Mel B Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Well, tuning modules to be precise, not chipping ... We have a 2012 Fiat Ducato 2.3 130 bhp van conversion and have found it isn't quite as nippy as our previous MH which was on the Ford Transit with the excellent 2.2 140 bhp engine. We've now done over 7,000 miles and are currently returning just under 30 mpg (based on my calculations, the best being 30.94 mpg, worst 27.64), the overall mpg interestingly matches exactly the van's computer figure 8-) ) - we have done some fast driving on motorways and a lot of travelling up/down twisty mountain and country roads otherwise I would expect to be getting 31+ mph. Hubby is considering getting a tuning module type attachment to improve it. The stats for the Ford and the Fiat are: Fiat: 2.3: 130 PS / 96 kW / 128 bhp / 320 Nm (236 lbf/ft) Ford: 2.2: 140 PS / 103 kW / 138 bhp / 350 Nm (258 lbf/ft) So not a massive difference, but noticeable and necessitating in more gear changes. I've had a quick 'Google' and there are claims that using a tuning module (rather than having the engine ECU remapped) could increase the output/power for the Fiat as follows: PS: 130 to 158 [+28] kW: 96 to 116 kW [+20] BHP: 128 to 156 [+28] Nm : 320 to 362 [+42] (236 lbf/ft to 267 lbf/ft [+31 lbf/ft]) Now if doing this gave only half of the claimed improvement then hubby would be more than happy! So: - has anyone looked into this and NOT gone ahead and if so why not - for those who have done this what have been your experiences, eg has it affected your insurance/warranty etc and is there anything else that should be considered. Thanks in advance. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Yes - I've looked at chipping, and not gone ahead. I did a lot of research on the Fiat forum and several others, and heard several horror stories about problems with drive train and clutch in particular; not able to cope for long with extra oomph. Also, problems with insurance companies, as it is clearly a performance enhancing modification. In the end I decided that if I want to go fast, I just get on one of my motorbikes for a blast. I never bought the motorhome for anything other than sedate and reliable chugging around Europe. It does that utterly brilliantly with the designed-in bhp/torque profile; I've no need to wreck the thing thing for the sake of a couple of extra bhp; at a silly cost for someone to tweak it. Work out how long any payback would be if you got an extra (say) couple of mpg's, with an upfront cost of (say) 250 quid. It's decades!! If hubby is having a mid-life speed crisis, allow him to have a Mazda MX5 or something for a couple of years; don't let him ruin the reliability, clutch or gearbox on your motorhome............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 BGD - 2013-07-01 10:15 PM If hubby is having a mid-life speed crisis, allow him to have a Mazda MX5 or something for a couple of years; don't let him ruin the reliability, clutch or gearbox on your motorhome............. If that was the case he can soon get his 'fix' by going out in our pocket rocket Smart car! :D No, it's just that it doesn't perform as well as the Ford did which he got used to that had the extra bit of oomph/torque which was useful for overtaking and holding the speed better when going up hills/mountains. We had hoped that by now, with over 7000 miles on it would have loosened up a bit, but nothing has really changed, perhaps it needs a bit more mileage on it! :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjxh56 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I had a spider chip in the last motorhome. It was the 3ltr 160 maxi and with the chip it performed great and the mpg was marginally better. I have since put the same chip in my car and the acceleration is better, mpg is about the same though? In the new motorhome i haven't got around to installing a chip as yet, but this thread has reminded me! I am not a mechanic but a friend that builds racing cars always remaps and chips his. (he does both for some reason?)... He has the DTUK chips in his vehicles but was very impressed with the Spider too. I believe you can also configure the DTUK for either performance or for economy (little switched on the unit) I have never had a chip damage any of the vehicles, nor has my friend.. Add them at your own risk i suppose is the message! You do have to tell the insurance company though, ,It didnt make any difference to my last premium, i just told them it had a chip to improve fuel economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I put 2 stroke in the works van a while back ;-)..................and it did make a difference................got it up to 80 >:-) ............on the flat..............and the acceleration was markedly improved...............but have stopped using it as I thought I'd get a ticket *-)...................which I did.............for doing 68 in a 70 >:-( So now I have a chip ;-) ...............on my shoulder >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Hi Mel At 7000 miles you are still running the van in, the engine will loosen up more yet. I wouldn't contemplate chipping until warranty has expired as it would give Fiat an excuse to invalidate it if anything happened. I would expect your mpg to improve as you get past 10,000 miles & continue to give a lesser improvement beyond that. Some PVC owners are reporting 34 / 35mpg with the Euro 4 engines, but they appear to be around 10k or more +. The Euro 5 engine is reported by Fiat to be 9% better fuel economy. Not sure if you have Euro 4 or 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 Hi flicka, not going to do anything imminently as will see how it performs on our month's trip to Ireland in August but just trying to gather some info to make an 'educated' decision. We have the Euro 5 variant and are probably running 'heavier' than when we had the Chausson, or at least at the same weight (we carried more 'just in case kit' in the Chausson *-) - the payload on the Accent is around 150kg less than the Chausson due to the extra weight of the vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Really surprised by this as our fiat 130 bhp goes really well, what weight are you when travelling.. I once had a ford 4x4 and I drove to sweden and back and vehicle would not go over 70...... Turned out when I brought it back to supplying garage that they had left the plastic accelerator thingy in place ( to stop over revving during delivery I guess) it should have been removed on PDI *-) I would just take it to a fiat garage and ask them why it seems gutless. You can buy the same engine direct from fiat in 3 levels of tuning these days 130/150/170 I believe.....so tuning modules probably OK. But again I'm very surprised by this thread,and as Flicka says ours at 12000 miles has loosened up nicely and now real nice to drive, especially the 6 speed box that was horrible from new...... I actually regretted not getting an auto ( now available in all engine variants) but happy now as van very car like to drive and no problem keeping up with car traffic and cruises at well over 70........