Mike88 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Another disturbing aspect is that the original poster wants to run his TV while on the move for the benefit of those in the back. Is that legal and are there belted seats? The noise issue is disturbing; I have been next to someone on an Aire who continually ran their van and the noise and exhaust fumes were unbearable. I moved so as not to create an international incident. However perhaps the engine will be run while static at an isolated wildcamping spot in which case that is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Mike88 - 2013-07-12 6:19 PM Another disturbing aspect is that the original poster wants to run his TV while on the move for the benefit of those in the back. Is that legal and are there belted seats? The noise issue is disturbing; I have been next to someone on an Aire who continually ran their van and the noise and exhaust fumes were unbearable. I moved so as not to create an international incident. However perhaps the engine will be run while static at an isolated wildcamping spot in which case that is fine. I can confirm that there are indeed 2 rear travel seats with 3-point belts and there is no illegality at all in the rear passengers watching TV whilst the vehicle is being driven SO LONG AS the driver also doesn't watch it. The fact that the 12v electrics go off in the rear is actually very annoying - I gave the example about using the loo, not a problem you may think ... wait until you've forgotten to do it half a dozen times and are in the loo wanting to flush it and wash your hands ... you then have to come out of the loo and use your 'dirty' hands to turn the panel on (unless of course your t'other half is in the van at the time to do it for you!) - to use the water system first the panel has to be turned on and you then wait a couple of seconds for the panel to light up, then you can press the pump button. Similarly if you want to fill the kettle and haven't turned the pump on ... there you are with the kettle in one hand and the other on the tap lever and ... nowt! Not a problem you may think ... but this actually DOES cause an issue as when you try to use the tap without the pump on sometimes the tap splutters ... and can continue to do it even when you have turned the pump on and can be a pain to sort out - a real nuisance. One of the most inconvenient aspects is that NONE of the rear habitation lights work at all until you have turned the panel on, not such a problem during the day but if you've driven at night and then go into the rear you've somehow turn them on - first you have to grapple around for the panel, then find the 'on' button (more a slight pad than a button!) for it and press it, followed by the pad on the panel for the lights, then the separate light switch itself! As the panel is smooth, with just 'pad' points for the various functions finding the right one isn't easy and you have to remember where it is on the panel ... in reality you actually need a light to be able to turn on the lights! *-) I'm going to use my 'stuck a blob' on the switch pads trick that I did in our previous van to find the toilet flush switch 'pad' which had the same 'problem'! :-S You also can't charge any 12v items by plugging them into the rear sockets whilst on the move - we have a sat nav and a rear view camera which use the two 12v cab sockets, so being able to occasionally use the back one to charge a phone up whilst on the move would be beneficial too. For those of you who have the 12v live at all times count yourselves very lucky ... once you've had it (as we did in other vans) to then NOT have it really is very, very, VERY annoying and inconvenient! >:-( To see just how inconvenient it is, try turning your 12v system off every time you start your engine then you'll understand! :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Keithl - 2013-07-12 7:10 AM Hi Heyloft, You can download wiring diagrams from The Sargent website... Link They only go to 2010 but I would imagine not too many things should have changed between 2010 and your 'van at 2011. Unfortunately they don't seem to go into enough detail on charging relays and habitation isolation relays for what you want so I think you may have to speak to someone there directly. Keith. Keith, thanks for the link, I actually had a good shuftie last night for about half an hour trying in vain to find the unit (it's a EC462), diagrams, technical info .... basically anything, to see if there was mention of a relay etc but there isn't anything, all Sargents site gives is a link to a general pdf showing the buttons and what they do, and a little bit of other info, the best I could come up with elswhere is a picture of it! http://www.sargentltd.co.uk/EC450%20System%20Instructions%20Issue%202.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyloft Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 Mine's an EC400.... The wiring schematic from Sargent's isn't detailed enough to resolve this. Maybe they have other firmware for the devices for export markets that would solve the problem, rather than it being a physical relay fix. Rgds Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I don't understand this business of having to turn on the 12v to operate lights and pump. When we go away I just switch on the 12v and leave it on until we return home.... is there something wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 If the 12v system does not work when engine running,surley that means the Fridge will not be on when driving??Or does it switch to engine battery? ( I shall look to-morrow, to see if Fridge light is on when engine is on) I know our 12v goes off when the engine is running as the step retracts, and as Mel says you have to switch the pump on (which you can,t do), for the loo flush.We always pull over and turn engine off,(to use loo) Good job OH knows about these things, but I must satisfy my curiousity about the Fridge , now that I have got the grey cells working!! PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Muswell - 2013-07-12 10:36 PM I don't understand this business of having to turn on the 12v to operate lights and pump. When we go away I just switch on the 12v and leave it on until we return home.... is there