Autosleeper Symbol Tyres

[whbs]

Had the misfortune to have a blowout on a rear tyre a couple of days ago. Everything OK but have decided that, since the van is now seven years old and although only done 27,000 miles and just passed the MOT so tyres are legal, I'm going to replace all four tyres.

Anyone any ideas on which would be the best make and type for a quiet softer ride? :-> Thanks in advance.

[Bulletguy]

I recently had an advisory on two tyres on my van. Decided to get them replaced before coming away on holiday and went to a Tyre/Exhaust fitter i've used many times. He took one look at the tyres and despite the good tread depth they all needed replacing as the tread had begun to separate from the case wall. Not easy to spot with naked eye unless you are a tyre fitter but he showed me what to look for.

 

Another point he noted, each tyre was five years old and for MH's or Caravans that's considered the 'life limit' irrespective of mileage (which is often low compared to that of a car).

 

As for the best tyre brand, any reputable fitter will best advise you rather than peoples personal opinions.

[Tracker]

Bulletguy - 2013-07-19 1:21 PM

As for the best tyre brand, any reputable fitter will best advise you rather than peoples personal opinions.

 

Sorry, but unless the tyre fitter is a close friend I would doubt that very much?

 

Tyre fitters should be able to advise on suitability of different brands and sizes - but given the knowledge of most tyre fitters that I have spoken to in recent years I even doubt that!

 

Tyre fitters are very much ruled by availability and profit levels!

 

Whereas personal recommendation is base on actual experience.

[Derek Uzzell]

whbs

 

I'm guessing that your 2006 Symbol has 215/70 R15C 109 tyres.

 

Tyres nowadays are labelled to provide a buyer with comparative data that includes 'noisiness' information.

 

http://www.blackcircles.com/general/tyre-labelling

 

A recent test by "Promobil" magazine of six 215/70 R15C tyre patterns using Ducato panel vans as the test vehicle revealed 'noisiness' figures varying from 71.7dB to 73.4dB. The outright winner of the test was Hankook's Vantra LT RA18 tyre. This was the 2nd quietist (Continental's "VancoCamper" was the most quiet), but was exceptionally good in the majority of the other tests carried out, particularly those involving wet road surfaces. Price is pretty reasonable too http://tinyurl.com/pw5dzkv

 

A tyre's effect on ride quality will primarily depend on the inflation pressures chosen. If you take any tyre and inflate it more than is needed for safety, the vehicle's ride quality will suffer. So, if you wanted as soft a ride as possible, you'd need to inflate your tyres as low as could safely be done.

 

I doubt if it's possible to say with any certainty that (given the same inflation pressure) one 215/70 R15C 109 tyre will produce a softer ride than another. Having said that, one might reasonably think that 'camping-car' tyres (Michelin's "Agilis Camping", Continental's "VancoCamper" or Pirelli's "Chrono Camper") might, due to their reinforced sidewall construction, produce a harder ride for the same inflation pressure than a 'white van' tyre like the Vantra LT RA18.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I have standard van tyres, Kumho tyres, three years now and wearing well, and as long as they are rated correctly for your van why have anything else than a standard van tyre, as for the quietest ride mine are almost silent, but only on French motorways, noise in my experience has far more to do with road surfaces than the actual tyres, I used to run on Michelin campers, but they were as hard as a rock, and just as noisy or quite depending how you look at it, and cost an additional £70 a tyre.

 

As for getting good unbiased advice from a tyre fitter, that would take a lot of box ticking, and call me a cynic but like most things it's hard to escape profit margin considerations. ;-)

[Tracker]

Our panel van also has ordinary van tyres and as any panel van does not have the extra overhangs top, sides and back that allegedly put the extra strain on the tyres I too would not buy camping car tyres when I need new 'uns.

 

Our tyres are Pirelli Chrono 225/70 R15 and they certainly fit within the wheel arches OK but that assumes the wheel rims on your van are the same offset? Probably are but it might pay to ask Peugeot?

 

I have nothing to compare with as our last vans have all been coachbuilts which tend to have more road noise and very different ride and handling characteristics anyway but I am happy with the grip, ride and noise levels of the Pirellis.

[Basil]

Just, well this year, had Avon Avanza AV9's 215/70 15 van tyres fitted to ours and they are exceptional, quieter and seem to ride and stop better than the previous Michelins and Goodyears and without doubt better in the wet. They were cheaper and best of all they are UK made. Avon gave me recomended tyre pressures for my axle loadings by return of e-mail.

