rupert123 Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 limerick - 2013-07-08 3:45 PM The van was released from Fiat in 11/2007 and warranty started 3/3/2010 so it looks like the van left the factory before the mod's were done and is also out of warranty I am struggling with this one. What make of van is it, have never heard of one hanging around like this, something wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 limerick - 2013-07-08 4:50 PM I changed the tyres after getting the van as they were dated 07. That should have set alarm bells ringing, car manufacturers work on a "just in time" basis for delivery from suppliers so I would expect tyres to be manufacturer very close to the time the van went down the assembly line. Sounds like it was sitting on the dealers forecourt for a couple years when new & not sold until March 2010. If you brought from the original supplying dealer he would have known and hopefully adjusted the price to take account of the true age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIFFO Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Limerick.......bought a 2010 a class on a ducato manufactured in 2008 Discovered the dreaded shudder problem in the first week. Got in touch with the dealer who in turn put in contact directly with fiat. Van was brought to a fiat dealer in Westmeath ( only appointed two months previously). They drove the van said I had a problem and reported back to fiat who okd the modificationsand did the job to my satisfaction. Granted it took a bit longer than stated but was happy to leave it longer so a rush job wasn't done. To date no problems at 21000 miles and it seems. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Must be an Irish thing they like them looking pretty on forecourt saves the bother of having to sell them. :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limerick Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-07-08 5:37 PM I am struggling with this one. What make of van is it, have never heard of one hanging around like this, something wrong here. It's a Dethleffs Advantage T6501 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 This Juddergate business will be around for some time to come and I feel for anyone who has been lumbered with one, my only way of dealing with it would be to bite the bullet, get rid, put it down to a lousy experience and move on. Don't even consider buying an X250 unless it is very late 09 and 10 reg onwards and even then give it a thorough road test on the steepest hill you can find in reverse. This is applicable to the 2.3. I have owned a 3ltr which was trouble free but very thirsty and I now own a late model 2.3 which is trouble free, a pleasure to drive and does very well fuel consumption wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 limerick - 2013-07-08 9:32 PM rupert123 - 2013-07-08 5:37 PM I am struggling with this one. What make of van is it, have never heard of one hanging around like this, something wrong here. It's a Dethleffs Advantage T6501 That explains a bit. Because the Germans make such high volumes the dealers have them for sale on forecourts, as Eddie is always pointing out, however they can hang around a bit. Yours seems to have hung around longer than most, however Fiat will probably fix the box FOC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limerick Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 rolandrat - 2013-07-09 8:19 AM This Juddergate business will be around for some time to come and I feel for anyone who has been lumbered with one, my only way of dealing with it would be to bite the bullet, get rid, put it down to a lousy experience and move on. Don't even consider buying an X250 unless it is very late 09 and 10 reg onwards and even then give it a thorough road test on the steepest hill you can find in reverse. This is applicable to the 2.3. I have owned a 3ltr which was trouble free but very thirsty and I now own a late model 2.3 which is trouble free, a pleasure to drive and does very well fuel consumption wise. Roland I DID buy a 2010 reg and at the moment I can't afford to bite the bullet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Although as you say your motorhome is a 10 reg and you would have thought you were reasonably safe from the horrors of Juddergate it just goes to show how important it is to do a thorough road test on a steep hill before you sign on the dotted line. I am probably a salesmans worse nightmare when it comes to doing a deal but when you have experienced being taken for a ride you only let it happen once. A salesman is only interested in one thing, "his commission". Even so there are still very good dealerships out there and it's always best to stick with them and if you have any after sale issues a good one will do everything they can to make things right. I hope you get your concern resolved, good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 limerick - 2013-07-09 11:05 AM rolandrat - 2013-07-09 8:19 AM This Juddergate business will be around for some time to come and I feel for anyone who has been lumbered with one, my only way of dealing with it would be to bite the bullet, get rid, put it down to a lousy experience and move on. Don't even consider buying an X250 unless it is very late 09 and 10 reg onwards and even then give it a thorough road test on the steepest hill you can find in reverse. This is applicable to the 2.3. I have owned a 3ltr which was trouble free but very thirsty and I now own a late model 2.3 which is trouble free, a pleasure to drive and does very well fuel consumption wise. Roland I DID buy a 2010 reg and at the moment I can't afford to bite the bullet I would ignore this over the top reaction by Roland, typical of the stuff that was around a couple of years ago. Personally had two pre 09 x250, both completely trouble free and good to drive. In your case just contact Fiat, as has been advised, when the mods are done it will be fine. The reverse it up a steep hill bit can apply to any van but how often do you do this, probably never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-07-09 