the car is supposed to become) the towing vehicle's insurance provides Third Party cover for the trailer. But Third Party ONLY - i.e., if the trailer becomes detached and damages something/someone else. 2. If the trailer is at all unusual (e.g., a glider trailer or a towed car) then it is wise to contact the towing vehicle's insurers and check the Third Party cover is OK. 3. Comprehensive cover for the trailer and its contents has to be purchased elsewhere. Thus for a glider trailer or caravan, this cover is provided as part of the glider or caravan insurance policy. You will thus need to check with the insurers of the towed car that they are happy to continue providing cover when it is under tow. 4. I used to tow a car (I gave up as it was far too much trouble and hassle) and had no problem getting comp cover confirmed from the underwriters. This was from two different insurers (we switched insurers at one renewal date). I also had no difficulty getting confirmation from the motorhome insurers (Comfort) that the car was covered on the motorhome insurance for Third Party cover. I'm afraid this is just one of the hassles of towing a car!