 

Got them from

 

http://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/

 

who were the cheapest for suppled and fitted at the time (currently £91.70 supply and fitted) and the best bit they were fitted by my local National Tyres who had quoted me nearly £250 more!

 

You pays your money and takes your choice.

 

Bas

 

P.S. We took the oppertunity of having a TPMS fitted at the same time as we had suffered our second blow out in France last year and this device would have saved us a lot of hastle. having used it now for around 12 months I would advise anyone to have it fitted amazing peace of mind. We bought

 

http://www.tyresensors.com/product/107/Tyresure-Retro-Fit-TPMS-Kit-4-wheel-unit

 

though significantly cheaper on E-bay and National Tyres also supply and fit.

 

http://www.national.co.uk/tyre-pressure-monitoring.aspx

[Keith T]

Have just arranged for 4 new tyres to be fitted to my 2007 Burstner Marano as front ones were less tread than I am happy with, and rear ones the originals and though tread Ok, showing signed of age and cracking on sidewall. Have checked around, both internet and direct with local outlets, and have got best deal from National Tyres. I am going for Michelin Agilis Camping tyres, 215/70 R15 Q rating, as having used these (and others) previously, find them the best overall.

What is - and always has been with the camping specification tyres - difficult is the supply, and if your local stockist does not have them, there are none in the country for the next few weeks. I have apparently obtained 4 of the remaining 5 for immediate fitting.

[Derek Uzzell]

This is a classic example of how internet forums function.

 

There is nobody on this forum able to provide expert objective advice on the comparative merits of the makes of tyre fitted to motorhomes. I say this with absolute certainty and I include myself in the statement.

 

For an Auto-Sleeper Symbol it’s reasonable to take the view that fitting ‘camping-car’ tyres (eg. Michelin “Agilis Camping”) would be overkill. Having concluded that ‘white van’ tyres will be adequate, the next logical step would be to decide not which tyre would be ‘best’ (whatever that means) but which makes of tyre would be best avoided. Unfortunately, I can’t advise on that, other than to say that I’d not want to put super-cheap Chinese made/Chinese-branded tyres on my own motorhome.

 

The Promobil test involved 4 ‘white van’ tyres made in China, Korea, Italy and France and priced (respectively) at €76.50, €95, €98 and €127. The tyre-pattern rated only “Passable” by Promobil was the €98 Italian-made ("Marangoni") one, whereas the €76.50 Chinese-made tyre was rated “Good”. The €127 French-made tyre was rated “Satisfactory” and the €95 Korean-made tyre (Hankook Lantra LT) was rated “Very Good”.

 

This strongly suggests that the price of a tyre and/or the perceived reputation of the manufacturer (the €127 French tyre was the recently-released Michelin “Agilis+”) is not a reliable indicator of a tyre’s real-world performance. I’m tempted to say “Everybody knows that”, but it may well not be the case.

 

As I said in another thread, Promobil only tested a small number of tyre-patterns and, despite the Hankook tyre coming out top, a Kumho, Pirelli or Avon tyre MIGHT be equal or better. But, as those tyres weren't tested, nobody is a position to say this and be believed.

 

A sample GOOGLE-search http://tinyurl.com/kju66dz relating to 215/70 R15C tyres (which I’ve guessed whbs’s Symbol has) returned 16 possibilities with a load-index of 109 (which is what you'd probably need for a Symbol).

 

The asking-price varied from £57.95 to £130.15 and (regarding ‘quietness’) from 70dB to 74dB. This search did not retrieve a Kumho or a Hankook tyre and, based purely on the tyre labelling, one might conclude that the Pirelli tyre might be reasonably fuel-efficient, quiet and good in the wet (but expensive), while the Avon tyre would be better priced, less fuel-efficient, equally good in the wet, but significantly noisier.

 

It’s likely that whbs (Bill) will have cost well up on his tyre-choice priority list. (I certainly would!) I suspect too that, even if there were a tyre that could definitely provide a quieter ride than all the rest, if that tyre were very expensive Bill would be reluctant to buy it (as would I).

 

Personal recommendation may be OK for some things, but, if one forum member is recommending Kumho tyres, another Avon tyres and a third saying his Pirelli tyres are fine, how will Bill measure the relative value of each recommendation?

 

I don’t think ‘quietness’ should go before safety and, if independently-tested wet-road performance (most tyres perform well enough on dry surfaces) and a reasonable price are important criteria, one might as well choose Hankook’s Vantra LT. Anyway, that’s what I’d do...