5:41 PM limerick - 2013-07-09 11:05 AM rolandrat - 2013-07-09 8:19 AM This Juddergate business will be around for some time to come and I feel for anyone who has been lumbered with one, my only way of dealing with it would be to bite the bullet, get rid, put it down to a lousy experience and move on. Don't even consider buying an X250 unless it is very late 09 and 10 reg onwards and even then give it a thorough road test on the steepest hill you can find in reverse. This is applicable to the 2.3. I have owned a 3ltr which was trouble free but very thirsty and I now own a late model 2.3 which is trouble free, a pleasure to drive and does very well fuel consumption wise. The reverse it up a steep hill bit can apply to any van but how often do you do this, probably never. Or It could be every time you get back home and have to park by your house (as I do). or when you reverse up onto leveling blocks. My 2012 X250 does it with ease (although I have only had it a year,so hope the clutch holds out). But I wouldn't have touched a 2007/8 one with a bargepole. Buyer Beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limerick Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-07-09 5:41 PM limerick - 2013-07-09 11:05 AM rolandrat - 2013-07-09 8:19 AM This Juddergate business will be around for some time to come and I feel for anyone who has been lumbered with one, my only way of dealing with it would be to bite the bullet, get rid, put it down to a lousy experience and move on. Don't even consider buying an X250 unless it is very late 09 and 10 reg onwards and even then give it a thorough road test on the steepest hill you can find in reverse. This is applicable to the 2.3. I have owned a 3ltr which was trouble free but very thirsty and I now own a late model 2.3 which is trouble free, a pleasure to drive and does very well fuel consumption wise. Roland I DID buy a 2010 reg and at the moment I can't afford to bite the bullet I would ignore this over the top reaction by Roland, typical of the stuff that was around a couple of years ago. Personally had two pre 09 x250, both completely trouble free and good to drive. In your case just contact Fiat, as has been advised, when the mods are done it will be fine. The reverse it up a steep hill bit can apply to any van but how often do you do this, probably never. Fiat don't want to know about it they say it's out of Warranty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 As you only brought it 2 months ago from a dealer, assuming Irish law is similar to English law your contract is with the supplying dealer and he should arrange to get it fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-07-09 5:41 PM limerick - 2013-07-09 11:05 AM rolandrat - 2013-07-09 8:19 AM This Juddergate business will be around for some time to come and I feel for anyone who has been lumbered with one, my only way of dealing with it would be to bite the bullet, get rid, put it down to a lousy experience and move on. Don't even consider buying an X250 unless it is very late 09 and 10 reg onwards and even then give it a thorough road test on the steepest hill you can find in reverse. This is applicable to the 2.3. I have owned a 3ltr which was trouble free but very thirsty and I now own a late model 2.3 which is trouble free, a pleasure to drive and does very well fuel consumption wise. Roland I DID buy a 2010 reg and at the moment I can't afford to bite the bullet I would ignore this over the top reaction by Roland, typical of the stuff that was around a couple of years ago. Personally had two pre 09 x250, both completely trouble free and good to drive. In your case just contact Fiat, as has been advised, when the mods are done it will be fine. The reverse it up a steep hill bit can apply to any van but how often do you do this, probably never. I reverse up a steep hill every time I go out (I have to, I live on one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Henry, good luck to you, unfortunately there are owners out there who have had problems and no doubt if they had been for warned they might not have committed a large amount of their hard earned dosh to a load of trouble. You might think that I have over reacted with my view of the juddergate situation, I've no problem with that but to do a simple reversing manoeuvre on a steep hill to satisfy yourself that the transmission is ok would seem sound advice. Not long ago a guy was parked next to me with his x250 2.3 when I pointed out that he had a pool of oil underneath, on getting down to investigate it had come out of his gearbox that had just had a judder modification done. I could go on about others who have had bad experiences but as you have said, over reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 rolandrat - 2013-07-09 8:14 PM Henry, good luck to you, unfortunately there are owners out there who have had problems and no doubt if they had been for warned they might not have committed a large amount of their hard earned dosh to a load of trouble. You might think that I have over reacted with my view of the juddergate situation, I've no problem with that but to do a simple reversing manoeuvre on a steep hill to satisfy yourself that the transmission is ok would seem sound advice. Not long ago a guy was parked next to me with his x250 2.3 when I pointed out that he had a pool of oil underneath, on getting down to investigate it had come out of his gearbox that had just had a judder modification done. I could go on about others who have had bad experiences but as you have said, over reaction. Roland I really do not want to get into this again but it is an over reaction. Their have been thousands of these vans sold and a few have had a bad experience, so what, go on to any car/van forum on the internet and they are all full of similar tales of various problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 rolandrat - 2013-07-09 8:14 PM Henry, good luck to you, unfortunately there are owners out there who have had problems and no doubt if they had been for warned they might not have committed a