The difference in Ducato's

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Hi All

 

When I bought my current vehicle I had the choice of buying the new X250, or my current JTD 2.8 Ducato.

 

The reason that I did not buy a X250 was the now infamous leaking scuttle, I could not believe that any Motor manufacturer could build a brand new model vehicle and have the same fault as there previous model and it still took Fiat, a good length of time to admit there was a fault with the scuttle, after many protests of owners of the Ducato 15, and then Juddergate this made me very pleased I bought my Lunar.

 

I have read by numerous members on this and other forums that the X250 is a far superior vehicle to drive than my model Ducato, I would like to know How.

 

My Ducato has I believe the lower troublefree 5th gear and has also the new scuttle, so no wet engines.

 

I find my driving seat is very comfortable and i never feel tired or have aches and pains after a lenghy drive, I find I have plenty of power and the vehicle pulls up the steepest of hills with no effort, I have not even thought about remapping as i don't feel the vehicle needs it , Yes I would love a few more miles to the gallon I think we all would, but what can you expect with a brick wall on the roof. My last long run to the peterboro show I recorded 27 mpg and I have still only 10,000 miles on the clock.

 

So someone please tell me how the X250 is a better driver.

 

Terry

[Mel B]

It depends what is meant by a 'better drive'.

 

We had the previous 2 incarnations of Fiat, then 2 incarnations of Ford, and now the latest Fiat X250.

 

The engine of the latest Ford (Mk 7) is much better, in our opinion, as it pulled up hills better and the cruise control was more 'consistent'. However the X250 gives a much smoother ride, there is a lot less noise and it is more car like to actually drive, the seats are very comfortable and hubby doesn't get hip ache like he used to occasionally in the Ford.

[timndelia]

We had the 2.8 and now have the X250 130. We were always very pleased with the 2.8 but did have it chipped so that the 'gap' between 4th and 5th gears was easier to manage and we weren't continually changing down to 4th up long or steep hills.

 

We have had the X250 for 18 months now. At first I was a little unhappy with it's performance (just tight) but after 5,000 miles it loosened up nicely and now at 18,000 drives and pulls very well. Very rarely do I change down from 6th going up hills (been to Norway and the Alps in it, so covered a lot of mountains). Compared to the 2.8 the driving is much more car like and relaxing, very little noise and now excellent performance with genuine 30 mpg.

 

As far as the scuttle is concerned one side of ours was badly fitted to the windscreen. Took it to our Fiat dealer who replaced it under warranty and fitted it perfectly. No water getting into the engine compartment at all. It appears that there are quite a few examples of badly fitted scuttles which, I believe, is the only cause of water getting through now with thew X250.

 

So all in all a much better overall driving experience than the old 2.8, which to be honest I would not have expected before we changed.

 

 

 

[lennyhb]

The X250 is a far nicer drive, quite smooth & car like. Handles really well especially with the wide track camper chassis. The cab is larger & roomier big deep windscreen one reason decided not to buy an A Class. No draughty doors like the old model. Never had and scuttle problems with ours, the only thing that has gone wrong in 5 years is a broken plastic knob on the fascia vent (replaced under warranty). Can't comment on the seats never driven a Motorhome with standard Fiat seats. Fuel consumption is not really relevant with the cost of a Motorhome and the low mileage but if you want to know I get between 22 to 30 mpg depending how I drive and wind conditions.

[Rayjsj]

Taz,

I, like you, didn't buy the 'new' 2007 X/250 cabbed vans,because of all of the 'Water in Scuttle, Reversing judder, wrecked gearbox problems' instead I bought a 2005 Autocruise, which was very satisfactory ( the last of the 'line' usually are). Then last October we saw a van we Wanted, unfortunately it was/is on an X/250 chassis (as most are) I had a test drive, reversed up a steep slope, and it was fine, in fact with the 150bhp 2.3 it spun the wheels rather than judder. I am quite happy with it, the heater works better than the old cab, (tested in snow last winter), it is air conditioned (our old cab wasn't), the Scuttle still gets blocked too easily, (a piece of flexible net curtain wire,clears the two small drain pipes) the large one needs unblocking too,occasionally (naff design !) Overall we find the cab more comfortable than the previous design, more 'elbow' room, All the 'Euro 5' stuff doesn't impress me in the slightest, ie, if ANY 'gizmo' doesn't contribute to making the vehicle MORE reliable, and less likely to let down the owner, then it shouldn't be fitted to the vehicle (in My opinion, and after all it's me that bought it, NOT the government or the EU). So, is the Mercedes or the Renault better ?? don't know haven't tried them, AND i didn't get much of a choice. Autotrail (and many others) don't convert onto another brand of chassis. Ray

