the general Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 why is there so much trouble with these are the brand new fiats to be trusted I am swaying to a peugeot van con. But am I right they come out same factory I have always had trannys (3 ) one got torched yobs ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Yes I have an EGR valve problem, but try googling 'transit EGR problem' and you will find they have just as many problems, The only reason it might come up on here more often would be because many more Fiat/Pugs are used for motorhomes p.s. you could also try googling 'sprinter egr problem' or 'master egr problem' and you will find all vans are aflicted with this problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 The reality is that on the Fiat 2.3 engine the fault is at least confined to the control solenoid and the throttle body. On the Ford, and therefore also Peugeot 2.2 engine the fault can be found in not only the throttle body but in a square, long tube that is part of the EGR piping and it also suffers from a build up of sludge in the inlet manifold the likes of which has to be seen to be believed! EGR is a messy, dirty process that we could all do without but the emissions cannot be controlled any further than Euro 3 without it on any vehicle whether they use additives in the exhaust system or not. To answer your question; No, the Fiat is no worse than anything else and is probably better than most. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 euroserv - 2013-07-01 5:02 PM The reality is that on the Fiat 2.3 engine the fault is at least confined to the control solenoid and the throttle body. On the Ford, and therefore also Peugeot 2.2 engine the fault can be found in not only the throttle body but in a square, long tube that is part of the EGR piping and it also suffers from a build up of sludge in the inlet manifold the likes of which has to be seen to be believed! EGR is a messy, dirty process that we could all do without but the emissions cannot be controlled any further than Euro 3 without it on any vehicle whether they use additives in the exhaust system or not. To answer your question; No, the Fiat is no worse than anything else and is probably better than most. Nick In the French 'Pug assist' garage they took off and 'cleaned' the rectangular tube, your post might explain why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawcara Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I am curious to know how much this is to fix, should it happen to break, which reading this post is likely! :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjxh56 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Bypass the EGR valve I had a very persistent EGR fault on a new Jag. The dealer tried changing it, swapping injectors, etc etc..This went on for the first 18 months of its life. In the end the Main dealer bypassed the EGR valve completely and it has been PERFECT ever since. It has been like this for a number of years and the emissions are better than they were with the valve in operation! I get excellent MPG, reliability, no smoke, its just 100% and has been for years. Dont ask me how they bypassed it, i am not a mechanic, but my friend had a look (he is a mechanic) to check what they had done and he said they 'piped around it'... whatever that means?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Errr. No. You can't bypass the throttle body (which is the main source of problems on the Fiat engines). The job can be done for about £550 at smaller garage labour rates; perhaps £100 more at a main agent. I would suspect that a bypass modification on other vehicles may have illuminated the EML which would now fail an MOT test. In terms of prevention; the only thing I can recommend with complete certainty and universal accuracy is that vehicles with EGR do not like to be left idling. Soot builds up at an alarming rate when there is no load on the engine. This soot sticks to the (perfectly normal) oil residue that exists in turbo pipes and manifolds and before you know it you have congestion. The soot is also corrosive, so a good use of the loud pedal from time to time will help to shift it and provide fresh oily lubrication where it is needed. Like I said before, EGR is bad news. Get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 By passing or blanking off EGR s can be a worthwhile option. Be aware that not all vehicles can have the EGR easily by-passed etc. On some as soon as the ECU gets signals that something has changed it throws up all sorts of fault lights. Re-programming the ECU is a solution but seems a bit inviolved to me. We are stuck with the damn things like them or not, no doubt they will soon become part of the EU MOT. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 hallii - 2013-07-02 11:39 AM By passing or blanking off EGR s can be a worthwhile option. Be aware that not all vehicles can have the EGR easily by-passed etc. On some as soon as the ECU gets signals that something has changed it throws up all sorts of fault lights. Re-programming the ECU is a solution but seems a bit inviolved to me. We are stuck with the damn things like them or not, no doubt they will soon become part of the EU MOT. H You're only stuck with one if you've chosen to buy a MH which has got one. Same idea if you've chosen to buy a MH that has one of those so-eminently nickable catalytic converters. There are utterly masses of motorhomes that don't suffer from such problems and which will be around for decades to come....but they are of course all pre-2006 (ish?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevina Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 euroserv - 2013-07-02 10:34 AM In terms of prevention; the only thing I can recommend with complete certainty and universal accuracy is that vehicles with EGR do not like to be left idling. Soot builds up at an alarming rate when there is no load on the engine. This soot sticks to the (perfectly normal) oil residue that exists in turbo pipes and manifolds and before you know it you have congestion. The soot is also corrosive, so a good use of the loud pedal from time to time will help to shift it and provide fresh oily lubrication where it is needed. Like I said before, EGR is bad news. Get used to it. Nick, would you therefore not recommend running the (2.3 X250) engine on tickover for, say, 30/40 minutes in order to charge the leisure batteries via a battery to battery charger. Doing this perhaps twice a week, only whilst skiing. I've done this in the past for up to an hour without noticing any problem, I do tend to raise the revs to about 1300 for a few minutes every 10 mins or so but am planning on adding a b2b charger rather than buying a generator. Generally the engine is getting a bit of a blowout up and down mountains every 3 days or so. When the (2007) van had done about 7000 miles Fiat changed the EGR valve under warranty, the egr solenoid still buzzes on tickover but has done so for 33000 miles now. It also has a "WOW" remap. Thanks in anticipation Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Kev, It's not a good idea, but since you also give the engine a proper workout every few days it should not cause much of a problem. If you can get an electric hook up and connect a modestly priced trickle charger to the battery(s) that would be much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevina Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Thanks for the reply Nick, I'm hoping that new slightly larger batteries and the b2b will mean we can arrive well enough charged that we can spend at least 3 days at skiing aires without having to run the engine whilst stationary. If it becomes necessary I'll probably risk it, I'm big enough to come back and admit it if I get a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airstream Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Hi, Look at http://www.evolutionchips.co.uk/Car_and_Van_Remapping_Search.asp Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Airstream - 2013-07-06 9:05 PM Hi, Look at http://www.evolutionchips.co.uk/Car_and_Van_Remapping_Search.asp Ray Thats interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnerontheroad Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 colin - 2013-07-06 9:24 PM Airstream - 2013-07-06 9:05 PM Hi, Look at http://www.evolutionchips.co.uk/Car_and_Van_Remapping_Search.asp Ray Thats interesting Before you do anything ask your insurance what the implications are it's a modification. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Airstream - 2013-07-06 9:05 PM Hi, Look at http://www.evolutionchips.co.uk/Car_and_Van_Remapping_Search.asp Ray Hi Having looked at their site in relation to the Fiat 2.3 engine (euro 4) they claim to be able to disable the DPF. Does a euro4 2.3 ducato have a DPF? I seem to remember Euroserv saying it hasn't at some point in the past. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 trevor166uk - 2013-07-08 9:15 AM Airstream - 2013-07-06 9:05 PM Hi, Look at http://www.evolutionchips.co.uk/Car_and_Van_Remapping_Search.asp Ray Hi Having looked at their site in relation to the Fiat 2.3 engine (euro 4) they claim to be able to disable the DPF. Does a euro4 2.3 ducato have a DPF? I seem to remember Euroserv saying it hasn't at some point in the past. Regards Mine doesn't, but the owners handbook does make reference to some versions having a DPF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 DPF was offered in the options list for Euro4 engines but I seriously doubt that many, if any at all were specified as such. If you bought a new vehicle from a German dealer this might be more of a possibility since they are much more obsessed with such things. Don't forget that if you have a later vehicle that is supposed to have a DPF and it goes for MOT test and the tester is clued up about these things; it will fail the test if the device has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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