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Hi Mel We have now done nearly 12000 miles in our van with a similar (albeit 2.2 PAS/Puma) engine. We did 5000 miles in April/May and the difference over that period was transformational both in performance and fuel economy especially towards the end of our trip. Due to illness we had to return from Eastern Hungary to Scotland very quickly (1750 miles in 3 days) so we know that our van can hack it. We did 600 miles one day and hit 160kph (satnav audited) on an unrestricted stretch of the A3 autobahn. Incidentally no recurrence of bump-stop problems despite some murderous potholes in Hungary. So I would hold off for another 5000 miles at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Mel, not quite. sue where peak power is generated, but I think that if you keep the revs over 2250 the power will be there for long hills. If you are below 2000 revs the speed will drop off on a long incline and you will be downshifting. Ps. Sat on ferry from Caen to Portsmouth looking forward to next trip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I can see where your coming from Mel, we have the 2.3 120ps, whilst it's a great improvement over some of the old Transits I've driven, I don't find it quite as good as the later Ford engine, hard to put a finger on why, but there's something not ,quite, as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Hi Mel, our Adria Compact with the same engine, has now done 20,000 + miles, and is, in my opinion, only just run in. I have noticed a gradual improvement in pulling power etc. ever since we bought it with 5000 miles on the clock. I should be patient and give it time and miles, before throwing money at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I was going to write a long and involved reply. Most of what I would say is covered though. So I thought I would just say that if the option to improve their performance by such significant amounts was desirable don't you think the manufacturers would be doing it as new? They don't because they tune the engines not only for performance but for reliability, and a fully laden motorhome driven hard is just as demanding on an engine as any white van delivery man. By the way, I just had my Transit's software updated, I noticed a slight drop in power afterwards, the dealers tell me that the new software REDUCES the fueling in order to improve reliabilty! The bonus is that it is doing another 4 mpg. (34 mpg) H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 But the stock Fiat 132 engine come 3 states of tune these days 130/150/170 and auto on all 3 + the 3 litre. so how can a decent tuning module be harmful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 JudgeMental - 2013-07-02 2:57 PM But the stock Fiat 132 engine come 3 states of tune these days 130/150/170 and auto on all 3 + the 3 litre. so how can a decent tuning module be harmful Are all items inside each of those engines, and all components in the associated clutch/gearbox/drive shafts/bearings etc all identical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 BGD - 2013-07-02 2:15 PM JudgeMental - 2013-07-02 2:57 PM But the stock Fiat 132 engine come 3 states of tune these days 130/150/170 and auto on all 3 + the 3 litre. so how can a decent tuning module be harmful Are all items inside each of those engines, and all components in the associated clutch/gearbox/drive shafts/bearings etc all identical? AFAIK, the 2.3 has factory options of 110/130/150, and the 150 engine definitely has mechanical differences to the 130 (variable vane turbo, for one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Engines in a higher state of tune might have heavier pistons, increased cooling (oil spray) different valve materials, different compression, turbo and/or boost, intercooler, radiator, the list goes on. I stick by my opinion, (for what it's worth) chip the engine and drive it hard and blow the engine (possibly). Chip the engine and drive it like a vicar and it won't make much difference, but then why do it in the first place if you don't use the power? Modern common rail engines tend towards being "on the edge" in terms of the state of tune. Any increase in power output can only be detrimental (in my humble opinion) so for me, I will not fit a chip, just keep it well mantained and in a good state of tune. Use good fuel (Shell for me) and fully synth oil, change the oil and filters as per the book and everything will be as good as it gets. By the way, I notice a worthwhile increase in power just by using Shell V-Power Nitro+, it costs more but it works, anyway I like the name! H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Engines in a higher state of tune might have heavier pistons, increased cooling (oil spray) different valve materials, different compression, turbo and/or boost, intercooler, radiator, the list goes on. I stick by my opinion, (for what it's worth) chip the engine and drive it hard and blow the engine (possibly). Chip the engine and drive it like a vicar and it won't make much difference, but then why do it in the first place if you don't use the power? Modern common rail engines tend towards being "on the edge" in terms of the state of tune. Any increase in power output can only be detrimental (in my humble opinion) so for me, I will not fit a chip, just keep it well mantained and in a good state of tune. Use good fuel (Shell for me) and fully synth oil, change the oil and filters as per the book and everything will be as good as it gets. By the way, I notice a worthwhile increase in power just by using Shell V-Power Nitro+, it costs more but it works, anyway I like the name! H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 BGD - 2013-07-02 2:15 PM JudgeMental - 2013-07-02 2:57 PM But the stock Fiat 132 engine come 3 states of tune these days 130/150/170 and auto on all 3 + the 3 litre. so how can a decent tuning module be harmful Are all items inside each of those engines, and all components in the associated clutch/gearbox/drive shafts/bearings etc all identical? Dont know to be honest but cant be that much in it I would think. The difference between the 3 is approx £1000 + a hit. I was wrong above, 2.3 is 110/130/150 and 3 litre at 177. auto not available on 110 Nick, euroserve would probably have a better idea...But Fiat have had a reputation for strong engines for decades..bodywork another matter! but personally I would not do it as more than happy with performance, and certainly not till run in properly and/or out of warranty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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