[pepe63xnotuse]

I don't know what the new ones are like but our '08 Renault,feels less "car like" to drive than our previous X250 Pug(with heavier,"slower" steering).and I dare say compared to the X250,some would consider it quite crude feeling..

(..and ergonomically, I think it was designed for folk with longer arms than I possess...(lol) )

 

But it does feel more stable and "planted" when at motorway speeds....

(..although being the 150hp,4mtr wheel base,I'm not really comparing like for like, as our X250 was only an 100hp,swb tiddler!).

 

A couple of things that I never got used to on our X250,were:

a) The blind spot caused by the wide screen(A) pillars..all to easy to "lose" a car behind 'em, when approaching a roundabout(..just how bad must they be if side mounted,concertina type blinds are fitted?)

and

b) The handbrake location,buried as it is(was?), down on the outside of the seat(..seemingly almost in the footwell!?).Our drop down, in-board handbrake is far easier to use...even though it drops down, somehow there's still no ridiculous, reaching around and fumbling about for it..and then having to switch hands, so that you can select second gear, like there was with the Peugeot.:-S )

 

And similar to Ray's,the drain outlet on ours needed a good clean/blast through on a regular basis(..leaves and pine needles would block ours from the bottom up...and they would collect in a big clump behind the inner wheel arch liner...)

[lennyhb]

Been driving our X250 for five years never even noticed a blind spot at the front and we have Remis blinds, probably depends on the type of seat (ours has ISRI seats) your size and seat set up.

 

The handbrake is a bit low but not low enough to cause a problem certainly higher than on a Trannie.

[pepe63xnotuse]

I am only about 5' 9"...and I suppose quite short in the leg...

 

(...I'm painting a crackin' picture for the ladies now,aren't I... (lol) )

 

..so I dare say I had the seat stuffed further forwards than some...okay...further forwards than MOST! (lol)

[colin]

lennyhb - 2013-07-11 8:02 PM

 

Been driving our X250 for five years never even noticed a blind spot at the front

 

You will when you hit a car coming around a roundabout :-S

 

I don't normally notice much of a blind spot, but did once on a roundabout, it was quite strange, as I approached the roundabout I glimpsed a car also approaching to my right, it then 'disappeared' with me wondering "where's that car gone?" for it to suddenly appear right in front of me, it could have been very nasty, I think there may have been a slope involved as well.

[AliB]

Rayjsj - 2013-07-11 3:50 PM

 

All the 'Euro 5' stuff doesn't impress me in the slightest, ie, if ANY 'gizmo' doesn't contribute to making the vehicle MORE reliable, and less likely to let down the owner, then it shouldn't be fitted to the vehicle (in My opinion, and after all it's me that bought it, NOT the government or the EU).. Ray

 

Sounds like we have missed the point about the purpose of Engine Control Systems, Catalytic converters and Diesel Particle Filters.

 

Their main function is to reduce the amount of pollution your vehicle emits into the air we all breathe.

 

If we do not embrace this new technology we are in danger of putting money before health.

 

Just search the web to read more about air pollution: here are a couple of extracts to stimulate your thinking.

 

Air pollution from vehicles is now second only to smoking as a killer in the UK, yet as a nation we are failing to meet targets on reducing emissions. (BBC Bang Goes the Theory April 2013).