something wrong with that? No, the OP is having 'problems' because his system is a legacy from caravan manufacture. It's usually something found where British caravan manufacturers have extended into motorhome territory, but still build them like caravans. And regarding the fridge - this will ordinarily be switched by relay when the engine is started and will take it's 12v supply from the engine battery only (while ever the engine is running) - this is usually a separate circuit from the 12v switching control panel issues that the OP describes so no need to worry about the fridge, it should just get on with things irrespective of whether 12v control panel is switched on or off. Re the OP's problem, I haven't really though this through as I can't be bothered but it should be possible with a bit of a crafty switching (changeover) relay to energise 12v circuits in the rear to run off the engine battery whilst it's running allowing a normal manual switch back to leisure battery power when camped. Use the 30 as the out and 87 / 87a as ins. As I say, it's a lazy answer, feel free to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Mel B - 2013-07-12 7:22 PM For those of you who have the 12v live at all times count yourselves very lucky ... once you've had it (as we did in other vans) to then NOT have it really is very, very, VERY annoying and inconvenient! >:-( To see just how inconvenient it is, try turning your 12v system off every time you start your engine then you'll understand! :-| Our hab' 12v would stay "live" all the time IF we left it switched on but as I posted earlier,I'm in the habit of always switching it off when travelling......AND back ON again if it's needed when we stop. ;-) So come on now..."count yourselves very lucky" ?...really?..just how hard is it to just press a switch on a control panel (lol) As for "fumbling" about in the dark, doesn't the cab's interior light help?..and even if it doesn't, you're hardly going to get lost ..and when turning on the panel (after endless "fumbling") find yourself over in the east wing.. (lol) Mel..maybe there's something on here that may help?... (lol) http://www.flashdoguk.co.uk/# (..although, if this lack of lights had've been that much of an issue for me,the very least I would've done would've been to temporarily stick up a small, battery powered LED touch light...before then looking at having the wiring modified ) The lack of ANY 12v sockets in the rear of our van("live" or otherwise) , was something I sorted quite easily by wiring in "cigar lighter" socket, just fed(fused) from the leisure battery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Morning all, We have an Adria twin, When the engine is started with the hab swich on the lights go out in hab area and the step retracts but the toilet still flushes. Upon departure we switch on the power and leave it on until we return . norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 pepe63 - 2013-07-13 11:54 AM Mel B - 2013-07-12 7:22 PM For those of you who have the 12v live at all times count yourselves very lucky ... once you've had it (as we did in other vans) to then NOT have it really is very, very, VERY annoying and inconvenient! >:-( To see just how inconvenient it is, try turning your 12v system off every time you start your engine then you'll understand! :-| Our hab' 12v would stay "live" all the time IF we left it switched on but as I posted earlier,I'm in the habit of always switching it off when travelling......AND back ON again if it's needed when we stop. ;-) So come on now..."count yourselves very lucky" ?...really?..just how hard is it to just press a switch on a control panel (lol) As for "fumbling" about in the dark, doesn't the cab's interior light help?..and even if it doesn't, you're hardly going to get lost ..and when turning on the panel (after endless "fumbling") find yourself over in the east wing.. (lol) Mel..maybe there's something on here that may help?... (lol) http://www.flashdoguk.co.uk/# (..although, if this lack of lights had've been that much of an issue for me,the very least I would've done would've been to temporarily stick up a small, battery powered LED touch light...before then looking at having the wiring modified ) The lack of ANY 12v sockets in the rear of our van("live" or otherwise) , was something I sorted quite easily by wiring in "cigar lighter" socket, just fed(fused) from the leisure battery... When you have been used to having the 12v electrics on all the time previously (on our 3 other vans) to then NOT have it set up that way IS a nuisance. :D After nearly 7 weeks away in the van we were still cursing it when we got home! If it is just a simply relay/bit of wiring that needs altering then it would seem the best solution to get it sorted once and for all, if not then the stick on light will be the next option ... but it won't sort out the water pump though. :-( Maybe we wouldn't get 'lost' in the dark, but I don't fancy tripping over a dog which is quite likely in our van as we've got 3!!! *-) As for a 'live' 12v socket, actually we have wired one above the bed, to use with the TV and laptop at the rear of the van, which is directly wired (fused) to the leisure battery so it now means we can charge stuff on the move if we want to but it would have been much better if it had been possible anyway. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyloft Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 MelB I asked Sargent if there was a hardware or software fix..... The reply from Sargent "Yes, this is by design to meet EMC regulations while driving. All of our systems have this built into the hardware and software as part of their core design. It isn't a company policy to have a van without EMC isolation so unfortunately I am unable to help you in this matter" 8-) 8-) what a crock of >:-) >:-) >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Sounds like they are saying their panels don't meet current EMC regulations in motor vehicles and can't be bothered to make them do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 lennyhb - 2013-07-15 3:06 PM Sounds like they are saying their panels don't meet current EMC regulations in motor vehicles and can't be bothered to make them do so. They are saying the opposite. Their equipment is designed to meet European Regulations so you can hardly blame them for not wanting to disclose a fix that would in effect break the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 If they fully meet the EMC regs why would turning on the panel while driving break the law, all the major European manufacturers allow you to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Sounds a bit 'fishy' to me too! But as my van is still under warranty there's not a lot I can do. *-) Well, I'll have to dig out my stick on battery light and stick it somewhere suitable! :-D I'll also get out some of my sticky 'blobs' to put on the control panel 'buttons' so they are easier to find too. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaleuk Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Did anyone else find a fix for this by any chance? After a month of deciding the best van for us we are due to take delivery of a new accent in a fortnight, but maybe we can still get the dealer to put our deposit towards an adria instead if there is no fix for this flaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Swaleuk - 2013-10-06 10:39 AM Did anyone else find a fix for this by any chance? After a month of deciding the best van for us we are due to take delivery of a new accent in a fortnight, but maybe we can still get the dealer to put our deposit towards an adria instead if there is no fix for this flaw I very much doubt if the dealer will change your van now as he'll have had to order it from the manufacturer so will be committed to 'purchasing' it. Plus, I wouldn't let this stop me buying the accent if that's what I wanted - surely there are other things that made you want the Accent instead of the Adria???? 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Swaleuk - 2013-10-06 10:39 AM Did anyone else find a fix for this by any chance? After a month of deciding the best van for us we are due to take delivery of a new accent in a fortnight, but maybe we can still get the dealer to put our deposit towards an adria instead if there is no fix for this flaw My opinion for what its worth go for the Adria. Had ours 2.5 years with no issues....There are other makes available mind you. Particular favorites of mine are Possl/Globecar and La Strada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Swaleuk - 2013-10-06 10:39 AM Did anyone else find a fix for this by any chance? After a month of deciding the best van for us we are due to take delivery of a new accent in a fortnight, but maybe we can still get the dealer to put our deposit towards an adria instead if there is no fix for this flaw I would not mess about with the wiring if you don't know what you are doing and neither would I let anyone else mess about with it on a new van under warranty even if they do claim to know what they are doing. So no fix, but a good easy to do and cost effective work around is the addition of a second leisure battery. If you really feel you need more power the addition of a solar panel and regulator with split charge relay will help keep both leisure and engine batteries topped up even when not in use which is handy in winter. Thousands of motorhomers manage perfectly well with what I agree is not an ideal situation but it works for most of us who are used to it and just live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homenaway Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Swaleuk - 2013-10-06 10:39 AMDid anyone else find a fix for this by any chance? After a month of deciding the best van for us we are due to take delivery of a new accent in a fortnight, but maybe we can still get the dealer to put our deposit towards an adria instead if there is no fix for this flaw Our 2009 Adria Twin does the same !! The habitation electrics turnoff when the engine runs. It has a Schaudt Electroblok controller. I think it is a requirement for any van that has an "NCC approved" badge. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Our 2011 Adria Twin SP, control panel stays on when engine started...electric step retracts. It's LHD bought new in Germany.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 On our Globecar the 12v can be left on whilst the engine is running, it's a very simple panel with three rocker switches, one to switch on/off and two others to check batteries and tanks, the Sargent panel appears to be overly complicated IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Mel B - 2013-07-12 7:27 PM Keithl - 2013-07-12 7:10 AM Hi Heyloft, You can download wiring diagrams from The Sargent website... Link They only go to 2010 but I would imagine not too many things should have changed between 2010 and your 'van at 2011. Unfortunately they don't seem to go into enough detail on charging relays and habitation isolation relays for what you want so I think you may have to speak to someone there directly. Keith. Keith, thanks for the link, I actually had a good shuftie last night for about half an hour trying in vain to find the unit (it's a EC462), diagrams, technical info .... basically anything, to see if there was mention of a relay etc but there isn't anything, all Sargents site gives is a link to a general pdf showing the buttons and what they do, and a little bit of other info, the best I could come up with elswhere is a picture of it! http://www.sargentltd.co.uk/EC450%20System%20Instructions%20Issue%202.pdf Thought it would have been quicker for you to shout at Sargents over the garden fence for a solution, Mel >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Homenaway - 2013-10-06 5:27 PMOur 2009 Adria Twin does the same !! The habitation electrics turnoff when the engine runs. It has a Schaudt Electroblok controller.I think it is a requirement for any van that has an "NCC approved" badge.Steve Not surprising then NCC = National Caravan Council.As I said earlier a hangover from caravans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gram Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 My Symbol has a different take on this issue. It allows the habitation electrics to stay on when the engine is started but they shut down when the vehicle moves. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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