[Robinhood]

.........and I'd reiterate the implied advice (given really only in passing above) to ensure that the tyres are running at the appropriate pressures for the actual axle loads, which will not necessarily be the pressures quoted for the vehicle in the handbook or on the door jamb.

 

If this allows a reduction in pressure from that currently used, then whatever tyres are fitted, the comfort and noise levels are likely to be improved.

 

A trip fully loaded to the weighbridge and measurement of the axle loads is thus on the cards, followed by an enquiry to the tyre manufacturer for the correct pressures.

 

It would be interesting to know Bill's current pressures, along with the tyre size and max axle weights from the vehicle data plate, to initially assess whether there is likely to be any leeway for reduction.

 

 

[Tracker]

Derek Uzzell - 2013-07-20 9:07 AM

There is nobody on this forum able to provide expert objective advice on the comparative merits of the makes of tyre fitted to motorhomes. I say this with absolute certainty and I include myself in the statement.

.

 

Absolutely right Derek!

 

Other than by professionally organised comparison tests with scientific measurements of all the parameters there is no way to tell the good from the bad and unfortunately, but unsurprisingly, nobody does a complete test of all tyres available at the time.

 

To compound the misery makers constantly change their tyre compounds, tread patterns and names or just rename existing tyres which adds to the difficulty of choice.

 

I suspect that in the real world of actual use the differences between most mainstream tyres is minimal and it then comes down to the buyer's own likes and trust. Some swear by Michelin, for example, whereas some swear at them!

 

Tyre tests often appear in motoring magazines and Which but they are generally for car tyres but the same makers appear in the best buy tables again and again, and these do tend to be the big names. Sure commercial van and camping car rated tyres are different to car tyres but maybe we can assume that the maker's experience and integrity also applies to their other products? Hopefully?

 

I too would never buy any unknown brand of tyre but I would not rule out a Michelin (for example) just because it said made in China - assuming it was not a fake - but how would you tell?

[Bulletguy]

Tracker - 2013-07-19 2:00 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2013-07-19 1:21 PM

As for the best tyre brand, any reputable fitter will best advise you rather than peoples personal opinions.

 

Sorry, but unless the tyre fitter is a close friend I would doubt that very much?

 

Tyre fitters should be able to advise on suitability of different brands and sizes - but given the knowledge of most tyre fitters that I have spoken to in recent years I even doubt that!

 

Tyre fitters are very much ruled by availability and profit levels!

 

Whereas personal recommendation is base on actual experience.

 

Tracker - 2013-07-20 10:56 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2013-07-20 9:07 AM

There is nobody on this forum able to provide expert objective advice on the comparative merits of the makes of tyre fitted to motorhomes. I say this with absolute certainty and I include myself in the statement.

.

 

Absolutely right Derek!

 

 

Interesting.

 

I did mention the word reputable Tracker, meaning those who have been in the industry some time, gained wide knowledge and preferably a Fitter you have used for some time.....such as in my case.

 

He has never sought to sell me something I didn't need, or the most expensive, but always advised me on the best tyre type for whatever vehicle.

 

Some people with performance cars will choose a soft compound tyre against a harder one. The hard one will last longer but give less grip than a softer one.....which of course will also wear out quicker. But these are known "tyre basics" and personal choices.....also not particularly relevant to MH use.

 

From your comments Tracker i'd suggest you shop around more till you've found a decent Tyre fitter.

 

 

[Tracker]

Bulletguy - 2013-07-20 11:58 AM

From your comments Tracker i'd suggest you shop around more till you've found a decent Tyre fitter.

 

Sorry, but I find that a rather silly and ill conceived observation.

 

Trust in any trade operative or company takes time and experience to build up and most of us do not buy very many tyres these days unless we run a fleet or keep our vehicles for many years.

 

Tyre fitters are exactly that and whilst I would not for one minute detract from their abilities and skills, unless they too run their own fleet of vehicles they can only be influenced by A] what their bosses tell them to say and B] by what returning customers tell them and I see no reason to change my view that A has more influence than B.

 

Talk by all means but, as with forum opinions, take what is learned as an opinion not as gospel and make your own choice based on a balanced view.

[Bulletguy]

Tracker - 2013-07-20 12:32 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2013-07-20 11:58 AM

From your comments Tracker i'd suggest you shop around more till you've found a decent Tyre fitter.

 

Sorry, but I find that a rather silly and ill conceived observation.