large amount of their hard earned dosh to a load of trouble. You might think that I have over reacted with my view of the juddergate situation, I've no problem with that but to do a simple reversing manoeuvre on a steep hill to satisfy yourself that the transmission is ok would seem sound advice. Not long ago a guy was parked next to me with his x250 2.3 when I pointed out that he had a pool of oil underneath, on getting down to investigate it had come out of his gearbox that had just had a judder modification done. I could go on about others who have had bad experiences but as you have said, over reaction. Henry's attitude to this problem has always been ' lalalala hands over ears, I'm not listening' he even thought that Andy Stothert's problem van was a 'one off'. it wasn't. We all knew that 'problem' vans would still be 'surfacing' to bite some poor sod in the bum, for years to come, Don't buy a 2nd hand X250 that is more than 4 years old, and to be really safe make that 3 years old. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limerick Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 Rayjsj - 2013-07-09 9:12 PM We all knew that 'problem' vans would still be 'surfacing' to bite some poor sod in the bum, for years to come, Don't buy a 2nd hand X250 that is more than 4 years old, and to be really safe make that 3 years old. Ray Ray I've got some sore bum today (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 On this rare occasion I agree with Henry, hundreds of thousands X250's have been made and very few of them have the problem. Yes reverse gear is high and it does cause problems with some vans but only some. In five years of traveling around in by X250 I've yet to meet anyone who has had a problem, I'm not aware of any Hymer's having any problems (they are the largest European manufacturer) no mention of it within the Hymer Club & Hymer dealers I've spoken to not aware of problems (I have met one club member with problems on a 3 Lt). When I have asked other X250 owners on Aires & sites not found one with the problem most are unaware of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-07-09 10:35 PM On this rare occasion I agree with Henry, hundreds of thousands X250's have been made and very few of them have the problem. Yes reverse gear is high and it does cause problems with some vans but only some. In five years of traveling around in by X250 I've yet to meet anyone who has had a problem, I'm not aware of any Hymer's having any problems (they are the largest European manufacturer) no mention of it within the Hymer Club & Hymer dealers I've spoken to not aware of problems (I have met one club member with problems on a 3 Lt). When I have asked other X250 owners on Aires & sites not found one with the problem most are unaware of it. At last, someone with a common sense attitude to this. I was in the motor trade for to long to take much notice of the over reaction by amateurs to the odd problem with vehicles. Even major recalls on cars, and the Fiat reverse thing was never a major, or even minor one, are usually for a relatively small number of vehicles sold. Only on forums does this sort of row occur, in real life no one takes any notice. OK before anyone starts the odd person who has a problem takes notice but it is dealt with by the maker in the end. I would point out the original thread here was about clutch problem and the question was asked if it could relate to the reverse gear bit, no one seems to know if in fact it did. The original poster states Fiat do not want to know, personally I would not accept that and continue to pursue, perhaps, as has been suggested through the dealer. However as I said it may not be the gearbox at all in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limerick Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 rupert123 - 2013-07-10 10:34 AM I would not accept that and continue to pursue, perhaps, as has been suggested through the dealer. However as I said it may not be the gearbox at all in this case. Spoke to the dealer last night and he will get back to me after he talks to Fiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Ray, spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 AliB - 2013-07-08 10:25 AM 2008 2.3L 6 speed on a Maxi Chassis. Shortly after buying the vehicle I noticed judder in reverse. Contacted Fiat directly (as Lowdhams would have nothing to do with it). Fiat arranged for me to take the vehicle to North East Truck and Van, a Fiat dealer in York. Mod 1 - replacement engine mounts, Mod 2 lower reverse gear ratio new clutch plates. Problem solved As I understand it, they could not lower the reverse gear ratio in the original gearbox because that would necessitate a larger gear wheel that would not fit into the casing. (Later models had a new gearbox casing to accommodate the larger gearwheel) Those who got the lower reverse gear fitted retrospectively actually got a lower ratio final drive, which lowered the ratio of all the gears, not just reverse. It would also have been fitted by a local garage who would be unlikely to have the equipment or expertise to fit it to original factory standards. This is one of the reasons I chose not to bother asking for any of the 'fixes' for my 2008 manufactured X2/50 Reverse gear is higher than would be ideal, but it s not bad. Overall I am delighted with my X2/50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 rolandrat - 2013-07-10 4:56 PM Ray, spot on. Amateur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limerick Posted July 13, 2013 Author Share Posted July 13, 2013 Went to my Fiat dealer last Tuesday and they said there was a problem with reverse.Then on Friday was asked by the dealer to go to another Fiat garage he uses for a second opinion and they confirmed the judder.The dealer gave the go ahead straight away to get the mod's done.So waiting for the garage to get in the parts and hopefully get it sorted.The garage has done two or three mod's already for the judder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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