 

Dr Ian Mudway, a lecturer in respiratory toxicology with the environmental research group at King's College London university, has spent several years walking the routes that children take to school in the London Borough of Tower Hamlets, measuring the pollutants in the air they breathe and determining their impacts on their respiratory health. He is shocked at the levels of pollutants these children are exposed to on a daily basis and fears for the permanent damage being done by to their lungs by the ultra-fine particles and gases emitted by diesel engines. (The Guardian March 2013)

 

[Rayjsj]

AliB - 2013-07-12 10:16 AM

 

Rayjsj - 2013-07-11 3:50 PM

 

All the 'Euro 5' stuff doesn't impress me in the slightest, ie, if ANY 'gizmo' doesn't contribute to making the vehicle MORE reliable, and less likely to let down the owner, then it shouldn't be fitted to the vehicle (in My opinion, and after all it's me that bought it, NOT the government or the EU).. Ray

 

Sounds like we have missed the point about the purpose of Engine Control Systems, Catalytic converters and Diesel Particle Filters.

 

Their main function is to reduce the amount of pollution your vehicle emits into the air we all breathe.

 

If we do not embrace this new technology we are in danger of putting money before health.

 

Just search the web to read more about air pollution: here are a couple of extracts to stimulate your thinking.

 

Air pollution from vehicles is now second only to smoking as a killer in the UK, yet as a nation we are failing to meet targets on reducing emissions. (BBC Bang Goes the Theory April 2013).

 

Dr Ian Mudway, a lecturer in respiratory toxicology with the environmental research group at King's College London university, has spent several years walking the routes that children take to school in the London Borough of Tower Hamlets, measuring the pollutants in the air they breathe and determining their impacts on their respiratory health. He is shocked at the levels of pollutants these children are exposed to on a daily basis and fears for the permanent damage being done by to their lungs by the ultra-fine particles and gases emitted by diesel engines. (The Guardian March 2013)

 

 

 

Until you go to India and China and get them to close all of their Coal fired power stations, you are wasting your time AND money.

I want a RELIABLE means of transportation, not one that breaks down because of sensors that have nothing at all to do with the actual running of the engine.

IF I had the Money (lottery winner ??) I would have a motorhome built with NO ECU, NO DPF, etc.,etc., ie all in a 'Faraday Cage' to protect the basic electronics. with an Ultra reliable large diesel engine from the 1970's (a rebuilt original Gardener or Rolls Royce diesel). all designed to last for at least 50 years, all A4 stainless bolts,screws and fittings, unlike cars and trucks produced today which are considered 'disposable' after 5 to 10 years. That is the threat, we are not producing 'customer durables' to be durable any more. And are using up resources. Ray

 

 

 

ps I have no wish to drive anywhere near 'Tower Hamlets' or any city, this is a 'Pleasure Vehicle' driving in or near urban centres is NOT a pleasure.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Ah!..the old "...but look what China's chuckin out...".." argument..(lol)

 

Reliability issues aside,I think the point is, when we/our kids,/our grandkids walk down the street we/they aren't directly breathing in the stuff belching out of Chinese Power Stations... we/they are breathing in the stuff chuffed out by OUR vehicles.... ;-)

 

Also Ray, having read your desire to return to 1970s motor vehicle technologies, can i ask where you buy your "rose tinted specs" from....? (lol)

[Rayjsj]

pepe63 - 2013-07-12 1:24 PM

 

Also Ray, having read your desire to return to 1970s motor vehicle technologies, can i ask where you buy your "rose tinted specs" from....? (lol)

 

 

 

 

I still have the ones I wore when doing my engineering apprenticeship at Scammell lorries, Watford.

they have lasted very well. (they knew how to build 'Rose tinted spectacles' back then.) Ray

[mikebeaches]

We had a Rapido on the previous Fiat Ducato cab, and now for the last two-and-a-half years we've had a Fiat X250 (130)-based Chausson, which we bought new.

 

They are as different as chalk and cheese in my opinion. The extra gear - 6 instead of 5 - is a good improvement. Perhaps for me, however, it is the reassurance of vastly improved brakes on the X250 - they feel so much more sure-footed and as others have said car-like. I had all the brakes replaced on the old van, but they were still very hard work and not really up to modern standards in my opinion.

 

Cruise control as standard is a valuable bonus. We had cab A/C on the previous van, but nonetheless it seems to be more even effective in the new van.

 

Like the cabin of the X250 too. (lol)

 

No problems with reverse judder or scuttle leaks.

 

Mike