 

Trust in any trade operative or company takes time and experience to build up and most of us do not buy very many tyres these days unless we run a fleet or keep our vehicles for many years.

 

Talk by all means but, as with forum opinions, take what is learned as an opinion not as gospel and make your own choice based on a balanced view.

 

OK.......use one of ill repute and buy the most expensive tyres possible. *-)

 

You can put your Prefects cap 'n badge away now. *-)

 

 

[Basil]

Bulletguy - 2013-07-20 11:58 AM

 

 

Some people with performance cars will choose a soft compound tyre against a harder one. The hard one will last longer but give less grip than a softer one.....which of course will also wear out quicker. But these are known "tyre basics" and personal choices.....also not particularly relevant to MH use.

 

 

In light of some previous posts it surely goes without saying that any persons comment on this,or any other, forum is 'their opinion' even a 'qualified' one that can so often be found to be wrong!!

 

However to get back to your post.

 

Although you have said ".....also not particularly relevant to MH use." I do believe that what you have said here is very relevent to MH use!

 

IMO I would definately sacrifice longevity from a hard tyre and go for a soft one for better stopping and grip as well as quietness (a very important requirement for me), particularly in the MHome scenario, as most MHome tyres are at their point of change well before they wear out due to the, generally, lower milages that they are used over.

 

As already said just my opinion.

 

Bas

[whbs]

Firstly - Thank you to the many people to replied to my query

Secondly - Apologies - I didn't intend for World War III to break out!

I'll take the comments on board. I had anticipated spending a fortune on "Camping" tyres, but the general consensus is that this is not cost effective - or quiet. So it seems sensible that I stick with the type which were on the van from new - Avon.

I have obtained prices from a few dealers and will check a few more before purchase but the cheapest so far is that recommended online at Tyre Shopper. This is indeed hundreds of pounds cheaper than National Tyres - who would actually do the fitting and it appears that they are owned by National Tyres. When I phoned NT for a price and balked at the quote - they actually advised that I contact Tyre Shopper to "save a lot of money."

Thank you again for all the advice - I am very grateful.

Bill.

 

[Mrs T]

Even the F1 car racing experts get their tyre choices wrong ref the recent racing where several tyres failed.

[Brian Kirby]

whbs - 2013-07-20 10:40 PM......................I have obtained prices from a few dealers and will check a few more before purchase but the cheapest so far is that recommended online at Tyre Shopper. This is indeed hundreds of pounds cheaper than National Tyres - who would actually do the fitting and it appears that they are owned by National Tyres. When I phoned NT for a price and balked at the quote - they actually advised that I contact Tyre Shopper to "save a lot of money."

Thank you again for all the advice - I am very grateful.

Bill.

But - do check beforehand whether you can actually get the tyres fitted if, as seems the case, you are considering buying them direct. I have experienced refusal (sorry Sir, company policy), and reluctance to fit, customer supplied tyres - even though the tyres in question were brand new, had their original labels, were fresh stock, and the dealers in question had no stock and could not source the make/type/size required. If you can find a willing fitter, and you decide to buy direct, I found Camskill to be very good on price and supply.

[Basil]

Brian Kirby - 2013-07-21 11:18 PM

But - do check beforehand whether you can actually get the tyres fitted if, as seems the case, you are considering buying them direct. I have experienced refusal (sorry Sir, company policy), and reluctance to fit, customer supplied tyres - even though the tyres in question were brand new, had their original labels, were fresh stock, and the dealers in question had no stock and could not source the make/type/size required. If you can find a willing fitter, and you decide to buy direct, I found Camskill to be very good on price and supply.

 

This is not a problem with Tyre Shopper, your tyres are delivered from TS to your nominated National Tyres depot and you go there at your agreed appointment time and they fit them, all arranged on the website at the time of purchase and all in the purchase price. Simples!

 

Bas

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Similar to Blackcircles.com, who I have used in the past, and there are also mobile fitters and suppliers that will come to you ( unless like me your in the back of beyond . ;-)

[whbs]

RESULT!!!

 

Carried on talking to Tyre Companies before ordering and one was MCC in Leeds who recommended something completely different. Hankook tyres. When I said I had never heard of them, they said that they were original equipment on models of BMW. Ford VW etc. Feeling rather sceptical, I wandered around the net to see what was said - and was impressed. Decent companies these days show the fuel efficiency, stopping distance in rain and noise levels in Db. These tyres showed up well (Hankook Vantra LT) and even the noise levels were three Db less than the Avon I had originally decided on.

 

To cut a long story short, they fitted four new ones and we went for a drive around Leeds (must be the worst roads in the UK) and then a trip to Cleveland and back.

,

To say we are impressed is the understatement. The whole driving experience is much, much quieter and the ride is much more comfortable - not quite as good as our last motorhome on a VW chassis but a really significant improvement on the original Symbol tyres.

 

Asking the question on the forum was a sensible thing to do since it made me think carefully instead of rushing out (as I normally do) and buy quick replacements.

 

Thanks again to all who contributed advice.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

whbs - 2013-07-31 4:19 PM

 

RESULT!!!

 

Carried on talking to Tyre Companies before ordering and one was MCC in Leeds who recommended something completely different. Hankook tyres. When I said I had never heard of them, they said that they were original equipment on models of BMW....

 

Hankook's Vantra LT tyres were mentioned earlier in this thread. In a posting of 19 July it was highlighted that they had 'won' a recent Promobil comparative test and, in a posting of 20 July, that the test had given them a "Very Good" rating. How could you have overlooked this? ;-)

 

It's perhaps worth adding that replacing old tyres with new ones should (assuming the old/new tyres are of a similar type) be expected to result in a quieter ride initially. The vehicle's steering will also be lighter. The tread of new tyres is shiny and (unlike the competition tyres used on F1 racing cars) will produce poor grip until the shine is worn off. So hard braking and spirited cornering should be avoided until some mileage has been covered. See

 

http://www.firststop-tyreexperts.co.uk/running-in-your-new-tyres.aspx

 

As I suggested earlier in this thread, ride quality will be more affected by the inflation-pressures chosen than the tyres themselves. One would not anticipate a 215/70 R15C 109 Hankook Vantra LT RA18 inflated to, say, 60psi to produce a significantly superior ride to a same-size/specification Avon Avanza, Kumho 857, Continental Vanco-2, etc. also inflated to 60psi. If your Symbol's ride quality is now noticeably softer than it was with its previous Avons, you may want to check what pressures MCC have used for your new tyres.

 

 

 

 

[Symbol Owner]

Hi,Bill (whbs),

 

Just a 'postscript' to the above. I am sorry that I came late to this 'thread' as I was away in the 'van without internet access when you started it.

As you can see, I own a 2002 model Autosleeper Symbol, which we purchased in Feb. 2010. ( Just two previous owners and 37,000 miles 'on the clock')

Early in its career with us, we, too had a blowout, and, on getting that tyre replaced, were advised that, as all of the original (Vanco) tyres were still on the 'van, we should replace them all, as you have just done.

I originally requested Michelin Argilis specialist motorhome tyres, but was advised (by the manager of the tyre specialist -- a motorhome owner himself ) that these were an uneccessary expense, so we replaced them with Avons, with which we have been perfectly happy -- except --the valves.

Our original blowout was a slow release of air caused by the failure of one of the original 'ordinary' rubber valves after a spell of motorway driving on a warm day -- over 200+ miles at 60-70 m.p.h. (yes it is legal in a 'van as light/small as ours Bill!) On arriving at our destination, (our driver having noticed no apparent handling 'feedback') we discovered the 'flat' on the rear nearside tyre, due to said valve failure.

A few weeks ago, on returning from a spot of 'R&R' on the Gower peninsula, we again discovered a valve failure on reaching our destination -- it finally 'died' on our drive -- again after about 200+miles of motorway driving at similar speeds as above, on a hot day. The'flat' was on the nearside front tyre this time, but again, presumably as it was a slow release, the driver was not aware of it during the journey.

Being quite worried by this, and having read 'posts' on here regarding high pressure valves, I have had my 'standard' valves replaced with the high pressure variety with brass stems. As I have been running the tyres at the recommended 60 p.s.i., it has obviously been 'too close for comfort' in the conditions that we ran the plain rubber valves in.

 

I am sorry that I have only just found out about your predicament and hope that this advice is useful to you. The valves cost me about £14.00. each -- not too much for the 'peace of mind', I feel.

Derek may have some wise words to say on this subject -- as he has done before.

 

Cheers, happy campervanning!

 

Colin.

 

P.S. 'Hankooks' were a completely new name to me until a regular contributor to these discussions, 'Pelmetman' told of fitting them to his motorhome, just after I had chosen my Avons. I hope they continue to be as satisfactory as you describe!

 

C.

 

[whbs]

Sorry Derek - I either missed it or blanked it as I had never heard of them! Senility!!